ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 12

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I have been thinking about this 911 call a thousand times now but what if, D or B wakes up and is heading for the upstairs kitchen

I do believe it's the only kitchen. Yes, it's upstairs for them though, as they sleep on the ground/first floor.

And the kitchen is the first place they'd go on Sunday morning to get some coffee/juice/brunch.

So I'm sure the 911 call would have to have come from one of them.

MOO.
 
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I think it's really interesting that of the criminal profilers interviewed on Inside Edition, the 2 males seemed to both think the perpetrator knew them and that this is more of a personal/revenge crime and the 2 females seemed to both think there's more likelihood that it's someone unknown to the victims who has practiced/done this type of killing before.


I just think it's interesting how their theories broke down by gender.

Personally, I think with the amount of time that's passed, it's less likely the perp was connected to the victims socially. I feel like LE would have some kind of strong leads on person(s) of interest or actual suspect(s) by now.
Keep in mind that these "experts" have no inside knowledge of this crime. They know no more than we do. Imo
 
I have been thinking about the victims, but also their family and friends. The amount of pain that they must be going thru is unimaginable. But I have also been thinking about the two survivors and Kaylee's ex boyfriend. From what I can tell it looks as if they have all been cleared. These two girls are going to have to live the rest of their lives knowing that four of their friends were murdered while they slept in the same house. J (Kaylee's ex) has to live with the fact that Kaylee & Madison tried reach out to him shortly before they were murdered. I can only imagine the guilt he is feeling by not answering those calls. I truly feel for these peoples whose lives were changed forever in one night.
 
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I would think the surviving girls have a right to privacy?
I think there’s also a sense among some people that LE released lots of detail about KG and MM when nearly all of the info either came from KG’s family (food truck, Ring footage, taking dog out, late night / early morning calls to ex, status of relationship with ex, recent trip home, future plans, etc.) or was in reaction to info released by KG’s family and ensuing rumors and questions. Had KG’s family not shared all that info, it might have been LE’s preference to keep most or all of those details private for now and say only that they were at a bar, X and E were at a party, and they were all home sometime after 1:45am. Even the info provided about the roommates being in the house when the murders occurred was provided in response to a couple reporters who asked a specific question and a follow-up question for clarity. It was not proactively volunteered by LE.
 
The 2 surviving room mates are genuinely so so lucky they came out of this unscathed. I remember when I lived in student accom, I would go up at odd times of the night to get a snack/make something in the kitchen. And since we all shared a toilet, I'd even shower at 4am. Freaks me out just thinking about how bad things could have gone if one of them had decided to leave their rooms in those hours and I have no doubt the killer would have killed the 2 remaining girls if he'd come across them or known they were there. You can have a grudge against one person but not against 4 (well not to the point you kill 4 ppl in cold blood). Killer might have been watching them that night or the day before and since there were 4 blondes mistaken them for each other?That or he was scared off from finishing the job.
Just moo.
 
Ted Bundy, Delphi, Green River Killer, BTK, Jeffrey Dahmer, Golden State Killer all took YEARS to be caught and the murders solved.
All serial killers. I think the statement that this was a targeted attack and the community was not in danger led people to believe the perp was somehow wronged by one or more of the victims and in their orbit. But the longer this goes on without an arrest the less it looks like it was an angry friend/bf/neighbor/coworker and the more it looks like a serial/thrill killer.
 
I am curious too about a midnight call with dad. Who called who? Was there something in particular discussed?

I get kids being close with a parent and talking daily (I do that) but isn't that done at more conservative hours? I wonder if something happened that shook X up in that missing time gap? JMO, MOO
The fact she called her father at midnight combined with the rampant speculation/rumors of an incident at the frat house earlier that night--and now police changing the hours the couple attended the party but not the time they arrived home--just all adds up to something.

