ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 9

[L.laricina]

I realize that. But people sometimes assign name brands generally:
Let me grab a Kleenex (any tissue).
I need a Coke (any fizzy soda).

In a way, yes. Ka-Bar was made it's name on a US GI fighting knife used through WWII, Korea, Vietnam, probably beyond. They were a good fighting/utility knife. The reason they stayed around so long is that the US military bought so many of them during WWII and shortly after. For people familiar with them Ka-Bar means that knife, even though the company makes other kinds of knives.

 

[Strong1]

Does anyone have any ideas as to how it is humanly possible that the two roommates didn’t get woken up by this commotion? 4 people getting stabbed to death and nobody calls 911 until 11am the next day? What am I missing?

It is a good question. I guess if the 2 roommates were pretty drunk I could see them passing out and not waking up. Another possible explanation would be that maybe this was a sort of party house with numerous people coming and going, noise was a normal thing. Also with LE saying that they were murdered in their beds there may have not been as much noise as one would expect.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Does anyone have any ideas as to how it is humanly possible that the two roommates didn’t get woken up by this commotion? 4 people getting stabbed to death and nobody calls 911 until 11am the next day? What am I missing?

We discussed this back in thread one or two. The way the house was built on the hillside was with each floor not directly over the floor below or above. I personally believe this would make it more difficult for sound to be transmitted floor to floor.
Add to this that being college kids who had possibly been drinking (sleeping deeply), perhaps had headphones or earplugs in or may have been playing music. JMO

 

[hopewell]

Yes!! This guy wants recognition for what he is done and he will be pissed if they give credit to someone else.

Indeed. This is Rollings-esque. An amateur doing this on the fly would've been physically ill after the first one. Using a gun? Sure I could see that. But a knife? Nah.

 

[elainebenice]

Does anyone have any ideas as to how it is humanly possible that the two roommates didn’t get woken up by this commotion? 4 people getting stabbed to death and nobody calls 911 until 11am the next day? What am I missing?

When I was in college me and my roommates would get so drunk and pass out so hard a bomb wouldn't have woken us up. Add in fans, noise machines, other ways college roommates mask the noise of others and I don't think it's anywhere close to unbelievable that they could have slept through it.

 

[pamelado2]

Someone has probably said this, but if the roommates thought one of the victims was passed out, it seems a likely scenario would be that person was sleeping and the attack would have been pretty silent. (If they couldn't even tell she'd been stabbed to death) That may have been true for both roommates on the second floor. I am surprised the people that called wouldn't have immediately checked on the other second floor roommate. Although maybe they did after the call was completed. But I thought normally you have to stay on the line until an officer/EMT arrives.

 

[Lovemycat]

Does anyone have any ideas as to how it is humanly possible that the two roommates didn’t get woken up by this commotion? 4 people getting stabbed to death and nobody calls 911 until 11am the next day? What am I missing?

I could’ve slept through that at that age. Especially after drinking.

 

[kalekona]

Also Sleeping pills and ear plugs-

 

[wtrbrdm]

The Moscow Police have organized a link to updates on the case as well, the site has lots of info about the department and resources there. King Street Homicide | Moscow, ID

From the link:

"Autopsies were conducted on November 17th and the Latah County Coroner confirmed the identity of the four murdered individuals and their cause and manner of death as homicide by stabbing. The coroner stated the four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds, and each was stabbed multiple times..."

Is this the first time it's been said that SOME had defensive wounds? I thought that only X had defensive wounds....

 

[Blue_Painting]

I wonder if in an effort to wake the 'passed out' roommate, the survivors placed any calls to them? Did they also try to call Kaylee and Madison to see if they knew what to do?

 

[Tippy Lynn]

If the people were locked in their rooms and not responding, you could knock and then call other friends, "Hey is Ethan with you?" They come over and eventually you figure they must be in there, unconscious, call 911.

They probably all shared their location on SC.

 

[mysteryfan96]

Indeed. This is Rollings-esque. An amateur doing this on the fly would've been physically ill after the first one. Using a gun? Sure I could see that. But a knife? Nah.

