IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

[Bootsctr]

BBM

Me, too, I have had her in my thoughts often. And if family friends are correct in saying that there may be some strain in the family, I imagine that makes it all the more terrible for Wylma.

I can certainly understand Drew and Heather wanting to do something special to commemorate Lizzie's life. She was their daughter, and they should be able to focus solely on her now if they want to. Up until now, everything was a joint effort on behalf of Lyric and Lizzie. Now it's time for both sides to grieve in the way they see fit, IMO.

I agree. Have a joint memorial service, but there should be two separate funerals.

 

[not_my_kids]

I stumbled across this, apologies if already known -

Jennifer Lancaster, Department of Natural Resources law enforcement supervisor for Northeast Iowa, said DNR conservation officers have been involved with the recovery, but they, like all involved officers from all agencies, have been instructed not to comment on the specific location, which is being investigated as a crime scene.

Dear God. Does that mean they think the murders occured right there?

That indicates the girls were indeed alive, until recently...and my initial feeling could be correct, that they were walked in.:sick:

This is just awful to contemplate, I cannot imagine how LE must be feeling.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_394b71f6-3f2c-11e2-8ae9-0019bb2963f4.html

They would have to investigate it as a crime scene. It is. It might only be a secondary crime scene, not the primary where the girls were killed, but a crime scene nonetheless.

 

[Tricia]

Tonight 10 PM Eastern join yours truly on the Levi Page Spreecast.

Topics will include

*Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook

*George Zimmerman suing NBC.

Watch Levi's Spreecast tonight 10 PM Eastern by clicking right here

 

[SapphireSteel]

They would have to investigate it as a crime scene. It is. It might only be a secondary crime scene, not the primary where the girls were killed, but a crime scene nonetheless.

True.

But is a dump scene routinely called a "crime scene" by LE?

when they find a body say, in the town dump as so often happens, the dump is not usually referred to as a crime scene?

 

[lishac23]

I stumbled across this, apologies if already known -

Jennifer Lancaster, Department of Natural Resources law enforcement supervisor for Northeast Iowa, said DNR conservation officers have been involved with the recovery, but they, like all involved officers from all agencies, have been instructed not to comment on the specific location, which is being investigated as a crime scene.

Dear God. Does that mean they think the murders occured right there?

That indicates the girls were indeed alive, until recently...and my initial feeling could be correct, that they were walked in.:sick:

This is just awful to contemplate, I cannot imagine how LE must be feeling.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_394b71f6-3f2c-11e2-8ae9-0019bb2963f4.html

A dump site is considered a secondary crime scene.

 

[Adair88]

My theory is that perp is someone local. Older, meaning not a teen or young twenties, male, familiar with general area, who perhaps used to party over at seven bridges as a youth and recalled how remote and overgrown it is, maybe even recalled the turnout nnear the riverbend. Back in the day, when he used to go there, the river was higher and faster in that spot.

Maybe perp intended to weigh the bodies down and put them in the river, but due to drought, perp discovered on arriving the water was too low for that to work. So he improvised.

I agree. Now that the news is out about where the girls were located, only a few people I have talked to knew about that location. One person knew of it because she tubes down the river in the Summer and actually has used that exact spot where the road turns around to exit the river before hitting the dams downstream. That area is very popular for fishing but she said this Summer there was a lot of trash and at least one burnt out campfire when she was there.

Another person is older and said the location used to be very nice and kept up, but they downgraded it years ago and quit taking care of it. There used to be 7 bridges across the river there but flooding and lack of upkeep eliminated about half of them.

Yet another person (in his 30's) said he used to party out there with friends when he was in high school. He lived nearby and said it was quite the isolated party spot.

Everyone said the location is very isolated and a local from the towns of Readlyn, Denver, Fairbank, or Dunkerton would absolutely know about the area but maybe others would not unless they are into hunting, fishing, or tubing.

 

[not_my_kids]

True.

But is a dump scene routinely called a "crime scene" by LE?

when they find a body say, in the town dump as so often happens, the dump is not usually referred to as a crime scene?

