ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 65

[MrB327]

I just took a little google maps drive along Indian Hills Road.

The 700 block has a nice overlook view to the south, over an airport and open fields.

I can picture BK driving out there to have a psychological "moment" -- either to work up courage, or to try to talk himself out of it. Or even just to pass time if he arrived in town earlier than his schedule said to go to King Rd.

It may have zero to do with what is there in terms of people or houses, just a quiet spot for reflection.

Entirely speculation and MOO

...or to put on his murder outfit

 

[303gmf]

*if* they had forced air, it might have also been a boiler, hot water baseboards. I wish we knew what kind of heat they used.

Electric is what I remember reading early on

 

[10ofRods]

Do my fellow sleuth friends know when will be the next large info release from LE? I can’t wait to see more! I believe LE has tons of info already!

Original warrants (maybe) unsealed on March 1? I think.

Otherwise, we wait until June. Unless some person involved decides to speak out.

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[Whatif1964]

MOO He did not know where his indulgence of his stalking would lead him those previous times.

And then suddenly, on that fateful night, acts almost frenzied and frantic in his behavior, driving by the house and the vehicle turn-arounds and indecisiveness. Almost, IMO, as if he was running out of time. Could it have been K randomly showing back up to Kings Road, after her absence, while she was at her parents?

 

[YepperBepper]

I have the opposite take. If he's not guilty, I can see myself being physically ill by what he's been through at this point (and his family). We have no evidence the account on TAT was him (please correct me if I'm wrong with a citation confirming) and even if it was, his personal health issues are personal and it's not okay for us to judge how he handles that. I'm not sure what you mean by "these people" if he's not guilty, but I disagree with the implication that even if not guilty of any crime, he needed to be identified and forced to get help.

All of that only applies if he's not guilty, of course. And MOO.

Always, in the back of my mind is the case of Julie Rea and of course, Richard Jewell.

You think you know/knew, then find out you that don't/didn't.

Imho

 

[Pipersand]

WS - the life we all know, BK does not appear to have shared. From your comments, it seems he may have realized he was different. Isolated, awkward, emotionally tortured, rejected, socially inept, perhaps with incessant dark thoughts. What did he have to lose? By committing this evil crime, he would at least have answers to questions that may have plagued him - what does it feel like? Would he feel powerful? Is this who he is? And if he were to be caught, and incarcerated - where is the change? He is still isolated and rejected and alone, but maybe now with others like him and maybe with answers. I think he did not see our victims as anything more than a means to know himself. I don't believe he saw their amazing value, their beautiful faces, their bright future and I don't believe he cared at all about them. They were simply the means to a selfish end and and once his discordance reached a certain level, he proceeded. It just makes me so sad.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

The dad helped BK move in? So, does that mean he drove out with BK and then flew back, the opposite of what they did at Christmas? Or, something else?

I think the older threads had many people suspecting this is exactly what he did. Several of us (myself included) found this pretty ordinary and relatable so it wouldn't surprise me if this is what happened. JMO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Always, in the back of my mind is the case of Julie Rea and of course, Richard Jewell.

You think you know/knew, then find out you that don't/didn't.

Imho

Exactly what I'm afraid of in this case.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I find that piece of the timeline really spooky as in brush with death spooky.

Me too. That delivery guy is the second luckiest person alive, next to Dylan.

 

[10ofRods]

I have the opposite take. If he's not guilty, I can see myself being physically ill by what he's been through at this point (and his family). We have no evidence the account on TAT was him (please correct me if I'm wrong with a citation confirming) and even if it was, his personal health issues are personal and it's not okay for us to judge how he handles that. I'm not sure what you mean by "these people" if he's not guilty, but I disagree with the implication that even if not guilty of any crime, he needed to be identified and forced to get help.

All of that only applies if he's not guilty, of course. And MOO.

If he's innocent, I think he should have availed himself of every opportunity to declare that.

It's the best defense. Shout to the rooftops that you DID NOT do it. Do not waive your right to a speedy trial.

See the New York Times for why TapATalk is a valid source - just as one example. Is the NYT a "citation" in your view? Or does it need to be in an academic journal - because it's too soon for that.

People who reveal their health issues on social media have no expectation to a right of privacy, IMO.

FORCED to get help? How??? How do we (either as individuals or as a society) force people to "get help"? Even family members cannot force such things except under rare circumstances. Getting a psychiatrist to do an involuntary hold is not easy (although IMPO, it's likely he has had some kind of either involuntary or highly unavoidable "rehab" in the past).

Whether or not he's guilty, he could still need help. And in many states, could seek it (but harder in Idaho).

Health issues are not personal if we announce them on social media - people here discuss their health daily and we say, "Oh, I'm so sorry" or "Oh, I had that too and this is what worked for me!" Etc.

I can discuss my own health in public whenever I want - as did BK. IMO.

 

[Sillybilly]

How does InsudeLooking and Pappa Rodger fit into this? Are they WS verified sources or something different?

