Hotel Cecil Rooftop Access Discussion

[kingsway]

Great video, AlphaWolf.

Perhaps in reference to one of your statements about the lack of video showing roof access via the access panel, the team going to LA in a few days could go to the 15th floor and see if they can identify the ladders to the access panel and show whether the panels are locked.

It would be great if the people who visit the hotel stayed a night (maybe on a Tuesday?) and checked out the 14th, 15th floors and roof to see what kind of activity there is at that time.

 

[Catchew]

I remember somebody saying that. Not very surprising in a hotel like that. Now I can't remember who said it. I was thinking it was those Chinese guys but now I am thinking it was somebody who came here and posted a few times who said that he stayed there the week after she was missing. Does that sound familiar?

Websleuths member Smeinzer stayed there - I believe it was around Feb. 7th - 10th (you can find his posts either in the 1st or 2nd thread). He used the fire escape.
I also believe the Chinese Investigators used the fire escape, not the door. I'll find that in the thread for you.

 

[MesaVerde]

Websleuths member Smeinzer stayed there - I believe it was around Feb. 7th - 10th (you can find his posts either in the 1st or 2nd thread). He used the fire escape.
I also believe the Chinese Investigators used the fire escape, not the door. I'll find that in the thread for you.

Then who was it? Can't remember. But he is totally right that somebody either wrote or said in a video that the alarm wasn't on but I think they said the door was locked. Wait, if the door was locked, then how would they know the alarm wasn't on? Now that doesn't make sense. Am I not remembering correctly now or was I too dense to notice the inconsistency when I first heard or read it?

 

[AlphaWolf]

So do you mean it is only a local alarm and doesn't alert the lobby?

If so, then if the regular residents are used to hearing it because of people going up whenever they feel like it, then they would learn to just ignore it, especially if it isn't even that loud to begin with.

The alarm on the push handle is a local alarm.

If you look at the picture again, the door also has two tiny white boxes on the top left/center of the door/door casing.

that is a magnetic alarm, also serves as the same funtion( when door is opened it sounds an alarm)

- I do not know where that wire ( from the magnetic alarm goes?...to another speaker?....)

- I do not know if it works?.....was it the old system?.....did they have to update the door to meet building code?....

- again...If were to assume...the magnetic alarm on the top corner was the old way of setting off the alarm. Looking at the door, it has a deadbolt cutout that has been covered.

It has a very very cheap ( brass colored) door knob.....but it has a very new looking pushbar alarm E door handle.

they upgraded the alarm to meet the building code.

 

[Catchew]

I remember somebody saying that. Not very surprising in a hotel like that. Now I can't remember who said it. I was thinking it was those Chinese guys but now I am thinking it was somebody who came here and posted a few times who said that he stayed there the week after she was missing. Does that sound familiar?

Here are the posts I was referring to with respect to the Chinese investigators. In the first link they say:

After we finished our investigations of the hotel, me and Brandon decided to go up to the roof to try opening the alarmed roof door. The door was locked and no alarm sounded when we tried opening it.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8946124&postcount=1141"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3[/ame]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8947313&postcount=1265"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3[/ame]

 

[AlphaWolf]

The Chinese investigators said the alarm did not sound when they finally opened the door to go up and take pics.

Originally they found the door but did not want to tempt being discovered by having the alarm sound so they investigated other areas and only when they were done inside the hotel is when they tried the door. Nothing happened so they went up and took the pics and video from the roof

- That does not surprise one bit, They often get propped open by service techs....the 9 volt battery goes out fast.

 

[noodled1]

I remember somebody saying that. Not very surprising in a hotel like that. Now I can't remember who said it. I was thinking it was those Chinese guys but now I am thinking it was somebody who came here and posted a few times who said that he stayed there the week after she was missing. Does that sound familiar?

There's been so many, hard to remember them individually, all kind of glomb together in a big pile...lol

I do remember somebody saying they tried the door and it was unlocked (as it should be per fire codes) and that no alarm sounded. I think there's also been a couple different investigations done too.

 

[noodled1]

- That does not surprise one bit, They often get propped open by service techs....the 9 volt battery goes out fast.