I mean....the media, and publicly the police, both have focused extensively on K & M. It makes me thing that perhaps the police may be more focused on Xana/Ethan as target(s)....but that opens up a whole other line of questions (like if intended vics are on the floor you entered on, why go up to the 3rd floor)
 
Maybe I am seeing different but the hill looks graded to me and the drop would be a standard drop.10ft or so. imo
It's a little difficult to see in most of the pics, but after you exit the sliding doors on the balcony that is directly over the back porch, the balcony continues along the entire back side of the house, and the window of the other 3rd level bedroom opens out onto that balcony as well. It appears to me that the ground slopes up more at the far end of that balcony, and there is a tree next to it that could be used to assist a drop from the balcony to the ground.
 
As I mentioned, there is a nearby ledge that looks like it is 36" to 42" off floor nearby. It is the ledge above the first of the two flights of stairs climbing from 2nd to 3rd level. So, without a ladder someone would not need to jump a full floor (which looks like it is 8' here), but only a little more than half that distance. It is also possible that there is a ladder that drops down from that attic space opening although that seems unlikely given the size of the opening.
If there were a folding ladder, there would be a pull... also, if the attic is not somewhat "finished" one step off the beams and you are coming though the ceiling drywall. The ledge is not really under the hatch. However, as criticsal as I am being, I would not completely dismiss the attic as a possible hide out and there might be a piece of furniture around (not in Zillow of course) that would make a great step ladder. Let's hope LE checked that space out, or is listening to you now.
 
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Legit question....
I'm sure someone brought this up, but 12 threads x 50 pages is a lot to wade through!

Originally police stated that Ethan/Xana were at a frat party until 130am & arrived home around the same time as the other two girls.

But NOW police have been stating that they attended the party from 8 to 9pm. Also, Xana's father stated she talked to her around midnight and she had said her and Ethan were hanging out at home. Obviously she's a college kid and might just keep things like going to a frat party to herself/not tell the father.....BUT.....I've still not seen LE say where Xana & Ethan went/where they were from 9pm until they arrived home. They changed the "time spent at party" by almost 4 hours but didn't give am update as to what they were doing.

It may be nothing, or maybe it's something, IDK. But they've painstakingly put together timelines as best they could and it seems like we are missing 4-5 hrs for the couple. If they did leave the party at 9p and went home....that changes the context of the night a bit. Obviously a lot of rumors too going around about the frat party and some sort of incident, but in general it all seems odd.

Can someone clear up this 8p-9p / 8p - 130a time change discrepancy?
I believe there were two separate events.
1. Ethan's sister's sorority had a dance.
2. Ethan's fraternity had a party.
 
The fact she called her father at midnight
Is that a fact?
MOO: I thought they talked at around midnight. Plenty of times I have called my mom around 23 or my mom has called me around 23 and we talked for almost an hour. Depending on the fathers biorythm or work schedule, it might not be odd at all.
 
Again... just jumping off this post...

Makes me think...

Having been a college student myself... with quite a few people coming in and out of our apartment...
and even now... we are home owners of thirty-five years... with multiple people entering our house...

I still think there are specific places where friends/family/acquaintances would not even THINK of exploring in our home bases...

Therefore...
I am thinking any type of deranged killer would leave some type of DNA/evidence of SOME kind that would stand out from the "usual" finger prints/DNA/evidence of common house usage...

In other words...
Perhaps there is a challenge to distinguish evidence from a building that has multiple innocuous human activity ....from persons with ill intent..

But could there be some type of evidence that is pretty well outside the normalcy of common social gatherings...
and evidence that is beyond the societal norms?

Example: Perhaps a guest has used our upstairs potty room...
fingerprints would be found on potty handle,etc...
However...
If there are found fingerprints opening our medical cabinets...
and or.. our clothes drawers..
welll... That would become some kind of red flag...

To me... anyway...
all... JMO...

Yes, I agree. Finding evidence of a person being present in common areas is not the same as that person being present in private areas where they have no reason to be.

Also DNA can be found in different kinds of samples, some would not seem odd and others would seem a neon red flashing flag
-Finding DNA from a friend from skin or hair cells In a common area on a couch- not odd
-DNA from fresh blood or semen from unknown person in upstairs bath- Odd!

