ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 11

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Great info! Do you have any idea how many blood samples they should have taken to have a chance of getting mixed DNA, keeping in mind there were 4 victims and likely a lot of blood? I’ve been a little concerned that the chief said they collected 103 pieces of evidence. I would think that each swab would be considered one piece of evidence and since I’m sure they collected a ton more evidence than blood swabs, I wonder how much of those 103 pieces were blood swabs. I worry they don’t have enough samples to provide them with a perp’s DNA if it were there.

I was concerned by that 103 pieces of evidence, too. And the chief sounded as though he thought it was a lot.

So, I wondered if ‘evidence’ meant large solid things, computers, phones, any article of male clothing, any knives, etc., etc.

And, I wondered if things like swabs for blood, etc., were in a separate category, and that he didn’t mention that because he did NOT want to talk about DNA, for strategic reasons.

All this entirely my speculation
 
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Interview with Kaylee's Dad, Sister and Brother.

Reporter - How you guys doing?.

Dad - It's not real yet, I'm a bit in denial. I'm hoping for justice, that's why I'm trying to switch myself into that mode, to trying to find justice, that's where I'm at.

Reporter - I get it, S, A?.

Brother - I just know my sister, she was a hard worker and just sitting in my bed and crying myself to sleep isn't going to do her any justice, and that's not what she'd want me to do. She'd want me to stay active and doing what I can to spread her message and hope that we can find this suspect or suspects and that's how I feel.

Reporter - I get it, I get it. She's got a great smile, we'll keep showing that picture. I know your family's been frustrated with the investigation so far. Understandably so. Here we are a week out and really not much information about this, does not appear to be a suspect. Tell me, A, what specifically you've been frustrated with?. Because you did your own work here, for instance, you found video of the food truck, for example, where two of the victims were seen the same night as this killing.

Sister - Yeah, I would say I think that, obviously, this is extremely person for us and we treated it that way from the very get go. I know how valuable those first 48, 72 hrs. are and I can only hope that the police also know how valuable that is, and that they have a lot of information there that just isn't public right now. I will say the one lingering frustration I have, is the timeline. I know it's semantics but my sister's got home at 1:56, it wasn't 1:45. I know it might not seem significant but when we're looking for camera, when we're looking for dash footage, when we're looking for any of those things, I do feel that it is valuable and they did get home at 1:56, it was not 1:45.

Reporter - Right, there's one detail there. Kaylee's mother has said she believes that the suspect, the killer, is someone Kaylee knew very well and that the killer might even be at the vigil. Remarkable, I wonder, S, do you share that view?

Dad - It's speculation. My daughter was very popular. It seemed like everyone that I talked to said she knew everyone. They had parties, they were college kids. They were about to graduate. Somebody could've partied in the house and got an idea or had the confidence to pull that off.

Reporter - This question of a stalker and I'm very conscious with this story of how many rumours have been circulating and a lot of those rumours turn out not to be true but, S, this discussion of the possibility she may have had a stalker - have police been able to stand that up or not?. They seem to be knocking that down.

Sister - Yeah, it seems to be knocked down. Obviously, any of that information would be new to us as well. Kaylee facetimed me, she didn't call of text, she facetimed me for literally hours, almost every single day. And she was extremely cautious, she was very vigilant. I think that if she really would've noticed something, then she would have said it to us. She wasn't scared for us to be involved in her life in any capacity like that.

Reporter - I know you're frustrated with how much and how information developments in the investigation are being shared with the public. Are they sharing anything with you that they're not sharing publicly, in light of the fact that this was your sister, this was your daughter?.

Dad - I'm not getting anything. They're not sharing much with me. I know that there's a separation in duties there. They do have the FBI now, so I don't know how much the individuals that I'm talking with, which are the local, are actually exercising their different jurisdictions. I think they might not know a lot because they have briefings and if they haven't had a briefing they probably don't know exactly what's going on.

Reporter - Are they contacting you at all?. Are they keeping you updated, more so than they are than on the website or with these press briefings?

Dad - To be honest, they're not. Yesterday, I asked about the stalker question and they couldn't confirm anything and then today I hear they're reaching out to the community saying that there's a stalker involved. So, I don't know what to make of that.

Brother - They're just so vague with everything that they say and then they slowly peel back layer into layer until you find the real story. It all started with a sharp edged weapon. What was the use in telling the community that a sharp edged weapon was used, instead of just coming out and telling us that it was a knife from the beginning?. I don't understand the purpose of being so vague. You're not holding the integrity of the case together by not telling anybody, anything.

Reporter - I understand you have frustrations for how police and investigators have handled the crime scene. What are those frustrations specifically?.

Dad - They expanded it and there was volunteers that walked around and they disclosed that they were looking and found different things. So, you know, they did share with me that that may have more to do with keeping cameras out than it actually does with evidence gathering. So, I hope that that is indeed the case, because it would be pretty disheartening, a week later, to know that they didn't have the right crime scene.

