ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 34

[samanthadaniels1995]

I have not read any discussion concerning the time the Killer(s) may have been in the home. The police officers stopped students for suspected under aged alcohol consumption on Dec 13th at 3:01 AM. There seemed to be a flow of youth passing the background of the police video cam recordings (footage is from the days of reel film movies I believe 1920s silent films or about 100 yrs). https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24907/12-08-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update?bidId=

A white, or light, car was observed by a neighbors camera to pass by on the main access street between 2:45 to 3:15

The murders were estimated by examiners to have occurred between 3 and 4 Am on Dec 13th.

It seems to me that with routine police stop, the youth passing in the background, and the white car passing by that his murderer had quite the focus to do what "he" did. Then to leave the scene. The white Elantra was observed, so not quite undetected (we still don't know the details).

I am trying to grasp the circumstances of this occurring. I suppose the white Elantra is quite a significant piece of evidence to pursue. Perhaps, there are witnesses to hearing screaming that we are not aware of. Perhaps, a camera captured the offender. We just don't have the person in a database to pursue them. or we just don't have a good view to do justice of sharing it with the public.

 

[Arkay]

Moo...maybe the stabber is a med student or a surgeon? If you were confident of your knowledge of human anatomy..it would just be a methodical kill. Or could just be someone that spends alot of time studying how to stab efficiently....or steroid rage ....moo

Med students work on corpses, and surgeons work on people who are in medically induced states of unconsciousness.

IMO, stabbing or gouging living people is not the same. Even if they are drunk, they are alive and would have some reaction to being killed as they lay. I don't think it would be a "methodical kill" when there's a chance that the victim might move or shout.

In Jack the Ripper's case there were some rumors that he was a doctor (even Queen Victoria's doctor) because he was able to remove vital organs, but he did that post-mortem. Most Jack the Ripper scholars no longer believe he was a doctor, but I see your point therefore about knife skills.

I just don't agree that a sleeping person would be as unreactive as a corpse or someone undergoing surgery. Any of us who've had surgery know that we are completely unconscious and unresponsive as we are being sliced into.

I'm afraid that at some point, any or all of the victims here may have had some moments of awareness, panic or anguish. IMO they couldn't all have just slept through it, even if they were asleep at the start.

Jmo

 

[Copper107]

Agreed. there is complexity when help is not requested, but just a few formalities need to be quickly done if their help is requested in terms of agents on the ground

Not really, in my experience it is basically "asked and answered." In this case, I am quite sure it only took a 2 second call and the wheels were in motion.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

For those who think this killing was either an act of rage by an acquaintance or a chemically fueled event, what's your take on LE's persistent focus on the white Elantra? Was the Elantra instrumental to the murders, and if so, how?

 

[accordn2me]

Insurance Company Deciding Fate of 1122 King???
@accordn2me Sorry, I'm not sure I'm following ^.
Depending on ins.coverage in policy, Ins. Co. may or may not pay for special haz-mat type cleaning. But aside from that, or possibly w a specific coverage for loss-of-use-for-business/rental-prop, how does ins. co. fit in to the pic?
Anyone? Thx in adv.

[ETA. Agreeing that the owner decides. It's private prop, so (unless there's an issue btwn owner & mtg. lender, if any) owner decides.]

Sorry if already covered since orig. post. Also sorry if I'm dense re this.

I’m not sure if or how the insurance company might figure into this. I’ve heard some strange tales. There were the thieves who broke into a home and got themselves trapped in the garage while a family was away on vacation. They sued and won. So, I don’t know if there might be any tort suits against the owner, but I wouldn’t rule it out. Even if, the insurance company couldn’t dictate what happens ultimately though. It won’t be like totaling a car, but it might not be insurable again.

 

[Diogenetic]

Not really, in my experience it is basically "asked and answered." In this case, I am quite sure it only took a 2 second call and the wheels were in motion.

Not for arrest authority or assertion of jurisdiction. Same issues come up with any DOJ involvement in local, county or state. there absolutely is paperwork even if it is pro forma

a=But you are correct that local departments can get anything on a scale of FBI assistance/involvement. Hundreds call the bureau everyday to tap an asset, or specialist can be tasked or sent in.
The majority of employees at the FBI who help local departments are not even agents and do not to have arrest authority, but rather are experts on anything from forensic or transaction accounting to AI recognition of geometry of a given model car.

 

[crimesnooper]

Great points. Agree completely. If this killer has not killed humans before, they certainly killed animals. As far as mass killing.... sadly, this is not the first, nor the last. MOO.

I think it's possible the killer never intended to kill four people. His intent wasn't cemented in stone when he entered the house that he was going to kill Kaylee. I think we might be talking about someone on the verge of a psychotic break with his disordered thinking and suppressed rage. He brought the knife so he's thinking about it but he makes the decision when he encounters his first triggers that cause the total break with reality. Either it's the suppressed rage at Kaylee & Maddie is a witness, and then EC wakes up and he and Xani are killed on the way out...or he encounters them on the way in, is recognized...and he's loses it.
Strange as it may sound he may have been able to accomplish more on autopilot in the throws of complete break
Just a theory that he may never have killed animals or humans before.