There have been plenty of amateurs who have stabbed multiple people before without getting ill at all. This person would have had all sorts of adrenaline running, and he was likely in a state of full-blown rage. Even if the first killing made him sick or gave him pause, he wouldn’t have just stopped killing if the other roommates tried to fight back or got in his way.

 

[Alethea]

Not to take anything away from the profiler, but the key word, to me, is former. That person's job now is to get eyes on screens and clicks on websites. Educated speculation is still specualtion, and it is doubtful that anyone outside of LE has any accurate details.

And he hasn't actually seen the scene or the evidence or the autopsy... I'm not sure how they come up with these ideas without actually seeing any of the evidence.

 

[BLISS24]

Does anyone have any ideas as to how it is humanly possible that the two roommates didn’t get woken up by this commotion? 4 people getting stabbed to death and nobody calls 911 until 11am the next day? What am I missing?

I'm several years past the college days (when I truly slept through ANYTHING), and I recently slept through a fire alarm. Soberly. I know that's not the norm, but I have ZERO trouble accepting that college student that were potentially intoxicated, on a different level of a home (where loud parties/noise isn't uncommon), with doors likely closed, etc. slept through this.

 

[drmrgrl]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed for off topic>
I have considered the possibility that the killer is a nearby neighbor who could sneak into the girls home and back again without ever being seen because he does not use any streets to travel.

Yes.

 

[BettyCooper]

I guess. Drinks at a bar I’m familiar with. Just seems weird at a food truck on a cold late night when she’s just gonna take the food and roll on her way. Especially if someone is watching a video to choose who the lucky customer is.

It’s totally different! When you buy someone a drink at a bar, the intention is to hang out with them, get their number, potentially more. These guys are just online watching the girls come order food at a food truck. There’s no direct contact or expectation. If you watch the twitch stream, one of the dudes pays for an earlier girl’s order who says “my boyfriend is right there!” & the person says something along the lines of “I struck out once I’ve gotta try again. Not gonna strike out twice tonight”. I just found it extremely weird. Not to mention the fact the stream is INCREDIBLY boring.

 

[ansrali]

it seems people are really hung up about a few things in this case. presenting my opinions on why they seem like (unintentional) red herrings. JMO:

- roommates not waking up/not calling until 12:
in photos on zillow, the basement rooms (where it's presumed the surviving roommates lived) seem to have soundproof tiles (similar to those in many finished basements. additionally, if they had been drinking, or were used to the sound, it's very possible that they were able to sleep through the night without being awoken. it's also common for college kids to sleep in until noon or so, or stay on that floor until after noon since there was also a bathroom on the bottom floor.

- roommates being "spared"
if the perp wasn't familiar with the layout of the house, it would have been easy to enter in through the second floor through the sliding glass door and think to just stay on the "main" floor, and go upstairs, as that's usually where bedrooms are. it's not totally common, even in college houses, to have bedrooms on a basement level. it's very possible that the perp had no idea there were people sleeping downstairs, especially if they didn't make sound.

- calls to k's ex boyfriend
i think K likely was somewhat under the influence and was frustrated her recent ex wasn't picking up (perhaps she thought he was with someone else, or was sad about her impending move out of moscow, or just simply wanted to chat) so she called repeatedly and then had M call him to see if he'd pick up with another number. this is a pretty common tactic for girls. i know i've done it, especially when younger. i believe they gave up and fell asleep shortly after.

 

[DizzyB]

Every adult who's every fed themselves since childhood has skill with a knife. They know how to stab and cut. This is what was relayed to me in a class on knife fighting. Fear someone with a knife at arm's length. You will be cut.

Orenthal James Simpson had no formal knife (that I'm aware of)or military training. Yet, he was able to subdue and kill a young man half, or more, his age and kill him with a knife.

Ron Goldman was no slouch. He was in excellent physical condition and martial arts expert/black belt. OJ was a great athlete but broken body if I remember from his trial. Yes, Ron may have been blitzed (I don't recall). But again, if he was it shows you don't need training or skill to be effective with a knife.

