ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 14

[hopewell]

The coroner also said some, but not all the victims were murdered in their beds. I know that could be taken very literal in that E (and maybe not K) were in their own personal beds (because they didn't live there anymore), but I think it's just as likely this means not all the victims were in any bed.

My own take on the coroner's statement about everyone being asleep is that the house was quiet, everyone was in bed for the night, not up and about, and that when the attacks started, everyone was sleeping. However, I don't think the coroner's statement necessarily means some of the victims didn't wake up, get out of bed, and perhaps try to defend themselves at the moment they were attacked. I'd be willing to bet that the first victim was killed in bed, though.

Interesting hypothesis, but I feel that if any of them were awake enough to get up and defend themselves against a single perpetrator that one or more would have escaped or had time to call someone. Likewise, I imagine the girls under them would have heard some screams or similar.

My opinion.

 

[hopewell]

Also, bruises and tears are indications that it was more than just raising her hands to ward off the attack.

How so?

 

[wrytergirl]

It also sounds like Kaylee's dad is frustrated. He's deferring to LE because he knows this is their job but if this case goes on much longer with an arrest, I feel like he and other parents may start releasing information on their own to try and gather more evidence. Whether you agree with them doing that or not this is reality and LE needs to be mindful of this.

And mindful of it before this point too. The police have not gotten this family's trust or formed enough of a relationship with them. Time is slipping away and that makes families nervous. They fear holding back information that could find the suspect. They imagine how they will feel in the future if they do the wrong thing. If too much information is coming out from families that should not be blamed on the family alone but on police who did not handle the families well.

 

[boater55]

It says that the triplets spent their last day together, I read this as that was a special occasion for their last time spent together. Not that they were necessarily together on E's last day alive. Maybe there is other information online that clarifies this that I haven't seen or have forgotten.

I keep seeing this but wondering if the mom was referring to Friday instead of Saturday? “Last day before Sat night/early Sunday morning”. I bet someone can find the date of the dance?

 

[Barry]

Is everyone assuming the killer is a "he"? Jealousy and early morning phone calls to your crush/new love interest/guy your stalking can drive a girl to murder. Wait until everyone is asleep then kill whoever you despise for getting in between you and the man you want to be with. When your done change into your victim's clothes and walk out unoticed by neighbors.

Not assuming a male here. Anecdotally, we were eating at a sports bar a couple of days ago, and they happened to have womens MMA on the TV. I have no doubt a female could do this

 

[CJnashy]

2* weeks later and still SO many questions here. It may have been discussed but what about the possibility that the 4 may have somehow been drugged prior to the attack? It just baffles me that this was pulled off with that many people in the house, 2 surviving roommates & not discovered until almost noon. I know toxicology takes a bit but I haven’t seen this mentioned as a possibility? Trying to find anything that might put these pieces together.

 

[DatelineFan]

Regarding the surviving roommates in the morning, I can imagine a scenario where someone's alarm or timer is going off for a few minutes, and no one is turning it off. I lived in a house with a couple of girlfriends in college, and we each had birth control alarms on our phones. It was a running joke that we knew what time each of us were scheduled to take it based on the routine alarms going off each day. I wonder if something similar occurred, and the girls were concerned. I can imagine them calling out to the others in the house and not getting a response. Ugh, this sends shivers up my spine. Maybe they tried to open a door but couldn't, and because most people (especially 20 year olds after a night of partying) don't immediately suspect there's been a murder, they start texting friends / siblings with their concerns. Ultimately a couple of friends / siblings come over and they all decide 911 is the next appropriate step.

Thinking back to when I was in college, we would have been initially reluctant to involve police in most situations. You're thinking about your future and getting in trouble for underage drinking or weed, etc, and you never think the worst possible scenario is what's happening. I feel for these kids.

Another thought: I haven't seen reports of an alleged confrontation that night discussed recently. I would like to know more about that. I think it could be related to the gap in X+E's timeline

 

[GGbankster]

I asked someone who has this kind of job regarding the timelines and the way the coroner first released that they were all sleeping to “ not all were in bed “ etc.

He said that in his job, they weren’t under the obligation to release the timeline to the public or information regarding victims position leading up to their death or how they were killed. Their main priority is to solved the case and use whatever information necessary to draw out the person responsible for this crime. Moo It makes sense why their timelines are not matching up with the digital evidence. It’s probably intentional.

