ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 65

[10ofRods]

bbm
I'm guessing they used "luminol" in both places.

They would have - or something even more sensitive.

I should also mention fiber analysis. It's really hard not to pick up carpet fibers from a car on one's shoes and fibers from the upholstery on one's person. Since we don't see any seat covers in the Indiana traffic stop (that I can see), either he bought some specifically for this crime, or he simply drove his car as normal (my best is on the second thing - this guy is no genius, at least not as regarding real world plans of action).

He would also have picked up fibers inside the house (and dog hair, possibly human hair, etc). Sometimes these things can be pulled out of carpeting (car or home) with a special forensic vacuum. I know he's tried to clean his car, but did he order heavy duty carpet cleaning for his student apartment? If so, that's evidence too.

I won't be surprised if the Albertson's purchases include bleach (his notion of what would destroy DNA) or perhaps something more effective that can be bought at a grocery store, but isn't as well known for this purpose as bleach (which can degrade DNA, but is not a guarantee of getting rid of all of it).

 

[Helechawagirl]

Won't he be kept in solitary?

Might be if on death row?

 

[10ofRods]

Lol.
That could be the case ?

With a crime of this magnitude, I'm surprised someone hasn't taken BK's case pro bono ?

That person would be required by law, in Idaho, to be on the State's registry of lawyers approved for death penalty cases, IMO. He has been advised that this is a possible DP case. He has to have a DP lawyer.

Most well-regarded criminal defense lawyers don't want a lengthy, hard-to-fight DP case that will take them away from their regular practice for years (and might well be in a tiny town in northern Idaho, as opposed to where most such lawyers work - which is in Boise).

Most of the lawyers on the approved list are Public Defenders, as I understand it, but I didn't go look up every lawyers' name (it's been posted here a couple of times).

 

[Sassafrass]

But the State has to offer him that first. If they say we're not accepting any plea bargain except guilty to capital murder and throw yourself on the mercy of the court for sentencing then he has no choice but to go to trial and hope he can convince enough members of the jury that they should spare his life.

Just because he wants to plead guilty to avoid death doesn't mean the State has to agree with it. In a case like this, they might because a trial would be long and expensive so if the only point of contention is death or life without parole, then they might be willing.

The other factor here is the families. While the State is not required to get the families approval to make a deal, they often do as a matter of good taste and post-conviction PR. I say this because SG has been pretty adamant in interviews that he wants BK to face death if convicted. If that's the case, the State could try to convince him a LWOP deal is the best option or if the others agree forge ahead with it. It will be interesting to see how he reacts if that starts to happen.

But for now, the defense has several months to determine how much of the evidence they can attack and if it's in BK's best interests to take their chances on a trial.

The State does not have to offer you the option of pleading guilty. That is your right.

In Idaho, it appears that after a guilty finding (whether by trial or by plea) for matters that could result in a death sentence (murder in first degree), there is a separate investigation and hearing on the sentencing that entails a whole picture of the situation, from defendant's background to victim family statements/impact. Specifically they look for statutory aggravating factors as well as mitigating factors. If there is a statutory aggravating factor (multiple murders is the second one listed, but there are 11 or 12) and any mitigating factors don't exist that, weighed as a whole, would make death an unjust penalty, the sentence is death. If aggravating exists and sufficient mitigating, LWOP. If no aggravating, life (minimum 10 years).

Section 19-2515 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

Mitigation is defined in jury instructions for a DP sentencing hearing this way:

A mitigating factor is any fact or circumstance,
relating to the crime or to the defendant’s state of mind or condition at the time of the crime, or to [his] [her] character, background or record, that tends to suggest that a sentence other than death should be imposed.
A mitigating factor does not have to constitute a
defense or excuse or justification for the crime, nor does it even have to reduce the degree of the defendant’s blame for the crime.
In that regard, my instructions given at the end of the trial that you were not to allow sympathy for the defendant to enter your deliberations do not apply at this sentencing proceeding. Mitigating factors may include any fact or circumstance that inspires sympathy, compassion or mercy for the defendant.
Evidence supporting the existence of a mitigating factor may come from the trial or this sentencing hearing, whether produced by the defendant or the state.

https://isc.idaho.gov/jury/criminal/1700/DeathPenaltySentencingInst-All.pdf

That said, in reality the death penalty even in Idaho is rare, and actual executions rarer still. Most die on death row, or have sentences reduced on appeal, or sometimes exonerated. There hasn't been an execution in Idaho 10 years, and iirc one recently scheduled was canceled for lack of drug availability. They've only carried out 3 executions since 1957 (1994, 2011, 2012). There are 8 people on death row as of December 2022, but although between 2011-2019 there were 173 DP-eligible convictions, only one resulted in a sentence of death.

