IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #37

[glamourkitty1922]

What does the law say about senior politicians declaring people guilty at the time of arrest? Is that allowed? This strikes me as something that could completely violate the presumption of innocent until proven guilty.

Politicians, like everyone else, are covered by the Bill of Rights. It's Freedom of Speech.

 

[Leney]

Yes, but a lawyer could say CR gave a story to LE to cover for someone else.

I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED, but merely saying it's what a lawyer might say to put doubt in the jury's mind about the confession.

Again, I'm hoping DNA (and other physical evidence) seals the deal.

jmo

LE has stated repeatedly, that they have a timeline they consider solid.
It is my belief, that it will be shown that their timeline begins prior to Mollie disappearing.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes, but a lawyer could say CR gave a story to LE to cover for someone else.

I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED, but merely saying it's what a lawyer might say to put doubt in the jury's mind about the confession.

Again, I'm hoping DNA (and other physical evidence) seals the deal.

jmo

Lawyers can say anything they want. Jurors aren't required to believe it. Jurors want proof and it is there in CR's confession. His attorney has been flapping for a couple of days now and he's not even hinted anyone else was involved. On the other hand, if LE finds evidence of another person, they'll investigate and charge them, too. At this point, his attorney has no clue as to the evidence LE has gathered.

 

[OldCop]

For people who are still having trouble with sharp force injury as opposed to blunt force injury: Take 2 watermelons: 1). Take a knife/machete and slash and stab the first watermelon. 2). Take something heavier or not particularly sharp, (a hammer, a rock, a lamp) and strike the second watermelon.
If you can visualize this, the difference is a neater incision vs a “smashed” irregular type of injury. During autopsy the medical examiner will be able to differentiate between the two. Depending on the intensity of the attack, there may be either broken or fractured bones or even saw marks on the bone. If the body is in a semi-preserved state the ME should be able to tell if it was a serrated or straight blade if it is a sharp object injury or what type of weapon it was by the shape of the wound in a blunt force injury.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

How did LE know the car belonged to CBR? I mean, it’s one thing to have footage of a car that keeps showing up where MT is, but how do they link that car to a guy who isn’t even officially in the country? Do you think they must have shown pics of the car to locals? Or tracked down the registration to someone?

The car was unique. The neighbors all saw it as did probably 1399 people in the town of 1400. It’s a small community. Except for being a murderous human, everyone knows almost everything everyone owns, drives and what they do.

My guess is LE is really going to be extremely busy putting together his background.

It’s very unusual to progress from no criminal behavior to murder (0 to 60) this fast. I think they very well solve other crimes as they know him better.

 

[Inthedetails]

The fact that he led them to the body is extremely incriminating.

Yes, but the defense could say he was there at the field when she was dumped but isn't the one who stabbed her. Or, someone told him were the body was or even showed him, but he didn't dump her there.

And, CR didn't confess to stabbing. The lawyer is sure to use that in his defense case.

Again, I think CR is the perp.

But the defense team will make the prosecutors prove every single detail. The defense lawyer is not going to say, "Well, CR lead LE to the body so guess he did it." No way. The defense lawyer will poke holes in everything and the prosecution is working right now to make sure no holes can be poked. The confession is not enough, imo.

I think it's worthwhile to think like the defense team - and to think like the prosecutors - now that we're over the shock of learning about what happened to Mollie. Otherwise, we'll have page after page of "he's such a monster!" Yeah he is, but we can take this discussion further now.

jmopinion

 

[wary]

I’m sure that LE has the entire confession recorded. With federal and state involvement, there’s no way there would be that kind of oversight (not recording it).

And they came prepared with an interpreter--this wasn't a spontaneous interview. I agree--I'm sure they recorded it.

 

[CheetosDust]

I see some posters surprised by the "multiple sharp force trauma". Sadly I am not. After reading his profile on FB - his favourite music is Narcocorridos and there are lots of awful "jokes" encouraging violence towards women- and where he comes from (more on this later) the only thing that surprises me is that this "thing" had reached the age of 24 without killing before.

One of my best pen pals -I am into snail mail- Alma is from the state of Guerrero. Fortunately she no longer lives there -she is doing her PhD in Canada- and she was telling me via Skype this afternoon how violence in some areas of this state is so rampant behaving like a savage is just the norm, not an exception.

