Germany Germany - Nuremberg, WhtMale &WhtFem, 25-40, charred both near A3 motorway, maybe from Italy, May'83

[Romulus]

http://www.chilhavisto.rai.it/dl/cl...Set-43824b97-bd52-4e25-8ada-7932c55c8029.html

Two charred bodies were found on May 1, 1983 in Germany, in the section between Erlangen and Nuremberg of the A3 motorway. Since then the German police has never stopped investigating and now has asked the audience of "Who has seen it?" to solve the mystery of their identity and their violent death. The man was about 1.65 tall and probably wore a mustache or a bit of a beard, while the woman had a height of 1.58 and slightly grizzled hair. Both were between 25 and 40 years old. The woman had undergone surgery to remove the appendix and had given birth at least once in her life. The clothes they wore were of Italian brand. Both wore a gold necklace with an owl or perhaps an owl pendant, made by a goldsmith from Arezzo. It is presumed that they were husband and wife because they brought to the left ring finger two distinct faiths, printed in Arezzo and Bassano del Grappa engraved with the same date: "3-4-1981". Who were they? Why did not anyone look for them for all these years? Does anyone recognize their jewels or beliefs or do you remember having witnessed their marriage?

 

[Al Ka]

Wow Romulus, thank you for posting this case. Never heard of it.

Everything points to Italy. I wonder if marriage details are possible to search there the same way you can search it in US or UK. That is one very strong lead.

 

[LucyOso]

Tan k you for this post!

 

[Elainera]

I don't know how large they are but the owl pendants could be bottle openers. Wedding gifts? Maybe they owned a bar.

 

[Elainera]

Apparently LE has an indication that they might have been married in either Bavaria or Hessen. They sent requests to all registry offices in those states to check marriages on Apr 3, 1981.

Kann die Kirche bei Mordermittlung helfen?: EKHN ǀ Evangelische Kirche in Hessen und Nassau

 

[Elainera]

There was also a glove found at the crime scene, one of these large gloves used for work, that was also traced to Italy, to a village not far from where the jewellry was made.

Doppelmord an der A3: Spur nach Franken?

 

[Elainera]

Btw the Schengen region did not exist yet in 1983. If they were Italian they would have needed a visa to enter Germany, and vice versa.

 

[Elainera]

There was also a glove found at the crime scene, one of these large gloves used for work, that was also traced to Italy, to a village not far from where the jewellry was made.

Doppelmord an der A3: Spur nach Franken?

Can't edit anymore. Just wanted to add that this article has a (low quality) photo of the crime scene at the top.

I don't think this was a planned murder. This is next to a highway, out in the open, a risky place a killer would not have chosen. The couple was bludgeoned with something heavy, likely a tool or tire iron, which also doesn't look like planned to me. Weapon of opportunity.

In a German forum I saw other photos of the crime scene that unfortunately I can't find in msm. In one of them the woman is shown, her skirt has ridden up over her torso, which might indicate a prior sexual assault.

Did they pick up an evil hitchhiker who then took off with their car?

It was found that the woman gave birth at least once. What happened to her child? Was it present when the parents were killed? Was it abducted?

 

[Elainera]

35 Jahre nach Doppelmord an A3: Neue Spur nach Süditalien




This article says that an employee at a restaurant not far from where the couple was found remembers that they had eaten there hours earlier. So apparently the child was not with them.

 

[Elainera]

Long and detailed article from March 2018.

http://www.nordbayern.de/region/nue...ord-an-a3-neue-spur-nach-suditalien-1.7191768

Detective drawing of the crime scene:



Timeline:
30 April, just before midnight: the couple is seen at a nearby restaurant.
1 May, 1.40 am: the woman's Rolex watch stopped (possibly damaged during the attack)
1 May, 3.30 am: a passing motorist reports the fire

 

[Triss]

Thanks for posting about this case! I've never heard of it. My family lives not far from Nuremberg, I wonder if this case received national attention.

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

It was found that the woman gave birth at least once. What happened to her child? Was it present when the parents were killed? Was it abducted?

Just keep in mind that she only showed signs of giving birth to a child. Let me elaborate that: A child can be adopted away, in foster care, been stillborn, or raised by others (like other family members or taken care of by friends); she could've had her child prior to meeting her husband and have nothing to do with it after birth, just to mention a few. There are several scenarios here. My point is that it isn't necessarily a child out there, waiting for their parents to come home.

 

[Elainera]

Just keep in mind that she only showed signs of giving birth to a child. Let me elaborate that: A child can be adopted away, in foster care, been stillborn, or raised by others (like other family members or taken care of by friends); she could've had her child prior to meeting her husband and have nothing to do with it after birth, just to mention a few. There are several scenarios here. My point is that it isn't necessarily a child out there, waiting for their parents to come home.

Agree. These are all possible scenarios.

