IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #18

[MotherOcean]

I think the kids were lured to the secluded section of the lake under false pretenses. I think it has everything to do with Lyric's dad and the drug world of meth. I do believe that the kids or at least one of the kids knew the perp or perps. I think the underground was sending Lyric's dad a message.

Do you think, if that is what has happened, that the girls are still alive? Do you think they will be released?

 

[Sailorsgirl]

My parents didn't even know I was gone! They thought I had gotten on the bus. The school didn't notify them that I was absent. The men released me in my neighborhood near the time when the bus would have been dropping me off. I ran to a friend's house who lived near there and one of her parents took me to the school. The school called my parents and the FBI. To my knowledge, the men were never caught. I think no one saw it happen because most of the adults in the neighborhood had already left for work that morning. There were usually other children at the bus stop but I was alone that day.

I wonder if you were a test run, so to speak, for future plans. Scary they were never caught. Again, I am so glad they didn't hurt you and let you go. Some people are just too twisted! If that was just their way of having a thrill for the day or playing a joke, they were really sick individuals!

 

[MotherOcean]

I wonder if you were a test run, so to speak, for future plans. Scary they were never caught. Again, I am so glad they didn't hurt you and let you go. Some people are just too twisted! If that was just their way of having a thrill for the day or playing a joke, they were really sick individuals!

BBM --

Thank you! Knowing all that I know now, I am very thankful that nothing bad happened. It was scary but I was o.k. I always thought it was just their twisted sense of humor. They really seemed to think it was funny and entertaining.

 

[Snowbunny]

Do you think, if that is what has happened, that the girls are still alive? Do you think they will be released?

One can only hope and pray they will be. There has to be a reason why LE is saying that they think there's a chance these two girls are still alive. In the Koenig case in AK the police strongly believed that Samantha was still alive at the time because the perp "Keyes" was texting her dad but of course the public wasn't aware of that. I just hope they are found safe and sound.

 

[butterfly1978]

I do not understand why there is absolutely no new news, no more information nothing to go on. How did these two girls just vanish in broad daylight and we still know nothing?

 

[GrainneDhu]

I asked this on the last thread before it was closed so I never got an answer. For some of you more experienced sleuthers, what are your thoughts on the girls being together when found? I'm just wondering what's the possibility that they are still together?? I just want to know kinda what to prepare myself for. Then I'm not sure how many times 2 people are taken in an abduction so there may not be any way for you experienced folks to help me. Just a question. TIA

Multiple children are often taken in custodial disputes but I'm certain that is not the case here.

While there are some other cases of two girls being taken together (the one that leaps to mind is the two girls who disappeared at an Oklahoma carnival but there are others), they are so rare that it is hard to generalise.

Except to say that it seems like such cases seem to go unsolved, most likely because they involved perps that had no social connection to the victims.

So I'm thinking my guess is just that, a guess and has no better than 50% chance of being correct. I think the two girls will be found together and I don't think they will be found alive.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I don't know if that would work here ... mostly because we can never have an executable plan. I love reading everyone's theories or experiences. I've said this before ... any insight into this case can be useful even if it seems completely off the wall. The problem we all have is that we think like logical, rational people ... unfortunately, the person/people who took those girls isn't/aren't logical or rational. We can't possibly step into their shoes because this isn't something any of us would do. I welcome everything other posters have to say even if I don't agree with them ... I think it's safe to say, we just need to respect each other and if we disagree we should do so without bashing a person's theory or making them feel like an idiot. No one here is an idiot ... we are all here for the same reason. We want Lyric and Elizabeth brought home.

They think differently for sure, but they must have some rationality otherwise they wouldn't have succeeded so well...

These girls literally vanished into thin air, it seems.

 

[Sailorsgirl]

They think differently for sure, but they must have some rationality otherwise they wouldn't have succeeded so well...

These girls literally vanished into thin air, it seems.

Diabolical, maybe. Rational in a way that they are capable of carrying out a plan, but not rational in terms of mentally sound. Maybe rational is the wrong word ...

 

[GrainneDhu]

I suddenly had a thought.

