Germany Germany - Nuremberg, WhtMale &WhtFem, 25-40, charred both near A3 motorway, maybe from Italy, May'83

[Bit of hope]

Timeline....couple was seen before midnight at a rest room eating something, watch of the woman stopped at 1:40 after midnight.....body's were found on fire on parking lot approx. 5:11 after midnight.

 

[Bit of hope]

Could there have been a mistaken identity? Just a guess. Is there any indication about the age of their child (daughter?)

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

Timeline....couple was seen before midnight at a rest room eating something, watch of the woman stopped at 1:40 after midnight.....body's were found on fire on parking lot approx. 5:11 after midnight.

FYI: April 30th 1983 was a Saturday, May 1st a Sunday. This could explain why they were at a restaurant at midnight. Was there any activity, events, etc. in Nürnberg that weekend?

Could there have been a mistaken identity? Just a guess. Is there any indication about the age of their child (daughter?)

I've thought about that, too. It just seems so random, but reading about the brutality of the attack, I'm leaning towards it being personal. I mean, the killer didn't take Jane Doe's Rolex, so the motive being a theft gone bad seems to be ruled out.
If we assume the daughter was born within wedlock, she could be born sometime after April 1981 (or nine months later...).

 

[Elainera]

Long and detailed article from March 2018.
35 Jahre nach Doppelmord an A3: Neue Spur nach Süditalien

Timeline:
30 April, just before midnight: the couple is seen at a nearby restaurant.
1 May, 1.40 am: the woman's Rolex watch stopped (possibly damaged during the attack)
1 May, 3.30 am: a passing motorist reports the fire

Timeline....couple was seen before midnight at a rest room eating something, watch of the woman stopped at 1:40 after midnight.....body's were found on fire on parking lot approx. 5:11 after midnight.

I had done a timeline according to the article above. The fire was reported at 3.30 am.

 

[Jennifer17]

Could it be Charles Sobhraj?
Charles Sobhraj - Wikipedia

 

[Bit of hope]

I had done a timeline according to the article above. The fire was reported at 3.30 am.

achhhh....sorry, was so busy with translating that I "overlooked" it.

 

[Bit of hope]

Could it be Charles Sobhraj?
Charles Sobhraj - Wikipedia

He was convicted and jailed in India from 1976 to 1997, so I guess not. But Wikipedia is not a real source.

 

[Elainera]

achhhh....sorry, was so busy with translating that I "overlooked" it.

No problem Bit of Hope Thank you for translating the article!

 

[Jennifer17]

He was convicted and jailed in India from 1976 to 1997, so I guess not. But Wikipedia is not a real source.

No, that is true about Wiki, and he was such a chameleon that who knows if he was really there or paid someone else to serve his sentence?

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

There doesn't seem to be any updates on the A3 Double Murder Does, but I found this article dated a couple of years back, which also explains a lot of the investigation of the German LE the recent years.

Ungeklärter Doppelmord: Warum vermisst sie niemand?

@Romulus, are there any updates from the Italian POV?

 

[Bit of hope]

I wonder if they ever learned something from the Rolex serial number. Maybe it was registered somewhere.

 

[Romulus]

There doesn't seem to be any updates on the A3 Double Murder Does, but I found this article dated a couple of years back, which also explains a lot of the investigation of the German LE the recent years.

Ungeklärter Doppelmord: Warum vermisst sie niemand?

@Romulus, are there any updates from the Italian POV?

Nothing news, sad!

 

[Vern]

I wonder if they ever learned something from the Rolex serial number. Maybe it was registered somewhere.

I was just thinking the same thing. I am just seeing this case tonight and read the bit about the thought they may have been Italian Immigrant workers subject to a robbery and murder. I think the fact the Rolex was still at the scene rules both of those ideas out. Even in the mid-80s, they were expensive and an immigrant worker is not going to be spending their hard-earned money on that.

I'm interested in the witness who allegedly saw them eating at a rest stop around midnight. Were they alone!? Were they driving!? They were found a couple of kms away, so they must have had a vehicle ... or were travelling with someone.

Very strange case.

 

[Romulus]

This man and this woman are probably from Southern Italy, perhaps Calabria or Sicily; maybe they could be linked to the Mafia or the Ndrangheta, maybe their killing is linked to the mafia trafficking, perhaps inconvenient witnesses, it is a hypothesis, the presence of the Italian mafias there in Germany is clear enough to recall the shooting in Duisburg a few years ago.

 

[Bit of hope]

This man and this woman are probably from Southern Italy, perhaps Calabria or Sicily; maybe they could be linked to the Mafia or the Ndrangheta, maybe their killing is linked to the mafia trafficking, perhaps inconvenient witnesses, it is a hypothesis, the presence of the Italian mafias there in Germany is clear enough to recall the shooting in Duisburg a few years ago.

My thoughts also, this could have something to do with the mobs. Maybe it was a rip off, they trafficking drugs? Sadly I only see a black screen when I click on your link.

'Ndrangheta - Wikipedia

 

[Romulus]

I only see a black screen when I click on your link.

'Ndrangheta - Wikipedia

Nothing link is my error, sorry!

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Bumping case up for the sake of this poor couple...

 

[Susikatze]

I was a born a day after they were found..

I grew up in Germany but this case is not known at all. Thank you for bumping it up.
Nowadays, most marriage registrations are digitalized, Id again try to ask for records in Italy in the city/surrounding areas the pendants and rings were made in. But it is probably a needle in the haystack.

If they really were Italian migrant workers, it explains why none of their family was looking for them (or maybe they did but back then local authorities did not communicate much with each other internationally). A possible mafia involvement also would explain why German police was cautious to dig more into the case... but simply because they may have been Italian, it does not mean they were killed by the mafia or working for it... very stereotypical.

Another possibility would be that they were just living in Italy but were not Italian. There is a large southeast european community (croatians, serbians, bosnians and roma) in Italy since the 80s.
Nurenberg/Erlangen is a major traffic hub in Germany for people traveling southbound or northbound. They may have had a destination within all of Europe.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Bumping up for the year...