So I suppose the DNA prize in this case would be-
DNA from blood, from male, who is known or not know to victims, who has not ever been invited upstairs, and yet their DNA profile is found mixed with a victim‘s blood in a series of drops across the wooden floor of one of the upstairs bedrooms.
You can’t explain that away!

Of course then other evidence would have to be in line- you don’t want a match to someone who has a solid alibi in another state Who has never been to Idaho.
IMO
 
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Even someone familiar with the home would have to be uncommonly bold to enter it,
unless it is someone who has previously committed break and enters, imo. speculation, rbbm
Snippets of lengthy article.

by Michael Arntfield 2018
''Conventional thinking has suggested for years that predatory offences like exhibitionism or actual sexual assaults are typically the early crimes committed by future serial sex predators.''

''The Canadian study in part validates earlier research and expert input that strongly recommended that DNA evidence from B-and-Es should be included in the National DNA Data Bank, this despite the fact that they weren't widely regarded as sex offences.''

''That's because, unlike a conventional break-in where items have been stolen, the intruder who was merely looking and took nothing is not pursued at all, even though he may have had far more sinister motives. He is free to continue experimenting and escalating in his methods. Chances are, he is described below.''

''The six sub-types''
2- Voyeuristic. Normally involves discreet entry that may appear only as tampering. The offender's objective is to conduct surveillance of the premises and collect intelligence on the lives of the occupant(s) before returning. This method is widely believed to have been the modus operandi of the still unidentified Original Night Stalker/East Area Rapist/Golden State Killer, one of the most prolific serial rapists and killers in American history.''


''3-Somnophilic. Often an escalation from Typology 2, and often known as "sleepwatcher" cases. The offender enters a specifically targeted location in the middle of the night while occupants are at home and asleep. The offender watches and/or photographs/records the occupants without their knowledge. The occupants have no knowledge or memory of the intruder being in their bedrooms. Recent cases targeting university students in London, Ont. and Halifax brought overdue national attention to this typology. In most cases, the only items stolen will be souvenirs.''

I remember reading Helter Skelter by Vincent Bugliosi about the Tate/LaBianca murders and how Manson used to get his followers to break into homes and re-arrange the furniture without stealing or harming the home owners. They called it 'creepy-crawling' and its purpose was to terrify the homeowners but also to develop the skills of B and E. I can't imagine what those homeowners felt when the book was released and how close they had come to evil.
 
I am curious too about a midnight call with dad. Who called who? Was there something in particular discussed?

I get kids being close with a parent and talking daily (I do that) but isn't that done at more conservative hours? I wonder if something happened that shook X up in that missing time gap? JMO, MOO

That may depend on the hours someone is working. I talk to one of my adult children at unusual hours because of his work schedule.

If there was something that concerned her, I would think a parent would suggest calling LE but I would suspect that the parents of all the victims have been interviewed and directly questioned about any conflicts or concerns they may have expressed.
 
Is it possible to get a list of phone numbers who pinged off the closest cell tower between certain times, say midnight to 6 am?
 
I remember reading Helter Skelter by Vincent Bugliosi about the Tate/LaBianca murders and how Manson used to get his followers to break into homes and re-arrange the furniture without stealing or harming the home owners. They called it 'creepy-crawling' and its purpose was to terrify the homeowners but also to develop the skills of B and E. I can't imagine what those homeowners felt when the book was released and how close they had come to evil.

If the girls were being watched, makes you wonder if someone went into the house prior as well. Very creepy thought.
 
I have been thinking about the victims, but also their family and friends. The amount of pain that they must be going thru is unimaginable. But I have also been thinking about the two survivors and Kaylee's ex boyfriend. From what I can tell it looks as if they have all been cleared. These two girls are going to have to live the rest of their lives knowing that four of their friends were murdered while they slept in the same house. J (Kaylee's ex) has to live with the fact that Kaylee & Madison tried reach out to him shortly before they were murdered. I can only imagine the guilt he is feeling by not answering those calls. I truly feel for these peoples whose lives were changed forever in one night.
If he went there, would he also be dead?
 
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