 

[Notthisshipsister]

Just a thought. Woke up in the middle of the night and started thinking about the dog. On Fox last night, with Lawrence Jones, he specifically asked if the dog was in the house the whole time and the State Police spokesperson said “Yes” <modsnip - off limits> My reasoning is because whoever this was did NOT hurt Murphy. I also believe that the killer was familiar to Murphy and liked him.

Or...just as importantly... Murphy liked HIM. I wish we knew where the dog was when things were happening. Possibly on the first floor with the two surviving roommates? I'm thinking that even if the dog and the killer knew/liked each other, I can't see that the dog, or any dog, would be standing by quietly when something so brutal as the stabbings was happening. Whether Murphy would have barked, or jumped around trying to join in what he (the dog) may have interpreted as "play", or just wandered around following the killer between floors--- I don't think that he was loose. The killer may have given him something to keep him quiet, but wouldn't that have added one more thing that he would have had to think about beforehand? A local news account described Murphy as "traumatized" but maybe just from the number of people running around his house when LE came. MOO

 

[Ghostwheel]

I am intensely interested in this case (Washington resident / WSU grad back in the day, twelve minutes away), but I have only been able to read bits and pieces here in each of the fourteen threads. So I’m ‘that person’ because this has probably been discussed a million times here, but does anyone have thoughts one way or the other about the two (or multiple) perp notion?

Myself, I picture one perp, probably like most people do, but with the mention at the most recent presser of authorities having said they have not ruled out that more than one person may have been involved in the killings, it sets me to wondering. Of course, “involved” could mean a myriad of things, including not being present at the crime scene, I imagine.

Does this seem like standard LE parlance to include a statement about not having ruled out more than one, or does it make you wonder why they brought it up? Thanks.

Investigators have received more than 260 digital submissions in probe of University of Idaho murders | CNN

Almost two weeks after the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students, police are still searching for clues and asking the public for help.

www.cnn.com

Without all the results of all the tests, they could not confirm: one knife or two or more similar/nearly identical knives. If two knives. One person weilding them both, or two people weilding one each.How many different footprints (if any found). Blood that does not belong to any victim. Items with DNA that did not belong to any victim in the crime area (coffee cup, for example). A myriad of things.

So haven't ruled out more than one could mean killer(s) present, people involved, people who know things. JMO. I find the wording normal since they haven't processed all their leads.

 

[DatelineFan]

I asked someone who has this kind of job regarding the timelines and the way the coroner first released that they were all sleeping to “ not all were in bed “ etc.

He said that in his job, they weren’t under the obligation to release the timeline to the public or information regarding victims position leading up to their death or how they were killed. Their main priority is to solved the case and use whatever information necessary to draw out the person responsible for this crime. Moo It makes sense why their timelines are not matching up with the digital evidence. It’s probably intentional.

This makes sense. I don't think they would have adjusted the timeline for M+K arriving home if family hadn't pushed so hard on it in interviews

 

[Notthisshipsister]

I asked someone who has this kind of job regarding the timelines and the way the coroner first released that they were all sleeping to “ not all were in bed “ etc.

He said that in his job, they weren’t under the obligation to release the timeline to the public or information regarding victims position leading up to their death or how they were killed. Their main priority is to solved the case and use whatever information necessary to draw out the person responsible for this crime. Moo It makes sense why their timelines are not matching up with the digital evidence. It’s probably intentional.

I've been saying from the start that how could the ME, or anyone, know if someone was asleep? One might assume that they were asleep based on the time of night, or being found in beds, but I doubt that anyone could say conclusively that they were asleep. Someone on these threads pointed out that an Apple watch or Fitbit can tell if someone is sleeping but then, all 4 would have had to be wearing onefor each to be labeled as "asleep", right?
MOO

 

[Emerald1328]

I may be in the minority, but I think LE have released a ton of information on this case, way more than they have in most cases I’ve followed. If you (“you” in general) have never followed many cases from start to finish, I could see why one would think that police haven’t released a lot of information. The fact that they even released the cause of death is remarkable compared to many other cases, IMO.

 

[LAhiker]

Of the four University of Idaho students who were found stabbed to death in a rental house last Sunday, some were killed in their beds, the Latah County coroner told CB News Friday.

