ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 35

[Nila Aella]

Re: the difference in wounds.

Could it be that the knife was dull after the first three victims? Would that make the wounds different (tearing vs. stabbing).

 

[debirlfan]

I can’t understand this: What would be the reason Police Chief Fry “would not confirm the caller’s identity” after saying that the 911 call was made using one of the surviving roommate’s phones?

I’m sorry if this is old news, but I’m sort of going “back to the beginning” in this case. Why would LE want to protect the identity of the person making the call? Is this routine? Afraid the killer might come back for her? That doesn’t really wash with me, as the killer would really only care if there were witnesses, not who called it in, right? What other reasons would there be?

My feeling is that the roommates found the door locked, and the friend they called was the person most likely to have the lock code - E's brother. If the brother discovered E and X, I'm sure that would be traumatic enough without giving the media a reason to hound him.

 

[The Observer]

My feeling is that the roommates found the door locked, and the friend they called was the person most likely to have the lock code - E's brother. If the brother discovered E and X, I'm sure that would be traumatic enough without giving the media a reason to hound him.

Why would E's brother have the lock combo to X's bedroom!?

 

[10ofRods]

I am not laughing at the situation. I am heartbroken by it. I am laughing at the lack of insight some folk have.

The point being missed is that unless there were 2 perps working in tandem, one victim in each room had to have been stabbed first. So, the second in each room was likely the one who was awake and fought back.

Again, don’t make assumptions about what I found amusing. It certainly wasn’t 4 beautiful, innocent young adults being murdered in their beds.

I only assumed you meant to indicate you were LOL. That's all. I have no clue why you were LOL.

No aspect of this is LOL for me. But I've been told I'm very serious.

People vary in insight, and I don't laugh at that, either. That's the real world and not everyone shares the same knowledge base - or your apparent certainty about what happened. I am completely clueless as to this case.

Sure, one victim in each room had to be stabbed first. If that was one stab per victim, rapid succession (2-3 seconds), there's no way of determining that, IMO. If you can provide any academic literature that helps us forensic people know who is stabbed first when two people are stabbed almost instantaneously, I'd be very appreciative.

Because someone who comes in prepared to stab two people (or shoot two people for a more common scenario) ey weis a different kind of perp than one that focus mostly on one victim first, then the other. Further, in this case, since two of the victims resemble each other superficially (K and M) and were also (apparently) in the same room (at least after the event started - I'm not convinced that they were initially sleeping together), I can envision several different scenarios accounting for the differences in wounds. And none of that is diagnostic for who got stabbed first or whether the killer alternated between victims on a rapid, more or less equal basis (possibly to be called frenzied in common speech).

It's a big difference to me, forensically.

So, maybe you can tell me what you think being stabbed first means? Proximity to the door? Apparent risk to the perp? Target? Do you have enough information? (I am only asking for your opinion, naturally). I made no assumptions about why you were LOL. I'd love to have a conversation about your own assumptions. We can agree that there were two pairs of victims, right? Beyond that - who came first?

 

[scottr]

I can’t understand this: What would be the reason Police Chief Fry “would not confirm the caller’s identity” after saying that the 911 call was made using one of the surviving roommate’s phones?

I’m sorry if this is old news, but I’m sort of going “back to the beginning” in this case. Why would LE want to protect the identity of the person making the call? Is this routine? Afraid the killer might come back for her? That doesn’t really wash with me, as the killer would really only care if there were witnesses, not who called it in, right? What other reasons would there be?

I don't think that its necessarily to protect the caller from the killer but to protect the integrity of the investigation. Perps can't remember every single thing that happened or how the crime scene was when they left. A 911 caller could potentially know some of those details and I'm sure they don't want much of that getting out to the public.

 

[Allabouttrial]

I don't think that its necessarily to protect the caller from the killer but to protect the integrity of the investigation. Perps can't remember every single thing that happened or how the crime scene was when they left. A 911 caller could potentially know some of those details and I'm sure they don't want much of that getting out to the public.