They are not WS verified sources but are approved for discussion. Please see earlier Admin Note:

ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 58

Same. You'd have to leave off many ingredients for vegan options. Like a person being told the gluten-free option for a burger is having it served between lettuce leaves. Plus, if he wanted the limited number of vegan dishes MG serves, there are three locations of Yia Yia Nikki in Pullman...

www.websleuths.com

 

[jcamh]

How does InsudeLooking and Pappa Rodger fit into this? Are they WS verified sources or something different?

Those are two online personalities who were posting specific details about this case that were not known yet. Papa Rodger had a terse conversation with another person about the sheath being left. It was so intense that the other person said Papa Rodger sounded like a serial killer and he called him creepy.

 

[r3d-ros3]

The person posting as InsideLooking and Pappa Rodger says that X and M were the perp's targets. Not a strong link, but a link.

FWIW, someone on another platform debunked that InsideLooking was BK based on the timing of certain online activity. I won't go into too much detail, but I was pretty convinced based on the information they found regarding that specific account's online activity during BK's trip to PA and after his arrest. I suppose the account could still have a connection to the case or some kind of insider information, but I don't think that InsideLooking is BK.

Can it be 100% confirmed at this point? No, probably not, but I thought I would mention it.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

If he's innocent, I think he should have availed himself of every opportunity to declare that.

It's the best defense. Shout to the rooftops that you DID NOT do it. Do not waive your right to a speedy trial.

See the New York Times for why TapATalk is a valid source - just as one example. Is the NYT a "citation" in your view? Or does it need to be in an academic journal - because it's too soon for that.

I haven't seen the NYT confirming that is him. Did they? Yes, they're a citation. No, I never brought up an academic journal (not sure where that came from).

People who reveal their health issues on social media have no expectation to a right of privacy, IMO.

FORCED to get help? How??? How do we (either as individuals or as a society) force people to "get help"? Even family members cannot force such things except under rare circumstances. Getting a psychiatrist to do an involuntary hold is not easy (although IMPO, it's likely he has had some kind of either involuntary or highly unavoidable "rehab" in the past).

So, context matters. I was responding to someone who specifically said that he/she doesn't feel sorry for BK because "In a perfect world, these people would be identified and given help earlier or separated from innocent society. In either case, I'm thankful that BK has surfaced to the public's attention. He needed exposure."

To me, that implies people like BK need to be identified and seek treatment or else be shunned from society until they get it. I didn't mean "force" as in a court order, but "force" as in societal pressure.

Whether or not he's guilty, he could still need help. And in many states, could seek it (but harder in Idaho).

Health issues are not personal if we announce them on social media - people here discuss their health daily and we say, "Oh, I'm so sorry" or "Oh, I had that too and this is what worked for me!" Etc.

I can discuss my own health in public whenever I want - as did BK. IMO.

I disagree wholeheartedly. If you post something 5 years ago about your health, that doesn't mean the public has a right to your personal health decisions for the rest of your life. If BK is not guilty, it's none of our business whether or not he seeks help for VSS or any other health ailments he may suffer from.

MOO.

 

[jcamh]

Me too. That delivery guy is the second luckiest person alive, next to Dylan.

1: Murphy, 2: Dylan, 3: Door Dash guy, 4:BF, 5: JD (good thing he was asleep when KC and MM were calling him to come over). 6: MM's boyfriend. I've wondered why it's never been said why he and Maddie weren't together that night. 7: Hoodie Guy - with so much suspicion on him, his general safety had to be in potential jeopardy from the general public.

 

[10ofRods]

Exactly what I'm afraid of in this case.

Can you say why? They seem so different to me, and I'd really love to know why you think that.

And then suddenly, on that fateful night, acts almost frenzied and frantic in his behavior, driving by the house and the vehicle turn-arounds and indecisiveness. Almost, IMO, as if he was running out of time. Could it have been K randomly showing back up to Kings Road, after her absence, while she was at her parents?

There are some things that Pappa Rodger/redacted say that make me think they are trying to float an alibi for themselves (BK). But there's no way to know.

InsideLooking says the targets were X and M. (So does that mean that K was the target?)

Since InsideLooking and Pappa Rodger generally say the same things, almost in unison, I believe. Same word choices.

Since Kaylee was driving an entirely different car, I don't think he knew she was there (unless he was watching the Grub Truck video - which LE would know by now; what a bombshell that would be).

 

[realanastasia]

Topics I'll be thinking about until we hear more:

3. THE BATHROOM
Why does the affidavit (p2) mention the upstairs bathroom and the wall it shares with MMs bedroom? I mean it's not exactly smooth, the way it comes up:
"I later learned there was a dog in the room when Moscow PD officers initially responded. The dog belonged to KG and her ex-boyfriend JD. Ofc Smith the pointed out a small bathroom on the east side of the third floor. The bathroom shared a wall with MM bedroom which was situated on the south-east corner on the third floor. As I entered the bedroom, I could see two females in the single bed in the room."