Reporter - The mother of one of the surviving roommates, reminding our viewers, there were two roommates who were upstairs and survived this, told a reporter that those roommates heard something, heard something that night. Have you been told?. Have you heard from sharing with other relatives of the other victims what that was exactly?.

Sister - No, I would say for us that, we did hear those rumours but, right now, we can only leave it at that. None of that has ever been confirmed to us.

Brother - We haven't spoken to the roommates, surviving roommates. And they were downstairs, just to clarify that for you, sir.

Reporter - Ok, downstairs right?. On a different floor from where, it appears, where the murders took place. One consistent thing, and granted there's been some changes as you know, in how the police have described this, one consistent descriptor has been that the attack was targeted. Do you know if police believe one person in the house was the target of this attack or all four?.

Dad - I've been told it's one, but then again there's the vagueness. It's like purposefully vague, I'm hoping, but it confuses everyone because nobody knows what that really means. Other than, maybe, somebody had a different kind of attack, footprint. So, I feel like we just want some more... we all want to play a part in helping and we can't play a part if we don't have any real substantial information to work from.

Reporter - Yeah, I get it, you want to help. I mean, A, you found video that has been helpful in this investigation. I'm sure you do want to help. Has anyone indicated to you that if it was indeed one person targeted - Was Kaylee the target?. Has anybody shared that with you?.

Sister - They won't confirm who that was to us.

Dad - I heard the rumours that that's the case, but it's just a rumour at this point.

Brother - Tons and tons of rumours but nothing from the police.

Sister - And honestly, I think a lot of those rumours stem from all of the vagueness and it's human nature to want answers. It's human nature to, kind of, put forth a theory so that it can.. you can even comprehend it in your brain and so I think that's how we're getting some of these really, really off the wall theories and some of these theories like - Kaylee had a stalker that even we're sitting here, scratching our heads saying 'no, it couldn't be'. If it was it would be news to us.

Reporter - I am sure it is frustrating. Your family has been very outspoken in support of J, he's Kaylee's ex-boyfriend and on the Moscow Police website though, he is not listed, notably, as someone who's been cleared in the investigation. To your knowledge, is that significant?.

Sister - No. I don't personally think so, because I think that there's the entire rest of the world that's also not on that list of people who've been cleared, including Maddie's boyfriend, including any associates of Xana or Ethan, that might not be involved. I don't find that significant at all.

Reporter - And there were a number of phone calls to him that night, and you say that would have been typical behaviour for Kaylee, that she often would call friends, folks, you know, for a whole bunch of things.

Sister - At any time, yeah, multiple times until I would pick up at 3 am. and be like 'Kaylee, what?'.

Dad - And some of the last footage of her, at that food truck, she's on her phone 24/7 filming the whole thing. So, she lived on that phone.

Reporter - It sounds like you're saying here that the delays in sharing Information, the delays in.. well frankly, making more progress on the investigation mean the police have lost their best opportunity, right?. I think, A, you were saying that those early hours and days are key. That's when you can make real progress. Do you believe that they've missed their best chance here or may have?.

Brother - Not only is that not a matter of opinion, that's a matter of fact. If you look statistically at homicide cases, those first ten days are so incredibly important in finding a suspect. They determine, almost nine out of 10 times, I believe it was, (inaudible) they find a suspect. So yeah, that's not very encouraging to hear that they want to cast this wide net of suspects now and people we know have no involvement.

(video cuts off abruptly)
Let me start out by saying, I can't even imagine what these families are going through. So this is just an opinion, and maybe I would do exactly the same in their situation....but I wish they would stop criticizing the police and investigators. They are hurting and upset, I totally get that. But if the opposite was occurring, and there were many leaks from the investigation and police, that would be extremely harmful to the investigation, arrests, and trials of the guilty person (s). I really hope they step back and allow them to do their job. I hope they maybe stay out of the media and/or assign a family spokesperson with public statements.
 
What is everyone thinking about the surviving roommates getting matching angel tattoos with the initials of the 4 dead and posting it on social media? Weird? kids today?

I thought they were Ethan’s siblings but I was corrected that it’s the two survivors so now it’s sitting weird with me.
I think it’s beautiful!
 
When one says this isn't a rage killing, I am not sure what that means. I think a knife was used because it was quiet. But, also because I believe the killer wanted his victims to know they were being murdered, and it was very personal. It is almost like a serial killer but not a serial killer. To murder four people this way takes a lot of anger. Another reason to kill people in this manner is to send a message. But that also emanates from anger or retribution.
 