Moreover, OJ didn't need "skill" or training to basically cut his ex wife's head off with said knife. Tactics are nice but violence rules the day, as they say.

I think I am going to go back and read about the case; I watched the trial in its entirety but I admit I didn’t think much about how loud or silent the murders were.

Some things that have occurred to me that may or may not be helpful: (JMO)

We know the rough timeframe in which the killings took place but not necessarily how long the perp was present at the house. I don’t know (and apologies for this image) - how long it would have taken to stab 4 people to death/incapacitation. If there was little resistance then I imagine this was quite quick - maybe a little longer for those who fought back, but it must have been quick enough to not raise the alarm substantially (especially with possibly two people in each room). There is a chance that the perp then was able to do things to one of the victims, which would explain why LE have stated they think it was targeted (e.g. notes or particular mutilation). They have said the upstairs floors were worse. Alternatively this time could have been used to clean self up a bit (e.g. swap shoes to not leave footprints). I think ultimately this theory depends on what order everything happened in and motive and unfortunately we don’t have that information but it’s a question I hadn’t seen raised - ie whether perp left straight away after “rage” or was more calm and collected and stayed in house for longer after, maybe mistakenly not realising there were two additional roommates.

Secondly - and apologies for bringing it up again but IF that is blood on the outside of the house, is there a chance it could have also permeated the floor of the bedroom / ceiling of the first floor as well? Please correct me if not as I know some discussion on whether it was laminate floor but that could offer another reason to why the roommates were alerted to some danger but possibly didn’t know the full extent and so didn’t leave their locked room / called friends first out of fear for their own safety. Once the friends arrived at the house they confirmed the scene and that’s when LE were called. Again I’m not too sure on this as conscious the report is that they called friends because they “believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up" - which might make more sense with a locked door. If there was a locked door IMO I think this lends itself more to a killer that was calm and collected and not in a fit of rage.

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 8

Sorry to revisit the outside wall and the possible blood-no evidence markers? No screen up while it is examined and samples taken? It’s crazy to think it would just be out there in the open, without shielding it from public view.

 

[AngTxGal]

<modsnip> In this case the giant knife was used to murder 4 people… personally I find it shocking it’s legal to carry a knife that can penetrate a car door… but that’s just me

We could make illegal all weapons that could kill, but people who want to will find a way.
Ask Pelosi, who was attacked with a hammer.
People have used bats, tire irons, tree limbs, chairs, bricks…pretty much anything people can hold can be a deadly weapon, even a pillow.
The giant knife is similar in length and width to those in kitchens.
So, it isn’t the weapon, IMO, it is the wingnut holding it.
In 2011 a man was jailed in Las Vegas and stabbed his cell mate to death with a pencil That is a true story.
IMO

Jailed Las Vegas man stabs cellmate to death with pencil

A Las Vegas man jailed on charges of murdering his nephew killed his cellmate on Friday, stabbing him with a pencil during a fight in their cell, police said.

www.reuters.com

 

[YepperBepper]

We discussed this back in thread one or two. The way the house was built on the hillside was with each for not directly over the floor below or above. I personally believe this would make it more difficult for sound to be transmitted floor to floor.
Add to this that being college kids who had possibly been drinking (sleeping deeply), perhaps had headphones or earplugs in or may have been playing music. JMO

Longtime member. Rare poster.

Agreed. I read somewhere on these threads that it was a big weekend in the area for college football. Lots of celebrating, visiting and partying.. and college kids are great at all 3.

Besides being a long time member and rare poster ..I'm old...and I must say that this has a Ted Bundy Chi Omega feel to it. He, in his psychopathically deranged state, managed to raise hell at that sorority house on multiple victims. I may be wrong (I often am), but that's where my head is this evening .

(Ps. Thanks for great links and posts. You people rock.)

(Pss. If any family or friends are reading or posting here....I'm so very sorry.)