To me, it would be odd for them to refer to the location where a body is found as anything other than a crime scene.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I agree. Now that the news is out about where the girls were located, only a few people I have talked to knew about that location. One person knew of it because she tubes down the river in the Summer and actually has used that exact spot where the road turns around to exit the river before hitting the dams downstream. That area is very popular for fishing but she said this Summer there was a lot of trash and at least one burnt out campfire when she was there.

Another person is older and said the location used to be very nice and kept up, but they downgraded it years ago and quit taking care of it. There used to be 7 bridges across the river there but flooding and lack of upkeep eliminated about half of them.

Yet another person (in his 30's) said he used to party out there with friends when he was in high school. He lived nearby and said it was quite the isolated party spot.

Everyone said the location is very isolated and a local from the towns of Readlyn, Denver, Fairbank, or Dunkerton would absolutely know about the area but maybe others would not unless they are into hunting, fishing, or tubing.

^^^ so that spot is the logical place a car would pull over, for someone to walk into the undergrowth to dump bodies?

Thanks heaps for the local knowledge, it helps so much!

 

[Dr. Know?]

Des Moines Register ‏@DMRegister
Autopsies completed on bodies found in Bremer County; no results announced -- http://dmreg.co/SEtFdW #evansdalesearch

 

[cindersoot]

A dump site means, it's where the body was dumped and not killed.

 

[TxLady2]

Quite possible someone phoned in a tip as to the location of the bodies and the discovery of the bodies was attributed to hunters so as not to "out" the one who phoned in the tip. Heather has been very passionate in addressing the person who had the girls. Maybe her pleas got through to someone?

Considering how many times the remains of missing people are found by hunters in remote areas, I firmly believe this is what happened here. I highly doubt they were found from a tip phoned in, that would imply it was either the killer or someone who was an accessory to the crime, and most child killers don't suddenly grow a conscience. Sadly, I don't think most of these tearful pleas on t.v. from families are even seen by predators, but even if, they are probably laughing. These perps don't care who they hurt!
People calling in tips can be anonymous but even if the name is known, LE would not release their names without their permission.

 

[Pinkhammer]

:what: Can you elaborate. I did not know this. tia

Banfield did this night after night (I forget what network she was on at that time). She harrassed his wife, his co-workers, his neighbors, trying to prove that her suspicions were right.

Ricci was arrested and died in prison from a brain hemorrhage.

The whole story is on WIKI:

"Ultimately, the Salt Lake City police signaled that their prime person of interest was Richard Ricci, being held in custody for unrelated reasons. Ricci, a handyman hired by the Smarts, was on parole for a 1983 attempted murder of police officer Mike Hill. He was charged with felony burglaries of homes in the area similar in circumstances to the break-in at the Smarts. Ricci later died in jail from a Cerebral hemorrhage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia a few weeks after he refused to provide a confession to Utah corrections officers.[23] With his death, it seemed that all leads were exhausted. Upon discovery of the actual kidnappers, Ricci's widow issued a statement expressing relief at Smart's safe return and her husband's innocence."

Banfield disappeared from TV for awhile, but now she has made a comeback.

More links:

http://crime.about.com/b/2004/09/30/richard-riccis-wife-settles-claim-against-state.htm

Nancy Grace also had a big hand in Ricci's persecution:

http://nstarzone.com/RICCI.html

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

I agree, TXLady. I believe hunters found them as well. I live in a rural area of Pennsylvania and it is a common occurrence for hunters to find evidence of crimes, elderly people lost in the woods, etc.

 

[Squeeze]

I agree. Now that the news is out about where the girls were located, only a few people I have talked to knew about that location. One person knew of it because she tubes down the river in the Summer and actually has used that exact spot where the road turns around to exit the river before hitting the dams downstream. That area is very popular for fishing but she said this Summer there was a lot of trash and at least one burnt out campfire when she was there.

Another person is older and said the location used to be very nice and kept up, but they downgraded it years ago and quit taking care of it. There used to be 7 bridges across the river there but flooding and lack of upkeep eliminated about half of them.

Yet another person (in his 30's) said he used to party out there with friends when he was in high school. He lived nearby and said it was quite the isolated party spot.