The Declining Death Penalty in Idaho

Jacqueline Lee earned her Ph.D. in Criminology and Criminal Justice from the University of Maryland...

www.boisestate.edu

DP prosecutions are extremely expensive and politically fraught (likewise death sentences themselves; it is appeal after appeal usually). I doubt the prosecution will take it off the table anytime soon, but I also doubt they really want to ask for a death sentence if they get a guilty. The prosecution has to file a notice of intent to seek the DP, and I'm not clear on when that happens, though I assume it could be withdrawn at any point prior to actual sentencing.

 

[NuttMegg]

A vegan diet can be easily (albeit unhealthily) accomplished in jail. Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are vegan. Pasta with marinara sauce is vegan. Oreos are vegan. Potato chips are vegan. Fruits and veggies are vegan.

I don't like to see him getting preferential treatment as others have said. But he could claim unusual punishment if they provide only meat (?). I doubt he's a vegan these days anyway if he ever was. Did he have an imitation leather sheath? I wish they had proof to call him on it, thru restaurant purchases etc.

 

[TooMuchGun]

Geragos, Says the search warrant being sealed is suspicious. State says if unsealed could compromise the investigation and cause harm to LE. <modsnip - bashing a Websleuths-approved source>


Geragos doubling down on a another suspect imo

 

[Falcon500]

Won't he be kept in solitary?

If convicted? Forever? Certainly not.,Either death row or general,population.

 

[10ofRods]

They asked this very question over and over during the Truth and Reconciliation hearings in South Africa, and then one of their members took it a step further and began doing prison interviews with the men most responsible for the atrocities their people suffered. Pumla Gobodo-Madikizela wrote a book called “A Human Being Died That Night” about what she discovered. Her thoughts on the nature of evil have shaped my thoughts and understanding greatly.

One big takeaway from that book I have is that people who feel no remorse, even when shown the consequences of their actions, have chosen evil over society. People who do feel remorse are not entirely evil and, though the road may be long, might have some possibility of fitting into society again (even from prison).

We recently read a book called "Gomorrah" by Roberto Saviano, who now has to live in hiding because he wrote about his native city of Naples and its organized crime. It's a phenomenal read and mind-blowing. I will never look at organized crime in the same way, but the fact that so many are recruited into these jobs at a very early age and completely throw both conscience and caution to the wind is what amazed me.

I was struck by what I would call a "culture of Evil," in that the ideals taught to children about killing and dying are so depraved and perverse. Some of the more reliable assassins were kids. Yet, we know from other research that most kids at age 3-4 show a well-developed sense of (toddler-ish) right and wrong. Deliberate corruption of children is itself evil and that's what's going on in Saviano's world.

I am going to check out your book. Gobodo-Madikizela must have nerves of steel.

 

[Vaderman]

I know this is going to get me some heat but...I don't quite understand the snarky stance that BK was an idiot. Sure, he got caught. But, if he is guilty, he also committed a crime that the majority of society wouldn't even contemplate, did evade capture for quite awhile, and, given his education background, if guilty of the crimes, is probably basking in the notoriety.

Not backing the guy; given what's shown, I certainly believe him to be the guy. But I don't quite understand the dismissive attitude considering his intelligence surrounding his alleged actions.

 

[TL4S]

I'm sure anything is possible but I would be more inclined to think he was running through his mental preparations/plan, working up the courage to execute his plan or waiting for lights to be turned off as a signal that his intended victim(s) were asleep.

I agree he was likely waiting for lights out. I think he wanted the advantage of a sneak attack without confrontation, and imo, he used the darkness and a giant knife to achieve this. I don't find his 3:29 - 4:04 back and forth odd considering that we know at least X was awake and had ordered DD. I doubt she was sitting in the dark waiting for them to arrive, and I don't think BK was going to enter through the sliding glass door into a lit kitchen/house. I'm also wondering if X had the porch light on for DD. If anything, I think his half-hour of driving back and forth by the house before the murders suggests his resolution to carry through with it that morning.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Me too. And of course, many of us are asking: WHY?