It's like a smoke detector speaker, annoying little shrill thing.

Judging by the graffiti, the beer bottles, the access people had to the roof after her death I think we can assume the hotel isn't all that interested in who goes on the roof

Still amazed that after pulling a body from the tank we have teams of kids with cameras being able to tour the roof top and hotel. One would think they'd ramp up security for at least a month or two.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Here are the posts I was referring to with respect to the Chinese investigators. In the first link they say:



Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

hmm....

me and Brandon decided to go up to the roof

to try opening the alarmed roof door. The door was locked and no alarm sounded when we tried opening it.

I wonder if they tried opening it from the outside?...they went back on the roof?....maybe they climbed up the same way to open it from the roof side.

the door will not open that way...( or someone used something to block the door...it is against code to lock a Emergency exit/panic door)

- also in a previous post, I said the key ( for the keyhole on the push bar)"will turn off the alarm" that is not true on that system. You would have to close the door.

 

[Borris]

hmm....



I wonder if they tried opening it from the outside?...they went back on the roof?....maybe they climbed up the same way to open it from the roof side.

the door will not open that way...( or someone used something to block the door...it is against code to lock a Emergency exit/panic door)

- also in a previous post, I said the key ( for the keyhole on the push bar)"will turn off the alarm" that is not true on that system. You would have to close the door.

I've previously posted the recent photos of the water tanks, which have open hatches.

It's hard for me to accept that a worker who left those lids open, would return through that door and diligently lock it behind him.

But there appears to be a magnetic connection at the top of the door, that is separated from the door alarm. I wonder if it runs a signal to the lobby boys.

 

[four_seasons]

- It would be really good to have a video from the elevator on the 14th floor....walking all the way to the roof access door via the stairway.

- also a video of the security cameras.

there is one around...chinese again...around 9min or so...

 

[AlphaWolf]

I've previously posted the recent photos of the water tanks, which have open hatches.

It's hard for me to accept that a worker who left those lids open, would return through that door and diligently lock it behind him.

But there appears to be a magnetic connection at the top of the door, that is separated from the door alarm. I wonder if it runs a signal to the lobby boys.

- The problem is....the Locking mechanism on the "emergency exit" door will not keep the door locked if you press that bar.

- That key hole is for turning a deadbolt latch....but as soon as you press the push bar it unlocks.

- The door is meant to be locked so no one from the outside can get in....but someone on the inside can always get out.

- The magnetic alarm ( the little white boxes on the top of the door) may also make a sound, not sure if they are attache to a speaker in the lobby?....or they may be the old system?

 

[AlphaWolf]

It's like a smoke detector speaker, annoying little shrill thing.

Judging by the graffiti, the beer bottles, the access people had to the roof after her death I think we can assume the hotel isn't all that interested in who goes on the roof

Still amazed that after pulling a body from the tank we have teams of kids with cameras being able to tour the roof top and hotel. One would think they'd ramp up security for at least a month or two.

yes exactly!

- also ..like you said, bieng able to access the roof and take video tells you alot about the hotel security/maintenance.

 

[Borris]

- The problem is....the Locking mechanism on the "emergency exit" door will not keep the door locked if you press that bar.

- That key hole is for turning a deadbolt latch....but as soon as you press the push bar it unlocks.

- The door is meant to be locked so no one from the outside can get in....but someone on the inside can always get out.

- The magnetic alarm ( the little white boxes on the top of the door) may also make a sound, not sure if they are attache to a speaker in the lobby?....or they may be the old system?

Yes that's right. And the alarm doesn't have to be activated. We had a door just like this in a high-rise that I once lived in. It would send a BEEP sound rather than a typical "alarm". Many times it was left ajar, as if the workmen forgot to close it shut, or just didn't care, or were trying to recirculate the air in the building by holding the door open.

The top of the door looks like a circuit that could turn a light on or a buzzer at the reception desk. My "high-rise" complex did not have such a device. Just the door.

The Chinese group might have thought it was locked because of a stiff mechanism to unlatch it and a heavy door - a half-hearted attempt.

