IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What if no ring / No conspiracy?

[docwho3]

Regarding the visit of Johhny in 1997
This is just my two cents but..........

As a mother of a son about Johnnys age..........IF he came back to me after he had been abducted for several years in the middle of the night.......there would be NO WAY IN HELL he would leave my house again. I assure you that I would have to be killed in order for me to lose somthing that precious again.

SO I wonder am I insane or would ANY mother do the same? There is no pedo ring or secret FBI crap that could keep me away from the son that I lost. NO WAY NO HOW! I would NEVER stop trying to find my son and HURT the poeple who hurt him. I do not want to say that Noreen is weak or anything but I do think that someone is playing her hard. I'm not sure she would have let her son walk out the door again after he visited her (six feet and all his *advertiser censored* would be staying put). WOULD YOU?

I wanted to say this earlier before the posting glitch: You raise an interesting thought. I am not a mother and so did not think of it in quite as easily as you but I have known mothers to be very singleminded-hold-on-no-matter-what about their children in some circumstances. Thank you for the great insight. I wonder: Do all mothers have that strong of an instinct and does that instinct fit with what little we know of the mother in this case?

Edited to add: I think I will try to redo this post in a bit to see if I can get it into its proper number spot at the end of the line of posts (a couple of the posts had bad times on them and it kept them floating after everything else posted.)

 

[Eisbar]

Regarding the visit of Johhny in 1997
This is just my two cents but..........

As a mother of a son about Johnnys age..........IF he came back to me after he had been abducted for several years in the middle of the night.......there would be NO WAY IN HELL he would leave my house again. I assure you that I would have to be killed in order for me to lose somthing that precious again.

SO I wonder am I insane or would ANY mother do the same? There is no pedo ring or secret FBI crap that could keep me away from the son that I lost. NO WAY NO HOW! I would NEVER stop trying to find my son and HURT the poeple who hurt him. I do not want to say that Noreen is weak or anything but I do think that someone is playing her hard. I'm not sure she would have let her son walk out the door again after he visited her (six feet and all his *advertiser censored* would be staying put). WOULD YOU?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

If the bickering keeps up, this case will be banned from discussion.

 

[docwho3]

Regarding the visit of Johhny in 1997
This is just my two cents but..........

As a mother of a son about Johnnys age..........IF he came back to me after he had been abducted for several years in the middle of the night.......there would be NO WAY IN HELL he would leave my house again. I assure you that I would have to be killed in order for me to lose somthing that precious again.

SO I wonder am I insane or would ANY mother do the same? There is no pedo ring or secret FBI crap that could keep me away from the son that I lost. NO WAY NO HOW! I would NEVER stop trying to find my son and HURT the poeple who hurt him. I do not want to say that Noreen is weak or anything but I do think that someone is playing her hard. I'm not sure she would have let her son walk out the door again after he visited her (six feet and all his *advertiser censored* would be staying put). WOULD YOU?

I wanted to say this earlier before the posting glitch: You raise an interesting thought. I am not a mother and so did not think of it in quite as easily as you but I have known mothers to be very singleminded-hold-on-no-matter-what about their children in some circumstances. Thank you for the great insight. I wonder: Do all mothers have that strong of an instinct and does that instinct fit with what little we know of the mother in this case?

 

[Roy Harrold]

This is the bare-bones description of the case, taken from Doe Network:

"Gosch disappeared while conducting his newspaper route in West Des Moines, Iowa on September 5, 1982. He was tailed by his dachshund, Gretchen. Gosch was seen speaking to a male suspect while working his paper route on 42nd Street and Marcourt Lane. Gretchen returned home without her master. Because of the Gosch case, Iowa passed a law requiring immediate investigations of missing children."

Not wishing to be critical of Doe or of NCMEC, but that's pretty typical of the info released on hundreds of missing child cases - not much.

Imagine the challenge you'd face, if you were trying to run a charitable foundation centered on your missing child's case - and that's all the info you can give your supporters. Immediately after the tragedy, and as long as the case remained in the news regularly, you'd likely get good support and generous donations. But as time goes on, weeks become months become years, and you still have nothing more to tell people...it would be a real challenge to keep things going.