This link to an article from last year published by a British newspaper explains more about this:
Morgues shut doors as ultra-violent Mexican state is overwhelmed by bodies

I still think Mollie was targeted. Social media makes it so scarily easy these days to know about someone's daily habits... He probably knew her jogging route and made sure he was there when she passed by.

I really hope everybody in Brooklyn is emotionally supporting her family.

Right! If you think about it, what the hell was he doing way up on the northeast side of Brooklyn? There’s no businesses up there and he lives to the southeast of town. He either spotted her in town and followed her out of town or he knew where she was going to be!

 

[duster1979]

I wonder , Did Iowa ever have the Death Penalty?

Yes, until 1965 I believe.

 

[Alethea]

Yes, but a lawyer could say CR gave a story to LE to cover for someone else.

I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED, but merely saying it's what a lawyer might say to put doubt in the jury's mind about the confession.

Again, I'm hoping DNA (and other physical evidence) seals the deal.

jmo

The thing is, people don't usually confess to things that make them look more guilty than the truth. It's so well established that the federal rules of evidence allow admissions against interest to be introduced to prove the truth because it's human nature that people are not going to lie to make themselves look worse. Let me find my FRE book and cite what they say.

(And I totally get that you are not suggesting it, but I think it would be hard for any lawyer to convincingly make the argument)

 

[SharonNeedles]

Can you elaborate on your thoughts on this?

I obviously can't do this being Canadian. But I have a friend in the states who does, and also hacks her horse with her gun strapped to her chest. Kind of thought it was a good idea, why do you think otherwise?

Rural Iowa already has a lot of guns and it’s ridiculously easy to get a permit to carry - if you’re not concerned about concealing it you don’t need a permit at all. My concern is that the more people you’ve got carrying guns the higher the likelihood that there’s going to be an accident, and that’s multiplied exponentially when the people carrying these guns lack the training and experience to do so responsibly. There are so many more self defense options a jogger can use that don’t pose near the potential danger to my kids playing in the park they’re jogging through.

 

[EaglesSpeical]

JMO
I agree with others that the police interview with him will be real interesting in how it led to his confession and sharing of where he hid the body.

This is a question as I really dont know for sure but cant LE outright lie to a person they are questioning and isnt that totally legal?

For instance. LE may have promised him he could go free if he just told them where he took the body.

I will defer to former LE or criminal attorneys on WS but i thought I read somewhere LE can lie to obtain a confession. My brother is retired LE and he said he definitely did a few times when needed (like hit and run cases). Not sure if he was supposed to though lol.

 

[MassGuy]

I see some posters surprised by the "multiple sharp force trauma". Sadly I am not. After reading his profile on FB - his favourite music is Narcocorridos and there are lots of awful "jokes" encouraging violence towards women- and where he comes from (more on this later) the only thing that surprises me is that this "thing" had reached the age of 24 without killing before.

One of my best pen pals -I am into snail mail- Alma is from the state of Guerrero. Fortunately she no longer lives there -she is doing her PhD in Canada- and she was telling me via Skype this afternoon how violence in some areas of this state is so rampant behaving like a savage is just the norm, not an exception.

This link to an article from last year published by a British newspaper explains more about this:
Morgues shut doors as ultra-violent Mexican state is overwhelmed by bodies

I still think Mollie was targeted. Social media makes it so scarily easy these days to know about someone's daily habits... He probably knew her jogging route and made sure he was there when she passed by.

I really hope everybody in Brooklyn is emotionally supporting her family.

It’s hard to say what, if any, his background has on his personality and psychology, because we don’t know the specifics. People can live in violent places, and not grow up to be violent. But your point is valid, as Mexico is one of the most violent places on earth, especially the area that he is from.

Just because one likes music that is disrespectful to women (rap music as an example), doesn’t mean that they espouse those views (although he clearly does).

 

[Inthedetails]

Great to see you here Hatfield. Your input is always fair and informative....imo.

I'm glad to see Hatfield here too.

 

[Jealoushe]

Rural Iowa already has a lot of guns and it’s ridiculously easy to get a permit to carry - if you’re not concerned about concealing it you don’t need a permit at all. My concern is that the more people you’ve got carrying guns the higher the likelihood that there’s going to be an accident, and that’s multiplied exponentially when the people carrying these guns lack the training and experience to do so responsibly. There are so many more self defense options a jogger can use that don’t pose near the potential danger to my kids playing in the park they’re jogging through.

makes total sense, I can see why that would not be favourable. My friend is military, so she is well trained.