 

[jennydreadful]

Then who was it? Can't remember. But he is totally right that somebody either wrote or said in a video that the alarm wasn't on but I think they said the door was locked. Wait, if the door was locked, then how would they know the alarm wasn't on? Now that doesn't make sense. Am I not remembering correctly now or was I too dense to notice the inconsistency when I first heard or read it?

I remember Chinese investigators using the fire escape. I think they did say that they tried the door before they left and that it was locked. I don't think they said anything about the alarm since they wouldn't be able to tell.

I assumed that the door may be locked now to deter "sightseers", but wasn't necessarily before. For whatever it's worth, the media has given me the impression that the door wasn't locked but the alarm was on (in compliance with fire codes). I wonder if the police told them to lock it for now. I don't know if the police can legally override fire regulations, though. Pretty sure those laws were made in response to the 1911 Triangle Shirtwaist Fire.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Yes that's right. And the alarm doesn't have to be activated. We had a door just like this in a high-rise that I once lived in. It would send a BEEP sound rather than a typical "alarm". Many times it was left ajar, as if the workmen forgot to close it shut, or just didn't care, or were trying to recirculate the air in the building by holding the door open.

The top of the door looks like a circuit that could turn a light on or a buzzer at the reception desk. My "high-rise" complex did not have such a device. Just the door.

The Chinese group might have thought it was locked because of a stiff mechanism to unlatch it and a heavy door - a half-hearted attempt.

Excellent point!

If the dead bolt is locked ( on the push bar using the key) it can be very stiff to open.

If the dead bolt is not latched it is much easier to open.

I made a video showing how the emergency door might work.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l0-OwIC__o"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l0-OwIC__o[/ame]

found this so far..

(Title 24, Part 2, Section 2-3303(c)(3).)

(3) Panic hardware shall not be equipped with any locking or dogging device, set screw, or other arrangement which can be used to prevent the release of the latch when pressure is applied to the bar.

(4) No lock, padlock, hasp, bar, chain, or other device, or combination thereof, shall be installed or maintained at any time on or in connection with any door on which panic hardware is required, if such device prevents the free use of the door for exiting.

(n) Latches. A latch or other fastening device on a door shall be provided with a knob, handle, panic bar, or other simple type of releasing device, the method of operation of which is obvious. (Title 24, Part 2, Section 2-3303(c).)

Link to Ca.gov department of industrial relations/OSHA>>>https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/3235.html wich links back>>> https://www.dir.ca.gov/default.html

 

[noodled1]

Excellent point!

It is an excellent point. We have a door like that minus the alarm in our underground parking structure and my 8 year old can hit the bar hard enough to unlatch the door but she can't push it open.

 

[dotr]

Sorry if this video has already been posted.

"Published on Mar 7, 2013


a perspective of a roof access point , Just going over an option to access the roof, I'm not saying Elisa or a perp used the hatch......just showing it as a option"


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W41i70AipHM"]Roof access to the Cecil Hotel, roof access hatch - YouTube[/ame]

 

[tapu]

Hi, Bessie.

For clarification, posts are left in the threads where they were first posted and they appear in chrono order in the new topic-specific threads? And on the new threads, then, the posts come from all the different original threads?

Now that I've written that out, I realize it's how it must be but please let me know if I am wrong.

Thank you for the work you've put into this.


[I did not post this in the thread here. I posted in gnrl thread 5. Not sure what up..... ]

 

[Conductor71]

This door?

looking at the picture...the deadbolt has been removed and the door has a pushbar opening lock.

these doors are not locked.....If the alarm was working you would need a key to turn off the alarm( key goes into the key hole of the pushbar box on the left side)

Info on the key (don't think this was posted):

The door has no lock but the alarm system would have rung continuously until it was turned off using a special key, according to the Los Angeles Fire Department.

According to L.A.'s fire code, it is illegal to lock rooftop doors in a highrise building. But a sign warning the door is alarmed is posted and it is unclear who had access to the key to shut it off.


In essence, this hotel has absolutely no security.

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2013/02/20/la-mystery-deepens-hotel-rooftop-where-body-found-had-an-alarm