I see generational markers (of a sort) for this (as compared, say to Ted Bundy). What makes a Kohberger (assuming he's done what many of us believe he's done)? What makes a Bundy? What makes a Joe DeAngelo?

Lots of people had awful childhoods (killed no one). Some people have VSS (killed no one). Some people are schizophrenic (killed no one).

Lots of people have life stress (kill no one).

And when people do kill others who are close to them, we can kind of understand that familial stress added up and one person broke.

Why does someone go find and kill four innocent people they don't know?

Total mystery still.

One thing that seems common, not just to Bundy and DeAngelo and Kohberger but to spectacle murderers like post-Columbine school shooters: they don't see the value of the lives of other people (and animals) beyond what those beings can do for them. That's how a Chris Watts can annihilate his whole family because he's infatuated with his mistress. The wife and kids are in the way. It's how Susan Smith can drown her kids for the same reason. The kids were fine when they gave them society's approval but not when they were in the way of some other desire. It's how Eric Harris can plot to kill hundreds of people because as he said in his journal he hated people and wanted to destroy the world. It's a kind of metastasized arrogance, a god complex if you will. They see themselves as entitled to decide who lives, who dies. While some of these people have rather mundane reasons for murder (a lover, an insurance payout) someone like Eric Harris or BK wants to experience "god-likeness." What does it feel like to take a life? To snuff out youth, beauty, safety, security, the future?
My opinion only.




This is in no way to trivialize

 

[eloquence]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

Also, some of the visual snow posts brought up ad nauseum on prior threads discuss his attempts to use diet to help his symptoms... he posted about ridding the body of toxins and such. Perhaps a diet/health thing more than an animal welfare campaign for him.

 

[jepop]

Lol.. when I hear or see the word Chloroform my mind goes straight to frogs .
Just my opinion. Also confirms my own speculation that people, myself included, can view things differently or have different interpretations of words. My opinion

Yea is interesting, I just pictured chloroform and Agatha Christie popped up, shortly followed by a twinge of annoyance at how its spelt.

 

[10ofRods]

I’ve been to several frat parties (in the past) where anyone is welcome Including guys from other frats.

Same (but it was a looong time ago). Still, I have it on good authority that the frats at my old university are still as welcoming to outsiders as ever (it seemed to be the point of their parties, to me - very open to the rest of the campus). However, I know little about Greek Life at U of Idaho, which seems it might be different.

Also, many frats still have slightly older members who come to parties or even still living there. So I don't regard BK being 28 (and appearing younger in his actions) to be automatically excluded from wandering through a frat party (depends on the frat, I suppose).

The idea that these student parties maintain order and discipline throughout the night is something upon which I'd need to see more evidence.

I know this is going to get me some heat but...I don't quite understand the snarky stance that BK was an idiot. Sure, he got caught. But, if he is guilty, he also committed a crime that the majority of society wouldn't even contemplate, did evade capture for quite awhile, and, given his education background, if guilty of the crimes, is probably basking in the notoriety.

Not backing the guy; given what's shown, I certainly believe him to be the guy. But I don't quite understand the dismissive attitude considering his intelligence surrounding his alleged actions.

He was considered "brilliant" by one young professor who never met him, that's for sure. And the students in his WSU program say that he was highly intelligent, always joined in intellectual discussion, but apparently espoused his own ideas to a fairly extreme degree, not budging for anyone else's.

The dismissive action is the result of early press and commentary indicating that he was a "genius" or something. He's definitely above average in intelligence (about which I've posted several times and after reading all of his teenage TapATalk posts, I'm convinced he's definitely high normal intelligence, but probably not a genius).

At any rate, it's all the truly puzzling mistakes he made that are driving the mockery and comments here. He takes his own car to his planned murders and drives it around in front of multiple neighbor cameras for an hour before attacking. He turns off his phone AFTER he leaves his Pullman apartment, then turns it back on just 20 minutes after the murders (heading south from where the murders occurred, being caught on MORE cameras). Why did he even take his phone?? Why did he not leave it off the whole time? He goes back to the murder scene almost immediately!

These are mistakes that no criminal genius would make, they are the mistakes of an ordinary person who isn't as smart about crime as they've led people to believe in the classroom. Hence, people are attempting to knock him down a peg.

 

[NuttMegg]

Although not a popular opinion, I think he cleaned the knife sheath ahead of time and deliberately planted it on the bed. I think he did it to make it "the knife sheath murders". Planning on leaving NO DNA on it. And then do another similar murder at some point in the future.