Coroner Cathy Mabbutt would not provide any further details. She noted, however, that earlier media reports stating all four victims had been murdered in their beds were not accurate.

Some of the murdered University of Idaho students were stabbed in their beds, coroner says

According to police, the coroner said all four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds and each was stabbed multiple times.

www.cbsnews.com

My guess is that the perp went to stab a targeted person -- maybe K -- and ended up also stabbing M who was with or near her. At that point, there was enough commotion that another person -- maybe E -- went to investigate, possibly telling X to stay put (or maybe X was sleeping deeply). I'm guessing the perp fought with and fatally wounded whoever went to investigate and then went and killed the last person on that floor (maybe X).

Then the perp fled, either because they knew the other two roommates were there and was afraid that there had been enough noise for them to wake up and call police, or because he didn't know anyone else was there, or because for whatever reason they had no beef with the other two.

In this view, the perp targeted one person, probably a woman, who he thought had rejected him.. But it's also possible that he felt rejected by, or was rejected or mocked by, the entire group. He might've been been not accepted by E's fraternity and might've gone after this apparently happy little clump of fraternity & sorority members. (On social media, people often portray themselves as happier & better looking than they actually are. Maybe he was taken in by that and felt envy & hatred?)

He might've lived nearby, where he could observe their comings and goings and hear any parties they might have had. He might've been invited to or crashed a party at the house, and thus been familiar with its layout. In short, as others have suggested, he might have been a peripheral figure in their world, one who resented their relative success & apparent happiness.


JMO

 

[OldCop]

This makes sense. I don't think they would have adjusted the timeline for M+K arriving home if family hadn't pushed so hard on it in interviews

Agree. Timeline variations can be alibi busters.

 

[scapa]

This case is now making the news over here in the UK. Guardian article summary focused on the response to date:

University of Idaho killings: police receive over 260 digital submissions

Idaho governor also directs up to $1m in state emergency funds for investigation after four students killed

www.theguardian.com

 

[DeViLintheDetaiL]

I'm unsure still and struggle with the idea that the murderer might be a student friend/peer. A lot of these theories make sense but when I zoom out I remember that these were brutal murders. I dunno if an average college kid would do this and if they did I don't know if they could kill like this for their first time. That thought throws doubt on many plausible theories for me. It leads me to look for someone that has killed before. The person is disturbed and may be an acquaintance. I feel like it's not a student. Look at that murder scene and take it for face value. I like to zoom in and out of the whole picture so I don't lose site of anything obvious.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I just posted this in media, too.

Reasons why information is not released.

Idaho Student murders update: Police say why key details are being withheld from the public

Authorities are withholding key details from the public as they continue to investigate the murders of four University of Idaho students, including information about a suspect profile.

www.foxnews.com

"Mauro said Saturday evening that in addition to protecting the integrity of the investigation, the scarcity of key details that have been released to the public could lead investigators to swiftly find a suspect.

"‘If and when they get a suspect, and are able to question them, then the police can ask them questions and see if they know details that have not been released to the public," Mauro said."

This is good police work and perfectly normal.

 

[hopewell]

I asked someone who has this kind of job regarding the timelines and the way the coroner first released that they were all sleeping to “ not all were in bed “ etc.

He said that in his job, they weren’t under the obligation to release the timeline to the public or information regarding victims position leading up to their death or how they were killed. Their main priority is to solved the case and use whatever information necessary to draw out the person responsible for this crime. Moo It makes sense why their timelines are not matching up with the digital evidence. It’s probably intentional.

I'm with you on LE always not always being forthcoming and withholding key bits of evidence and information, but they are not going to say things like they were likely asleep if they weren't in fact likely asleep. A defense attorney would have a field day with things like that if they weren't factual.

My opinion.

 

[Sunshine95]

I think the puppy hid in fear. Animals can sense death and predators and I’ve seen dogs hide during violence.
I think the survivors could have been having trauma responses and how they reacted to the trauma shouldn’t be considered through a logic lens. When we are in fight, flight or freeze mode our frontal lobes/ logic brains aren’t in control. Once I got a call about a death and it literally took my brain a few minutes before I could process what the caller was saying. To see what they might have seen, I can only imagine it was difficult to think/ process/ make sense of what they saw. So calling friends makes sense to me.