That's what happened to the Tanya Murrel family, up here in Alberta. Her case was big news, for years, and the working class family was able to run a "foundation" on the initial generosity they received but over time - with nothing new to report - it eventually collapsed from lack of support. There are new cases grabbing headlines all the time, taking attention away from your own family's tragedy, and so many hundreds of charities competing for every penny of charitable donations...

 

[2sisters]

This is the bare-bones description of the case, taken from Doe Network:

"Gosch disappeared while conducting his newspaper route in West Des Moines, Iowa on September 5, 1982. He was tailed by his dachshund, Gretchen. Gosch was seen speaking to a male suspect while working his paper route on 42nd Street and Marcourt Lane. Gretchen returned home without her master. Because of the Gosch case, Iowa passed a law requiring immediate investigations of missing children."

Not wishing to be critical of Doe or of NCMEC, but that's pretty typical of the info released on hundreds of missing child cases - not much.

Imagine the challenge you'd face, if you were trying to run a charitable foundation centered on your missing child's case - and that's all the info you can give your supporters. Immediately after the tragedy, and as long as the case remained in the news regularly, you'd likely get good support and generous donations. But as time goes on, weeks become months become years, and you still have nothing more to tell people...it would be a real challenge to keep things going.

That's what happened to the Tanya Murrel family, up here in Alberta. Her case was big news, for years, and the working class family was able to run a "foundation" on the initial generosity they received but over time - with nothing new to report - it eventually collapsed from lack of support. There are new cases grabbing headlines all the time, taking attention away from your own family's tragedy, and so many hundreds of charities competing for every penny of charitable donations...

So are you saying that this is a publicity stunt that they concocted to keep this case in the news? i never thought of that but it is highly possible.

 

[Roy Harrold]

I'm only pointing out that child trafficking rings, satanic cults, mind-control conspiracies run by government agencies - these things attract more attention and interest than:

"Gosch disappeared while conducting his newspaper route in West Des Moines, Iowa on September 5, 1982. He was tailed by his dachshund, Gretchen. Gosch was seen speaking to a male suspect while working his paper route on 42nd Street and Marcourt Lane. Gretchen returned home without her master."

I have pointed this out before, also - Noreen Gosch is a genuine hero, in my opinion, because of her persistence and work that resulted in the "Johnny Gosch bill", which eliminated the 72 hour waiting period for investigation of missing teens. I have no doubt whatsoever, personally, of her initial sincerity. She doesn't make sense, as a suspect, to me at all.

 

[loganone]

Does anyone know if Joubert was questioned about the Gosch case. As I read more about Joubert he seems to become more and more a possible suspect in this case.

 

[Roy Harrold]

Does anyone know if Joubert was questioned about the Gosch case. As I read more about Joubert he seems to become more and more a possible suspect in this case.

The little information I have on Joubert doesn't say if he was questioned about Gosch. Joubert did confess to two killing in Nebraska, but denied responsibility for a third, earlier killing in another part of the country that he was definitely responsible for and convicted of.

So, Joubert demonstrated a desire to lie about and attempt to hide at least one of his murders...

 

[loganone]

The little information I have on Joubert doesn't say if he was questioned about Gosch. Joubert did confess to two killing in Nebraska, but denied responsibility for a third, earlier killing in another part of the country that he was definitely responsible for and convicted of.

So, Joubert demonstrated a desire to lie about and attempt to hide at least one of his murders...

I do know alot of people feel since his victims were found rather quickly that Gosch's couldn't fit his MO, but what if Joubert wanted to start getting attention, leaving the victims where they could be found.

Pure speculation, to bad we can't question Joubert.

 

[Insguru]

Does anyone know what to make of the latest picture? I'm dumbfounded.

 

[Eisbar]

All I can say is it is the same kid with the same pants on. Looks like the same bed too. Very strange. Its hard to say if it is Johnny or not and it does not prove that he is still alive. The photos look dated to the time that he disspeared. It could be a sick way to hurt Noreen by showing old photos of Johnny. Very sad.

 

[Trocaria]

All I can say is it is the same kid with the same pants on. Looks like the same bed too. Very strange. Its hard to say if it is Johnny or not and it does not prove that he is still alive. The photos look dated to the time that he disspeared. It could be a sick way to hurt Noreen by showing old photos of Johnny. Very sad.