 

[Diogenetic]

For those who think this killing was either an act of rage by an acquaintance or a chemically fueled event, what's your take on LE's persistent focus on the white Elantra? Was the Elantra instrumental to the murders, and if so, how?

Because absent a very specific suspect, the process is deductive. Ie a process of elimination.

 

[fridaybaker]

So is LE convinced that the occupant or occupants of the car saw something that they need to place the killer at the house or vicinity that would invalidate an alibi?

RS&BBM: This is what I think. For now.

 

[Diogenetic]

So, I don’t know if there might be any tort suits against the owner, but I wouldn’t rule it out. Even if, the insurance company couldn’t dictate what happens ultimately though. It won’t be like totaling a car, but it might not be insurable again.

You can bet if there were any unfulfilled requests to address exterior locks or doors from what turns out to be entry point used, there will be tort suit.

 

[Soulmagent]

For those who think this killing was either an act of rage by an acquaintance or a chemically fueled event, what's your take on LE's persistent focus on the white Elantra? Was the Elantra instrumental to the murders, and if so, how?

I don't believe they knew anything other than it was seen leaving the area on a camera and they had not stumbled on any info about it.

 

[rahod1]

For those who think this killing was either an act of rage by an acquaintance or a chemically fueled event, what's your take on LE's persistent focus on the white Elantra? Was the Elantra instrumental to the murders, and if so, how?

Not sure I understand your question. The focus on this particular car is based on video of its possible presence in the area at the time of the crime. This would be independent of the MOTIVE. It would simply be a mode of transportation.

 

[fridaybaker]

Crimesnooper, I’ve thought, too, that the occupant(s) of the white Elantra might be needed to invalidate an alibi, but I wonder how the “patterns” that LE speaks of in relation to the vehicle fits in? Any thoughts?

 

[TooMuchGun]

For What reason would LE not release info on the Elantra right away? Wouldn’t getting the public help asap produce better results?

 

[Copper107]

Not for arrest authority or assertion of jurisdiction. Same issues come up with any DOJ involvement in local, county or state. there absolutely is paperwork even if it is pro forma

a=But you are correct that local departments can get anything on a scale of FBI assistance/involvement. Hundreds call the bureau everyday to tap an asset, or specialist can be tasked or sent in.
The majority of employees at the FBI who help local departments are not even agents and do not to have arrest authority, but rather are experts on anything from forensic or transaction accounting to AI recognition of geometry of a given model car.

You are right. Guess I missed your point. Totally agree

 

[Past Mortem]

I’m so sorry if I’ve missed anything relating to what I’m about to say, but the longer that the Hyundai goes unidentified and the longer LE insist on centering their investigation on it (that WE can all see that is), the more I lean away from it being someone known to the victims (eg jilted ex, betrayed friend, even a rejected distant acquaintance) and lean instead towards it being someone unknown to the victims that was fixated on one or more of the victims for whatever reason or the house itself.

IMO LE would have been able to track the Hyundai back to the owner by now if it belonged to someone within their social circle or even on the outskirts of their circle. IMO this would even be true of a situation where the car belongs to the parent of someone known to the killer. I get a parent wanting to protect their kid, but surely SOMEONE would know the car, particularly if it were someone who attended the college, lived in the area, etc.

IMO the fact that they are still desperately wanting information on that car tells me there is no link in terms of a personal link between the victims and the killer or they would have made it by now.

 

[crimesnooper]

I’m not sure if or how the insurance company might figure into this. I’ve heard some strange tales. There were the thieves who broke into a home and got themselves trapped in the garage while a family was away on vacation. They sued and won. So, I don’t know if there might be any tort suits against the owner, but I wouldn’t rule it out. Even if, the insurance company couldn’t dictate what happens ultimately though. It won’t be like totaling a car, but it might not be insurable again.

I am not an expert but from my experience hazardous bio waste materials are not normally found in crime scenes...not like Jeffrey Dahmer.
There are companies that specialize in cleaning up crimes scenes but non bio waste.
The issue for the owner will be a PR one. No one will ever want to rent that house for many years.
Think in practical terms. Who can the owner sue?
The killer? You can sue anyone but the killer probably won't have any assets.

 

[Strong1]

RS&BBM: This is what I think. For now.

While I agree that this is a possibility, I just wonder if they are being sought for something they may have seen and aren't considered suspects, one would think that they would have have already contacted LE? If this is the case why aren't they coming forward? The longer this search goes on the more I'm led to believe that they are more than witnesses. MOO

 

[airportwoman]

Cleaning up a biohazard of this degree is often covered by homeowner's/landlord's insurance, although in many cases, they ask to be paid upfront and are then reimbursed.

 

[Karin1974]

I can't believe it was allowed to just sit there for days, without being towed. In my city, it would have been stripped within 24 hours.

I can’t believe with all the news/publicity about this particular model of car that someone didn’t alert Idaho PD just to let them know not to worry about this particular Hyundai Elantra - Would the owner of this car not be aware of the publicity surrounding the vehicle she owns? MOO