I think he had a specific motive, was fuelled by rage, acted irrationally that night due to a specific trigger and maybe had been stalking at least one of them via some sort of audio/video recording devices on their car(s) and/or in the HVAC system. I also think the crime scene was more graphic than just stabbing and probably only towards one victim with also possibly a trophy of some sort collected.

All MOO unless linked data.

OK, I am having second thoughts about what might’ve precipitated the violent murders of K and M, having initially rejected this idea because it just seemed so unlikely to me for reasons I will explain in a second, but (this is all my conjecture/hypothesis and opinion, though I think certain parts of the record [as we know it so far] support it):

If we take the AA‘s statement about K and M being found in a “single bed” to mean, literally, a twin-sized (small) bed and not, as some have suggested, to merely mean “the only bed in the room” AND we take into consideration BK’s anti-gay/homophobic attitude, anecdotal evidence of which was provided by some of BK’s former grad school colleagues, might not BK have been utterly enraged to discover in the third-floor bedroom not only two conventionally-attractive women who (he might assume) wouldn’t look twice at him as a prospective romantic partner but two women whose sharing of one bed might’ve indicated to him that they were romantically/sexually interested in each other?

I am not at all suggesting that K and M WERE actually romantically or sexually involved with each other (and, as a queer woman myself, I hope you will understand that I am also not saying there’d be anything at all wrong with it if they were!), only that it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if a deeply homophobic and misogynistic person like BK allegedly was (again, this is per the anecdotes of his classmates/former associates) would read the presence of two adult women in one tiny bed (whose size would almost guarantee there was some level of physical proximity/closeness between the women) as “evidence” that they were sexually interested in each other. This scene could have seemed like a real slap in the face to an insecure, incel-adjacent narcissist (I am using that term in the colloquial, not diagnostic, sense so please leave me out of the “misuse of the DSM” gatekeeping discussion) and could very well have enraged him to the point of savage brutality against both K and M.

As far as why I initially rejected this idea: my mother kept asking me if I didn’t think the boatload of photos released to the public that showed K and M physically intertwined with each other indicated they might be “more than friends” (her words, not mine). I said that (based on my 20+ years as a college instructor) these poses weren’t at all uncommon for young women of that age, especially women in sororities, and told her she was reading too much into these images. But, in light of what we know about BK’s attitudes towards both women AND LGBTQIA+ people, I am starting to wonder if perhaps I’M the one who might’ve been misreading the images (or, at the very least, the one who was wrong to automatically foreclose on the possibility that their close friendship might’ve included some level of physical/romantic affection).

Again, this is all just my speculation based on certain parts of the record, but as far as guessing at what could’ve motivated this milquetoast misogynist to commit such brutality against K and A, it seems to me as plausible a theory as any other.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I have the opposite take. If he's not guilty, I can see myself being physically ill by what he's been through at this point (and his family). We have no evidence the account on TAT was him (please correct me if I'm wrong with a citation confirming) and even if it was, his personal health issues are personal and it's not okay for us to judge how he handles that. I'm not sure what you mean by "these people" if he's not guilty, but I disagree with the implication that even if not guilty of any crime, he needed to be identified and forced to get help.

All of that only applies if he's not guilty, of course. And MOO.

I do believe the account was his and so does NY Times: Idaho Murders Suspect Felt ‘No Emotion’ and ‘Little Remorse’ as a Teen
I'm not judging how he handles his health issues and don't see what I said to imply that.
By "these people" I mean those who write words like this,
“I feel like an organic sack of meat with no self worth,” he wrote in 2011, when he was 16, adding later, in the same post: “As I hug my family, I look into their faces, I see nothing, it is like I am looking at a video game, but less.” (Same site quote.)
I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want a person who thinks like this to be provided help?!?!!

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Can you say why? They seem so different to me, and I'd really love to know why you think that.

Again, I'm saying IF. I was responding to someone saying that even if he didn't do it, he needed the exposure. I disagree with that opinion and that's what I'm trying to say.

I think he's guilty. But everyone thought Richard Jewell was guilty too so that's in the back of my mind.

JMO

 

[10ofRods]

I haven't seen the NYT confirming that is him. Did they? Yes, they're a citation. No, I never brought up an academic journal (not sure where that came from).



So, context matters. I was responding to someone who specifically said that he/she doesn't feel sorry for BK because "In a perfect world, these people would be identified and given help earlier or separated from innocent society. In either case, I'm thankful that BK has surfaced to the public's attention. He needed exposure."

To me, that implies people like BK need to be identified and seek treatment or else be shunned from society until they get it. I didn't mean "force" as in a court order, but "force" as in societal pressure.




I disagree wholeheartedly. If you post something 5 years ago about your health, that doesn't mean the public has a right to your personal health decisions for the rest of your life. If BK is not guilty, it's none of our business whether or not he seeks help for VSS or any other health ailments he may suffer from.

MOO.

In my world, the word "citation" means an academic source.

At any rate, some of us are accepting the NYT reporting on how people know the TapATalk is BK.

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