How is the "person" who runs this Jacobs tales website getting hold of pics like this? Is he trading for them, buying them, finding them?

 

[Insguru]

How is the "person" who runs this Jacobs tales website getting hold of pics like this? Is he trading for them, buying them, finding them?

I don't know that this picture necessarily came from that website. Seems like it would have surfaced several weeks back when they probably set their record for "hits".

I agree, the angles on both of the pictures make it difficult (for a non mom) to determine if its him or not. I wish we had a straight face shot. I wonder if there is any technology to put a composit together of both pictures (since we have both sides of the head) and come up with something.

I still wonder, where is this all coming from and why??? And why now???

I don't see the purpose for the perp, don't see the purpose for a prankster, and if he were truely still alive and Noreen is aware he is (as she has stated), I don't really see the purpose for her either. I don't see where this is supposed to be leading, whether its him or not. I mean, even if its not him, someone wants us to think it is, so where are "they" going with this?

 

[Eisbar]

From what I understand it is a site similar to a forum site in that individuals can post photos that they have. These pict. may be theirs or from some other web site that they have copied and pasted. What I find interesting is that this site keeps getting more from someone. Who is THAT person? Surly that one holds some knowledge of the source. I can't say for sure if that is Johnny Gosch but it could be and the items are consistant with the time frame of when he was first abducted.

In that light I issue a challange to the poster of the pictures............SHOW me ones when this child was older. Only then can one determine if Johhny/child is still alive up till that pont. Any thoughts on that?

 

[Eisbar]

I don't see the purpose for the perp, don't see the purpose for a prankster, and if he were truely still alive and Noreen is aware he is (as she has stated), I don't really see the purpose for her either. I don't see where this is supposed to be leading, whether its him or not. I mean, even if its not him, someone wants us to think it is, so where are "they" going with this?

Good point.........why now? And why would she care if she already knows he is alive and what was done to him and why he cant come home. I guess it is to catch the perp but thats like looking for a needle in a haystack.

 

[Insguru]

Good point.........why now? And why would she care if she already knows he is alive and what was done to him and why he cant come home. I guess it is to catch the perp but thats like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Eisbar,

Where / how have you come to the conclusion that this latest pic is from the Jacobstale website? I did not see that acknowledged anywhere. You may very well be right, just wondering where you saw this confirmed.

And you're right, what a great point, I don't see the purpose for Noreen either, I thought she has stated that , in a general sense anyway, she knows who is behind the abduction. Granted, maybe she is looking for the actual guy in the car (again, if that is in fact what happened, which we seem again to have no police report or reliable media report on). So if i'm her, I don't really see the purpose, just as you put it above.

Until we can confirm the object of the picture, which we need to do, then i'm not sure what, if anything, to do with this information.

 

[Trocaria]

Eisbar,

Where / how have you come to the conclusion that this latest pic is from the Jacobstale website? I did not see that acknowledged anywhere. You may very well be right, just wondering where you saw this confirmed.

And you're right, what a great point, I don't see the purpose for Noreen either, I thought she has stated that , in a general sense anyway, she knows who is behind the abduction. Granted, maybe she is looking for the actual guy in the car (again, if that is in fact what happened, which we seem again to have no police report or reliable media report on). So if i'm her, I don't really see the purpose, just as you put it above.

Until we can confirm the object of the picture, which we need to do, then i'm not sure what, if anything, to do with this information.

Prior to the site being taken off line, had you gone there a couple of weeks ago, you would have seen this pic and other ones like it.

 

[Insguru]

Prior to the site being taken off line, had you gone there a couple of weeks ago, you would have seen this pic and other ones like it.

I refused to go to that site.

So this new pic was also posted to the site, after the originals ones were publicized. Interesting. It could be that whoever posted the first picture realized what a s...storm he/she caused and elected to post another one that he had in his collection to cause more outrage/concern.

Mr. Thomas?? you out there??

 

[Eisbar]

I saw it on Noreen Gosch's website and I'm pretty sure that it referenced the jacobstales web site as the source. If not then I must have read it hear. her site is www.johnnygosch.com