When the girls were caught on cctv, one was in the lead by a fair bit. What if they were racing and one of them was significantly ahead of the other when they reached the section of trail where the bicycles were found?

The perp may have made moves on the first girl before the second girl popped into sight from around that blind corner.

So I think that it is possible the perp didn't really intend to take two girls, that's just what happened as the situation developed.

 

[hambirg]

I think that the perp(s) abducted the girls where the bikes were found and led them out through Maiden Lane. I think it was most likely one perp who acted much like Joseph Duncan did in the Sammie Jo White and Carmen Cubias abduction. (These two girls remains were found almost 300 miles from the abduction site.)
I'm about equal on whether the girls were targeted and this was planned well or it was more random and two girls was just a bonus. I think the the perp just appeared in the pathway with a gun and the girls had no alternative but to stop in their tracks and go with him or her. I lean a little more towards random and one male perp but won't rule out the possibility of another Melissa Huckaby type.

This is all just my opinion and as always I hope I am wrong and they will be home soon and are well. Praying for the safe return of both Lizzie and Lyric. lease:

Sammie Jo White and Carmen Cubias were abducted in Seattle and found in Bothell. . .about 10miles away, AFAIK.

Your theory is basically one of mine. . .IF I think the girls made it to the lake. It's not my favorite at the moment, but I see it as being very possible. It's simple. . . Occam's Razor and all that.

MOO

 

[GrainneDhu]

I wonder if LE found track marks there.

I also wonder how high the bank is at that spot as you come off of the interstate. It looks really high further down to the east but hard to tell about that particular spot. From the few pix I've seen it appears to be much flatter than further east.

I could see someone coming through that spot if the bank is level, but I can't figure out how they could drive east, grab the girls, and keep on going... I guess they could have cut across the grassy area and got on Arbutus. Is that what you think?

Locals have said that the traffic there was very slow due to a construction project.

I think the embankment at the hole is so steep that the only way to get a vehicle down it without rolling the vehicle would be to drive straight down the slope.

But then there's the difficulty of the 10 foot wide trail. I don't think there's enough room there for a normal vehicle to make a right angle turn onto the trail there. The vehicle would have to approach at an angle considerably off the perpendicular.

I also think that a vehicle going over all those weeds would leave an obvious, visible track.

 

[hambirg]

I think the embankment at the hole is so steep that the only way to get a vehicle down it without rolling the vehicle would be to drive straight down the slope.

But then there's the difficulty of the 10 foot wide trail. I don't think there's enough room there for a normal vehicle to make a right angle turn onto the trail there. The vehicle would have to approach at an angle considerably off the perpendicular.

I also think that a vehicle going over all those weeds would leave an obvious, visible track.

I don't think a vehicle went down there, but could have the bikes just been rolled down the hill? I thought the opening in the fence was kind of further west than the gate though.

I'm still not sure the girls were at the lake, but I get the feeling the bikes were actually found further east on the trail. . .I know we were told at the gate, but LE can be vague on purpose. . .so yeah. . .at the gate. . .as opposed to the parking lot.

I think they were closer to the curve near the end of the fence. I think the simplest theory is a car pulls in close to the west side of the pump house and simply walks the bikes through the woods to the end of the fence, and then maybe just a little bit west on the trail.

MOO

 

[SouthernMom]

Sammie Jo White and Carmen Cubias were abducted in Seattle and found in Bothell. . .about 10miles away, AFAIK.

Your theory is basically one of mine. . .IF I think the girls made it to the lake. It's not my favorite at the moment, but I see it as being very possible. It's simple. . . Occam's Razor and all that.

MOO

I stand corrected. Bothell is between 15-27 miles from Seattle depending on what route you take, according to Google Maps. I agree with this being the most simple explanation and this is why I think it is possible.
This theory offers no worrying with staging anything or complicated planning or an accomplice who might talk. But so scary to think there are others out there as twisted as Joseph E Duncan, III. :tears:

 

[SouthernMom]

I suddenly had a thought.