 

[Romulus]

There is a small but important novelty in this case: the Italian transmission Chi l'ha visto? saw it deals with the case, has received a phone call from an Italian immigrant who lives in Germany, where the woman says that the two were called Franco and Franca, and that the two had a daughter who mysteriously disappeared, of whom nothing is known any more; the woman stated that she worked for them and that the two lived in Frankfurt.

This is the audio in Italian

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155507093328001

P.s: I'm Italian and I tried to translate for you.

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

So, a possible scenario could be child trafficing, and the parents came upon bad folks trying to get their kid back? Or kidnapping? Filicide? This case suddenly became a whole lot darker (and it was already pretty dark!)

---------

Btw, thank you so much for translating, Romulus!

 

[Elainera]

Thanks Romulus! I saw this mentioned in the German forum but had no msm source for the story so couldn't bring it over here. It's an interesting theory and quite a possible scenario imo.

Still doesn't explain though how they got murdered, if they were in fact Franco and Franca.

 

[Romulus]

Other info: the name of alleged daughter of this couple is maybe Francesca

 

[Bit of hope]

Thanks Romulus, for bringing this case to our attention/to WS. It's a very intriguing case. Your knowledge of Italian becomes valuable too as yourself. Hug!

 

[Bit of hope]

Long and detailed article from March 2018.

35 Jahre nach Doppelmord an A3: Neue Spur nach Süditalien

Detective drawing of the crime scene:

View attachment 157003

Timeline:
30 April, just before midnight: the couple is seen at a nearby restaurant.
1 May, 1.40 am: the woman's Rolex watch stopped (possibly damaged during the attack)
1 May, 3.30 am: a passing motorist reports the fire

Thanks, Elainera...should we translate it? They were hit against the head before sat on fire.....Wondering if this could be done by one killer....there were probably more people involved. And imo it wasn't a robbery....they would have taken the Rolex...wouldn't they?

 

[Bit of hope]

Long and detailed article from March 2018.

35 Jahre nach Doppelmord an A3: Neue Spur nach Süditalien

Detective drawing of the crime scene:

View attachment 157003

Timeline:
30 April, just before midnight: the couple is seen at a nearby restaurant.
1 May, 1.40 am: the woman's Rolex watch stopped (possibly damaged during the attack)
1 May, 3.30 am: a passing motorist reports the fire

Ok, here we go.

35 years after the double murder on A3: new track leads to South Italy
Offender killed a married couple at Tennenlohe and lit them after - 05.02.2018 05:11 am

ERLANGEN - It has been 35 years, when on the highway parking lot two people were set on fire and burned ablaze at the highway parking lot "Weißer Graben" at Tennenlohe. To this day, nobody knows who the two murder victims are. Now investigations are refreshed. There is a specific reference/lead from southern Italy.




Almost 35 years ago, police and fire services were sent to to the Autobahn parking lot "Weißer Graben"on the A3. The forces made a grisly find: they encountered two dead persons, whose body's were burned badly. To this day, it is not clear who the murder victims are. photo © Günter Distler
Klaus Bauer, in those days a young policeman of the Erlanger police force, helped the homicide-detectives, searched the scene of the crime with colleagues, measured it. Today, the 56-year-old leads the investigation into this mysterious case, where the victims are not identified until today and there is no trace of the murderer. "Mid-80s the investigation were stalled", he says. They were resumed in 2000 - without success - and in 2014 the case was resigned to him.

What is known so far: the two murder victims were a married couple from Italy. Wedding rings, an OWL pendant, the wrist watch of women and clothes that were produced and sold in Italy, only in the Vicenza region. Before midnight, on 30 April 1983, they were seen at the resting place of Aurach on the A3. An employee remembered that the two ate something. They were found burned into the grass hours later, only a few kilometres away from the resting place of Aurach. Their killer had beaten them with a blunt object before they were set on fire. The offender then poured gasoline over his victims in the car park and lit them. Particularly cruel: The woman, between 25 and 35-year-old still was alive at this time. The coroner later found out that the woman, with height of 1.60 meter, had given birth at least once.

Detectives who investigated the wedding rings, in which the digits 3-4-81 were engraved - were hoping to find some leads through the wedding date, contacted people in Italy. Without any result. Some didn't respond at all, Bauer reported. For more then a year Erlangen detectives asked churches and offices in Bayern and Hessen to look at their records. Hessen because they suspect that the pair was underway from Hessen to the south. "Maybe they didn't even life in their mother country. In the early 80s there were still many Italian migrant workers, who lived in Germany", says Bauer. But even this step brought no results.

Rolex stopped at 1:40
Investigators assume that the location of the dead on the highway parking along the highway A3 does not coincide with the scene of the crime (timeline). They think they know when the brutal beating on the pair came down: the Rolex watch of the woman stopped exactly at 1:40. "The Rolex had an anchor damage that certainly could have been caused by the blows," the Nürnberger Nachrichten quoted a police spokesman at the time.

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