Everyone said the location is very isolated and a local from the towns of Readlyn, Denver, Fairbank, or Dunkerton would absolutely know about the area but maybe others would not unless they are into hunting, fishing, or tubing.

This what ive heard too. Only locals really know about this park. Great spot for partiers. Not sure if peep intended for them to be found. By next spring they could have been decomposed and overgrown.

 

[TxLady2]

I think every family has division and issues to an extent, whether they admit it or are even aware of it. I know mine does. Obviously, these are latent in most families until a crisis arises. I think everyone is coping the best they can and there are bound to be various opinions on many things. In a situation like this, many people like to take the lead (usually thinking they are helping or motivated by how they need to process the grief) and it can be upsetting to others who are trying to do the same thing in different ways. Everyone means well, but all people cope differently and there will always be communication issues. Even in a natural, elderly, old-age death you see family members who want things to go different ways. That is life. I think we need to understand the family is entitled to grieve however they deem fit without our value judgements. They can only do what is best for themselves. Perhaps, we can all walk in their shoes and while we think we know how we "would" handle the situation, it usually is handled far differently then we "think" we would.

You are so correct!! I know of very few families who seem to all agree on everything, especially where elderly parents are concerned, but with the one or two I do know who seem so united, there could be issues going on that no one else is aware of.

I've got enough family issues right now to write two or three books about and I cannot imagine having to go through what these two families have for the past several months and now this. It breaks my heart!

 

[Squeeze]

Wondering who/what is the connection between evansdale and this park. I'm convinced that the girls knew who took them. So is the family and friends focus on who they know that's familiar with the area.....

 

[mck16]

Banfield did this night after night (I forget what network she was on at that time). She harrassed his wife, his co-workers, his neighbors, trying to prove that her suspicions were right.

Ricci was arrested and died in prison from a brain hemorrhage.

The whole story is on WIKI:

"Ultimately, the Salt Lake City police signaled that their prime person of interest was Richard Ricci, being held in custody for unrelated reasons. Ricci, a handyman hired by the Smarts, was on parole for a 1983 attempted murder of police officer Mike Hill. He was charged with felony burglaries of homes in the area similar in circumstances to the break-in at the Smarts. Ricci later died in jail from a Cerebral hemorrhage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia a few weeks after he refused to provide a confession to Utah corrections officers.[23] With his death, it seemed that all leads were exhausted. Upon discovery of the actual kidnappers, Ricci's widow issued a statement expressing relief at Smart's safe return and her husband's innocence."

Banfield disappeared from TV for awhile, but now she has made a comeback.

More links:

http://crime.about.com/b/2004/09/30/richard-riccis-wife-settles-claim-against-state.htm

Nancy Grace also had a big hand in Ricci's persecution:

http://nstarzone.com/RICCI.html

I just knew her from doing the evening news in Dallas. Yes, she now has some kind of a show kind of like NG. I didn't know of her after she left Dallas and was surprised when I saw her not long ago. Thanks for the info.

 

[Squeeze]

The hunters that found them were from the Waverley area. Sheriff Tony Thompson said that if they had walked five feed on either side, they may have missed them.

 

[lishac23]

Des Moines Register ‏@DMRegister
Autopsies completed on bodies found in Bremer County; no results announced -- http://dmreg.co/SEtFdW #evansdalesearch

The could be just withholding a lot of info, but this statement leads me to believe (again) that they were somewhat intact. If they were (forgive me) reduced to bones and some tissue. They would need a forensic anthropologist....not the ME

 

[TxLady2]

If Ollipop claims some clothing were found ... which you mentioned upthread ... and it is also reported by the talking heads ... is it true or not true?

Additionally, we first heard that Jessica Ridgeway had been dismembered on NG, and it was quite true. Isn't it possible that a visual identification of the bodies was made because the children were recognized? That wouldn't be true if they were in that locataion for 5 months. Clothing would not be sufficient to identify the children.

If you mean for a positive ID, then no, it wouldn't. But a tentative one, yes. Definitely, if these remains were 'wearing' these clothes and they matched what the girls were wearing when they disappeared. But I would bet that they were also going by the hair on the heads as well. Hair stays intact on the skulls and does not decompose.