When the girls were caught on cctv, one was in the lead by a fair bit. What if they were racing and one of them was significantly ahead of the other when they reached the section of trail where the bicycles were found?

The perp may have made moves on the first girl before the second girl popped into sight from around that blind corner.

So I think that it is possible the perp didn't really intend to take two girls, that's just what happened as the situation developed.

ITA. This is along the lines of what I think happened.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I just happened to see a 48 hour's tonight that involved the Lisk sisters along with two other girls who were abducted by a serial killer Marc Evonitz. It's hard to figure out how one person can take two girls....but unfortunately it has been done. Still praying for the safe return of Elizabeth and Lyric.

 

[nikb]

I've had a couple of theories and each time I have been 100% sure that voila, I have solved everything. I certainly hope that I'm not on the list of "certain posters" that has caused an adversarial atmosphere. I think it is great when someone has a strong theory and can back it up with facts or even over-the-top coincidences, but there really is no benefit to try to be right versus wrong and get others to buy in on your theory. If you are succesful then the brainstorming stops because everyone believes the same thing. It isn't productive to win the debate. The real productivity comes into play when someone puts their theory out there and allow others to find holes in it.

(ps: I am pretty sure I mixed my tenses a lot in there)

OT but tiny little shout out. THANK YOU for saying "voila" instead of "viola." I know someone's just mixing up words as I'm sure we've all done (who me? probably way more than once), but when people say "Viola, there it was!" I always picture the orchestra instrument.

 

[nikb]

I'm not being snarky, I'm honestly confused. What is offensive about it? It seems to me to be an accurate descriptor.

I was upset when I saw it but can see both sides. Back to my point about local vernacular - to me "search" and "hunt" are not even close to interchageable. Everyone is "searching" for the girls, not "hunting" for them. To me "hunting" means "find it and kill it." Do you "search for" deer or do you "hunt" them? Personally I search for deer and enjoy watching them graze. I don't hunt them. (and yes, I realize I'm a total hypocrite for buying a steak on the way home, just for the record).

I think it might just be a regional language thing.

ETA: I hope it's obvious my last question was rhetorical and not directed at anyone personally.

 

[nikb]

Thanks...that's reassuring!

I'm sure my brother will not be going to the media...he is really having a hard time dealing with the horrors of what he witnessed.

And in the case of the missing girls, it does appear that the "witnesses" we know about are the ones that WENT to the media.

OT please tell him people are thinking of him and sending him positive wishes. His life's already been so impacted by this. I hope the media doesn't make it an even bigger mess to get through. And yes related to the case it does seem to be the ones who went to the media. It makes me sad because getting word out might be the best way to get people to call but geez, to have yourself suspected and dragged through the mud like that is a pretty darn big risk you (as an individual) could take.

I hope your brother is doing as ok as he can be.

 

[MNDad]

I was upset when I saw it but can see both sides. Back to my point about local vernacular - to me "search" and "hunt" are not even close to interchageable. Everyone is "searching" for the girls, not "hunting" for them. To me "hunting" means "find it and kill it." Do you "search for" deer or do you "hunt" them? Personally I search for deer and enjoy watching them graze. I don't hunt them. (and yes, I realize I'm a total hypocrite for buying a steak on the way home, just for the record).

I think it might just be a regional language thing.

ETA: I hope it's obvious my last question was rhetorical and not directed at anyone personally.

Not saying that you don't have the right to be offended, but in reality it is just a word. I agree that you "search" for something that is missing and you "hunt" for prey, but we all use the phrases "Easter Egg Hunt" and "Scavenger Hunt" and no one questions the choice of words. I think we are all just sensitive because it is two innocent girls we are talking about.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Are LE still saying they believe the girls to be alive?.

Ive said this before but i dont think the girls were taken by the drug underworld types to send a message to Lyric's dad.They would have to let him know what theyve done to send the message and im sure if that was the case Lyrics dad would go straight to LE,i mean he and LE would have a name to act on.
I know if i got a call to say my boys or nieces had been taken or hurt to pay me back because i did something wrong to someone else and i had a name id be straight on to LE followed by several other calls to round up a few friends..