Most people think him doing that would be a truly stupid move. And I agree! But remember, he thinks he is an expert in criminological investigations.

The Bozo the Clown move he made was that when he cleaned it (probably with isopropyl alcohol), he did a wipe down instead of a dunking the whole sheath in solution. Normally, there would be DNA all over that sheath, everywhere.

I'll eat my words if my guess is wrong.

Your theory may be right, but I don't see anything in his online masters and undergrad psychology degree that would make me think of him as an expert in criminological investigations, even though he may think of himself in that way.

First semester Ph.D student recommended by his online prof who thought he was brilliant? And who never met him?

I see him more as someone who was coddled and never had to take responsibility.

 

[NoseyRecluse]

Most likely, you had chloral hydrate, not chloroform.

Chloral hydrate is no longer available for medical use, but was formerly frequently used in kids.

Chloroform works well in movies, but has never been clinically used on people.

Well, there goes my theory.

 

[MntnHiker]

One interesting takeaway/clarification from the 20/20 special to me (sorry if this was already mentioned) came from KG's mom. She said in an interview that there was not one long-term stalker that KG told them about. It was instead things like "I'm in line at the store and there's a guy behind me acting weird" etc. She never reported it to police or anything and was different, separate occurrences out in public.

Hearing that and hearing that LE looked into a stalker for KG and didn't find one, I don't think she was being stalked by anyone besides BK and I don't personally think she was aware she was actually potentially being stalked by BK. I think she was a very intuitive young woman who was aware of her surroundings and listened to her gut, which are great things to have. I think she was alert to anyone around her giving her a bad vibe. That's the gist I got from what her mom explained in the interview.

Source: the 20/20 special that aired this past Friday. I watched it on Hulu, so not sure how to link to anything.

 

[maskedwoman]

If he did murder the students could it be that he didn't start out with that in mind and maybe he was just imagining what it would be like to plan a murder. But then something set him off and he lost control and in a compulsive rage ended up in a fit of desperation murdering four people. Not even following what partial plan he was working on? Becoming so careless he gave no thought to the consequences of his actions. Thus leaving a trail of breadcrumbs of incriminating evidence behind that would seal his fate. I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe he never intended for things to go that far. I'm reaching for an explanation for his carelessness because I believe he knew better than to set himself up like he did. JMO

I can't imagine a scenario where someone not intending to murder anyone takes a knife with a 7-inch blade into a house while everyone is sleeping. IMO, once he crossed the threshold of that house, he exited planning territory entirely and entered the committing a felony territory. JMOO

 

[gliving]

A somewhat interesting article from Realtor.com. It's mostly about what happens to houses where a serious crime has occured. What caught my eye was the part saying 1122's utilities and internet were include in the rent. Would that mean the landlord provided the modem? Was 1122's internet secured or could others tap in?

What Will Happen to the Idaho Home Where 4 College Students Were Murdered?

The future of the Idaho house where four University of Idaho students were murdered remains uncertain. This is what typically happens.

www.realtor.com

The Moscow home, built in 1959 on a hillside, was renovated in 2019 and a new kitchen, two new bathrooms, and new flooring were installed, according to the listing. There were entrances on the first and second floors.

The house was last listed for rent on Realtor.com for $2,495 a month in February 2020. The listing boasted a “perfect floor plan” with two bedrooms and a bathroom on each of the three floors, with a top-floor deck and a new patio. The kitchen and living room were on the second floor. The home also offered parking and laundry. Utilities and internet service had been included in the rent.

Three of the murdered students were among the six who signed a lease beginning on June 5 to live in the house, according to the Idaho Statesman. The two roommates who lived on the first floor were unharmed, and the sixth person on the lease was not living in the home at the time of the murders.

How to See Who's On Your Wi-Fi

Is your internet sluggish? If you suspect a neighbor is stealing your Wi-Fi, here's how to identify devices using your connection and boot them off.

www.pcmag.com

If someone has access to your network, they have access to all the computers on that network, and that's dangerous. They could access files you're unknowingly sharing, they could infect you with malware, and in certain situations they could even steal your passwords and other personal information.

 

[Which_pancake]

I can't imagine a scenario where someone not intending to murder anyone takes a knife with a 7-inch blade into a house while everyone is sleeping. IMO, once he crossed the threshold of that house, he exited planning territory entirely and entered the committing a felony territory. JMOO

The minute he switched off his phone is when he left planning territory IMO