When LE said this at the presser -
"what you don't see being as important as what you do see"

I wonder if some of us are reading too much into that statement when we think that could mean the perp took something from the home. When he said that, he was asking everyone to check their home security cameras, etc. I took it to mean that a neighbor may look at their security camera feed and think they don't see anything of importance, but there may be something important on it that police would be able to spot.

I assumed that a security camera that showed NOTHING happening was still valuable to the police—it might be one direction the killer didn’t take, which would narrow down the possibilities.
 
Looking at the floor layout, questions arise about who they were targeting. Assuming they entered through the 2nd floor sliding door (I don't see them risk getting seen while entering the third floor bedroom directly through the sliding door)
1. If they were only after X or E, there would have been no reason to go to the third floor. The fact that they killed people on two levels leads me to believe that this was more a thrill kill than a targeted attack on only one individual.
2. If they were after K or M, they could have easily gone up the stairs to the third floor, without going back into the bedroom where X and E were. If K or M were the target, the only reason I'd see for them to kill XE would be if they didn't know who was in each room. This would point me towards someone who was not familiar with the house and room assignments.

On a different subject of what LE walked into, I wonder if things were staged to look like a murder suicide. That's what went through my head when LE announced that there was no threat to public safety so quickly. I realize the murder weapon hasn't been found, but they could have easily taken a knife from the kitchen to set the scene, and it could explain why LE didn't immediately react to potential evidence outside of the house.

All MOO

This is considering they know who is where in the house. They could have been out for the women upstairs, but not know where their bedroom was.
 
I, too, see this as a RAGE killing. But, didn't LE allude that this may have been a crime of passion killing. But, aren't the two the same thing? They kind of go hand in hand.

Sort of like Jodi Arias..her raging/CofP killing of Travis.

How do you distinguish between the 2 in a case like this?
Hi there!

I’m a law student and just wanted to clear up some terminology. A crime of passion means it happened in the moment and was not premeditated. It’s a term used to describe that you had no cooling off period and you just “snapped” essentially. In most jurisdictions, it takes a 2nd degree murder down to manslaughter. I’m not sure why this term was ever used because targeted attack by definition means it was not a crime of passion. Rage killing could mean anything, it’s not an actual term used in the legal field. Hope this helps!
 
OK..You can see them from this view on Google Street View. I'm just saying when someone is using Google to decide whether to "break into a home" or "be a peeping tom" etc, it's hard to see the balconies/screendoor from Google. (Hence it would be a pass) So the perp must have been local and familiar with the house in person/real life.

I'm always checking out things in Google maps...
I am always checking out stuff on maps too. The first thing I did when I found the address was check aerial and street. I just like to see the lay of the land. I get fascinated with looking at possible entrance/exit paths, looking for cameras etc.
Much like how some here are discussing the layout of the home. Which is awesome! Yet somehow I don't have much intrest in that lol.
 
What is everyone thinking about the surviving roommates getting matching angel tattoos with the initials of the 4 dead and posting it on social media? Weird? kids today?

I thought they were Ethan’s siblings but I was corrected that it’s the two survivors so now it’s sitting weird with me.
I think the tatts are cool. I can't fathom what those two girls must be feeling. Why is it sitting weird with you?
 
What is everyone thinking about the surviving roommates getting matching angel tattoos with the initials of the 4 dead and posting it on social media? Weird? kids today?

I thought they were Ethan’s siblings but I was corrected that it’s the two survivors so now it’s sitting weird with me.

I don't find it overly unusual and it's just young people trying to process grief and deal with an awful tragedy.

After the Humboldt bus crash, quite a few young people got tattoos in memory of their deceased friends and family members. One actually had a portion of a heart monitor readout from their family member tattooed on their arm.

For us, this an interesting event that has caught our attention but it's impossible to know how someone else should process grief or deal with an event that will affect them for a very long time.
 
Let me start out by saying, I can't even imagine what these families are going through. So this is just an opinion, and maybe I would do exactly the same in their situation....but I wish they would stop criticizing the police and investigators. They are hurting and upset, I totally get that. But if the opposite was occurring, and there were many leaks from the investigation and police, that would be extremely harmful to the investigation, arrests, and trials of the guilty person (s). I really hope they step back and allow them to do their job. I hope they maybe stay out of the media and/or assign a family spokesperson with public statements.
Totally agree. I understand they may want to tell the public how special their daughter was, like Ethan's parents did.

I also appreciate how frustrating this must be for them. In today's world though, LE has to limit what they can say to families, for fear of it ending up in the public domain.

At the end of the day, they will want to see justice done and rightly so, but this is not the way to go about it, in my opinion.
 
The report that some of the victims had defensive wounds leads me to think that they did not sleep through the attacks. I'm thinking they happened too fast for them to react more than maybe putting up their hands to block the killers assault. I think these attacks most likely happened fast. Maybe 10-15 min to kill all 4 of them
I would think the crime was committed in far less than 10 minutes.
 
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