Can you open carry in some states? I wasn't aware of that.

 

[oviedo]

I see some posters surprised by the "multiple sharp force trauma". Sadly I am not. After reading his profile on FB - his favourite music is Narcocorridos and there are lots of awful "jokes" encouraging violence towards women- and where he comes from (more on this later) the only thing that surprises me is that this "thing" had reached the age of 24 without killing before.

One of my best pen pals -I am into snail mail- Alma is from the state of Guerrero. Fortunately she no longer lives there -she is doing her PhD in Canada- and she was telling me via Skype this afternoon how violence in some areas of this state is so rampant behaving like a savage is just the norm, not an exception.

This link to an article from last year published by a British newspaper explains more about this:
Morgues shut doors as ultra-violent Mexican state is overwhelmed by bodies

I still think Mollie was targeted. Social media makes it so scarily easy these days to know about someone's daily habits... He probably knew her jogging route and made sure he was there when she passed by.

I really hope everybody in Brooklyn is emotionally supporting her family.

that is why I am hoping LE goes back to early July and looks at video along her jogging route- to see if he has been following her or was aware of her before the 18th jogging. He admitted he knew of her - I wonder how?

 

[Bravo]

I have taken a few more precautions as well. I feel like it is out of respect for Mollie, to learn something and make changes, in her honor. I sometimes walk the dog later than I really should. I have made a conscious effort to do it right after dinner, and not closer to 11, like I was doing for awhile. Why tempt fate?

And I always take my phone and my pepper spray when we walk after dark.

I have no idea, but from what we have seen from the Defense lawyer so far, it may be real interesting.

Oh I know. Auntie Bee dropped him on his head when he was small. He witnessed violence in Mexico. He has blackouts as a result. Look at his abnormal PET scans yadayadayada. Nope not his fault GRRRRRRR..............!

 

[Charliegizmo49]

How did LE know the car belonged to CBR? I mean, it’s one thing to have footage of a car that keeps showing up where MT is, but how do they link that car to a guy who isn’t even officially in the country? Do you think they must have shown pics of the car to locals? Or tracked down the registration to someone?

At the very least.

 

[zecats]

LE has stated repeatedly, that they have a timeline they consider solid.
It is my belief, that it will be shown that their timeline begins prior to Mollie disappearing.

Once they had him as a suspect (or in custody), I bet they were able to track his movements from his cell phone that day/night.

 

[NJJohn]

Honestly this is my biggest fear. I hope they have as much physical evidence as they possibly can have and that definitely includes DNA. If she hadn't been raped this may be just about impossible due to her being outside in the elements for 34 days. If she had been raped it does not automatically mean there will be testworthy DNA available from her remains. Not to be disrespectful of MT but the day she was found and I did a search for the decomposition process. In the time frame she was outside and considering weather conditions for 34 days, it's very possible that there may be nothing to test with. Below describes where she was in the process and what can be expected. I do personally believe, no not a doctor but an avid gardener, that the cornstalks and leaves put over her would accelerate the decomposition process due to the dampness. It rained the very day after she went missing and assuming she was killed on the 18th...how many other days did it rain. That provides an environment that would be actively inviting various creatures (beyond insects such as birds of prey or larger animals etc) to assist in removing testable areas of her body. Disgusting to imagine but real.

The Stages of the Human Decomposition Process

""Advanced Decay
From around 25 to 50 days after death, the maggots and other insects complete the breaking down of soft tissues, skin and hair, as well as muscles and connective tissue inside the body. Body cohesion breaks down, exposing bones to the environment and possibly allowing them to roll away and scatter. Insect activity begins to die down, as scavengers consume the last remaining nutrients."

There's electronic evidence as well. If he didn't get rid of her phone until they were well south of 80, then they can get HIS phone pings and place his phone with hers in the car with her and match that to fitbit data that shows her heart rate going bonkers as he's attacking her and possibly even the moment her heart stops. That pretty compelling evidence even without DNA and even if the confession is inadmissible. Imagine a jury seeing record of them travelling in the same car together, her heart rate at first spiking then slowly getting fainter until it stops when she dies in the trunk of the car with him still in it. Is there any way there's any reasonable doubt left?