It appears there were a number of people on the 911 call, so I believe that's the reason why no names were given.

 

[powpow]

Re: the difference in wounds.

Could it be that the knife was dull after the first three victims? Would that make the wounds different (tearing vs. stabbing).

I think these words tell the story:

"They're not even close to matching."

Imagine your question to the father and he answered with that. What would that indicate to a rational person? The wounds were not even close to the other wounds found on her friend. Remember, this is a guy who has had his life turned upside down and is pissed as hell. Not only about his daughter, but his frustration at PD for not releasing information that could be of asset to the public. Are we looking for a loner, close to Moscow Idaho, or are we looking for a team of killers anywhere in the US?

 

[DeDee]

Precisely. I have always interpreted this as the murderer entered the home and started murdering while the occupants were asleep. It doesn't mean someone didn't wake up before the murderer got to him/her and was ready to fight back.

For the record, there is no way to tell whether a person was asleep or not. They may have been wide awake in bed for all we (or the police) know.

Perhaps one way in which we can tell if the victim was awake or not is by analyzing their behavior during the attack. If their hair was grabbed to expose the soft tissues of the neck, just one quick stab or slice across this vital area and the victim cannot scream or fight back effectively. No defensive injuries.

Xana had to have multiple injuries so she's fatally wounded by multiple stabs. Aren't the neck and chest the most vulnerable?

What the first attack in each bedroom does allow for; however, is for their sleep partner to awaken. This partner, startled awake, may have suffered multiple wounds, tears, slashes from an attempt to ward off blows in addition to the main thrust to the chest each received.

Killer was methodically evil in these deaths. Why did these four have to die? Does he remain a threat to others?

 

[10ofRods]

I think these words tell the story:

"They're not even close to matching."

Imagine your question to the father and he answered with that. What would that indicate to a rational person? The wounds were not even close to the other wounds found on her friend. Remember, this is a guy who has had his life turned upside down and is pissed as hell. Not only about his daughter, but his frustration at PD for not releasing information that could be of asset to the public. Are we looking for a loner, close to Moscow Idaho, or are we looking for a team of killers anywhere in the US?

I don't think this perp is a loner in the traditional sense, unless we consider college students who live in group situations to be "loners" (which I don't). I think the perp is a member of the university community, IMO, OR closely associated with that community/known to it. I think the perp lived in group housing of some kind. MOO.

I think Kaylee's dad should be respected, though, and it's likely her wounds were swiftly lethal/overkill, whereas the other person in the room received what I would call "reactive" wounds (designed to silence first and foremost). If the killer did in fact have the presence of mind to modify his attack in this manner, that's a crucial piece of information.

MOO.

SG doesn't have a lot of experience with wound comparison, but I am willing to trust his view that the injuries on those two victims were different. I am not sure how knowing the explicit details would aid the public. SG has made it fairly clear that he thinks some were targeted.

I think LE is looking for people within the community close to the victims, quite frankly. IMO.

 

[WingsOverTX]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

When I read about this & similar crimes where the victims were just starting their adult lives, I often reflect on how fortunate I was at their age & even into my late 20s to not know someone who died from a violent crime.

It's such a tragedy for so many in such a wide variety of ways. What an impact on one's world view!

Something about so much promise lost is almost too much to bear. And I am merely a faraway stranger.

Fate, indeed.
JMO

 

[jumpingjackflash]

No jaw-droppers here, but sounds like investigators are at least developing a clearer sense of what unfolded on Nov 13th:

Family of Slain University of Idaho Student Mails out Flyers Pleading for Tips in Quadruple Homicide

Meanwhile, Snell said detectives have yet to identify a suspect or suspects in the case. He said the picture of what happened that night is becoming more clear through interviews and results from the crime lab, but he would not elaborate.

 

[NCTeacher]

Every single article said there were two roomates on the first floor that never woke up, called cops around 11 or 12 next day. It was discussed about 500 times already on this site.

There may be some confusion because some sources (not necessarily approved sources for this site) call that floor the basement.

 

[Jakehansen1988]

One of the better news publication articles with some clear and verified info. The Coroner clearly asserts that this was a targeted crime, there was a lot of blood, defensive fighting by one or more or the victims, and the killer had to be REALLY ANGRY to stab four people to death.

Four University of Idaho students were slain in their beds while they slept: What we know

The murder investigation into four University of Idaho students believed to have been stabbed to death while sleeping in their beds has left residents rattled.

www.usatoday.com

Could it be possible to do this damage if the perp had rage fueled by a serious psychiatric break rather than say someone with just simple rage? Asking because I want others opinions. (Either way, I'd also argue that this level of harm brought by whatever internal sentiment is an indicator of poor mental health)

 

[layer]

Its possible to be rage filled but leave no evidence.
If he wore gloves then no DNA. If the victims didn't fight back, no DNA under fingernails.
Nobody woke so no witnesses.
Didn't bring phone with him, or turned it off before.
Nobody saw him leave or enter the house.

But would a drunk raging bull have the wherewithal to don gloves, ditch phone, and creep around quietly?

 

[10ofRods]

There may be some confusion because some sources (not necessarily approved sources for this site) call that floor the basement.

I think there's real confusion about how many were in the house and who was sleeping where. There was a roommate who moved out. There were supposed to be 6 available bedrooms. There were (as of Nov 12) only 4 people still living there full time (X, M and the two survivors). There's body cam video from LE that seems to show that the very small bedroom on the first floor (basement) was not being used as a bedroom and a very nice room on the second floor that could have been someone's bedroom.

I realized I'd just been assuming about where everyone was sleeping and can't find a single in situ report (a reporter on the ground - like Entin) who actually asked that question or can give any kind of proof as to who was sleeping where that night.

Obviously, D and B know the answer - and so I am confident that LE knows the answer.

 

[The Observer]

Dan Abrams Live - With Brian Entin filling in.

 

[Jakehansen1988]

I said, “under the influence.” There are plenty of MSM sources out there indicating such. Link to one below.

MSN

www.msn.com

In reference to not calling 911, I’m not certain you’re comparing apples to apples. Being spooked is one thing, having someone barge into your bedroom wielding a knife is quite another.

Anyhow, retiring for the night. It’s late where I am.

MSM is also guessing at how K and M were processing the alcohol they MAY have ingested. I agree with 10ofrods we should not assume they were under the influence or drunk or even tipsy until this is confirmed by authoritative sources or the autopsy. And IF they had alcohol in their systems, time had passed and food (maybe water) had been ingested by the time they put themselves to bed which would affect how one feels overall. JMO

 

[debirlfan]

Yet, the coroner says otherwise.

Someone could be attacked in their sleep and still end up not in bed. Victim might have rolled out of bed trying to get away, attacker could have thrown first victim to the floor to make it easier to get yo the second person, etc.

 

[layer]

I think LE is looking for people within the community close to the victims, quite frankly. IMO.

I expect that's true, but I think they should avoid tunnel vision and also look on the periphery of the victims. Who installed wifi in that house? Who delivered regularly to the Mad Greek? Who frequently skulked around at Greek events? Who DoorDashed food to that house?

Obviously this would entail following up on a massive amount of leads, but it would be miniscule compared to a nation-wide search for white 2011-2013 Elantras.

JMHO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

This is a regular statement included in the Moscow, ID Police Press Releases:

"No suspect(s) has been identified and only vetted information that does not hinder the investigation will be released to the public. We encourage referencing official releases for accurate and updated progress. All press releases and related information is available at: King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID. • Updates will be provided when new information is available for release."

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24978/12-20-22-Moscow-Homicide-Updat