ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #31

[oceanverde]

That is from Bowerman, not Penner.

 

[ReadySet]

It looks like some have moved from drowning to wandering off and getting lost in the woods.

Please do link those cases where a child, not an adult, has disappeared from the woods, forest, campground, and not been found after four years, and it is not a criminal case. There are a handful, five or less in the US. If I'm wrong please cite them, as I keep track of those cases and would be interested. Not an adult, that's different--adults have agency, and can choose to disappear and arrange any number of situations.
Because it happens rarely, it is improbable, and IMO, highly improbable.
What is more probable is that adults had something to do with Deorr Jrs. disappearance.

The reason he hasn't been found is because the parents won't tell where he is.

JMO

 

[Arnie M]

It looks like some have moved from drowning to wandering off and getting lost in the woods.

Please do link those cases where a child, not an adult, has disappeared from the woods, forest, campground, and not been found after four years, and it is not a criminal case. There are a handful, five or less in the US. If I'm wrong please cite them, as I keep track of those cases and would be interested. Not an adult, that's different--adults have agency, and can choose to disappear and arrange any number of situations.
Because it happens rarely, it is improbable, and IMO, highly improbable.
What is more probable is that adults had something to do with Deorr Jrs. disappearance.

The reason he hasn't been found is because the parents won't tell where he is.

JMO

.
Here is one example ... it is rare but does happen

A few years back a 6 year old went missing from a campsite soon after the family arrived. They immediately recruited all the other campers to help search. Parks officials and local police and professional trackers were also brought in but they found nothing.
This campground was in an open prairie location within a lightly forrested area , no caves or pits or rivers or lakes , searchers could literaly cover every square inch of ground without missing anything.

Rumors began to circulate that the boy was either kidnapped , or the parents had done something and were trying to cover it up. By late fall the search stopped , the campground was closed for the season , and by then everybody (including police) began pointing fingers at the parents and accusing them of murder. None of the other campers even remembered seeing the boy at the campground in the first place.

Next spring a municipal worker was sent to unlock the front gate and spotted something in the deep ditch at the campground driveway. It was the body of the boy , he had fallen off the steep bank at the park entrance , hit his head on the rocks , and sucummed to his injuries (coroners report).
Police estimate searchers had walked at least 800 times within 10 feet of the body and nobody had thought to look down.

 

[neesaki]

.
Here is one example ... it is rare but does happen

A few years back a 6 year old went missing from a campsite soon after the family arrived. They immediately recruited all the other campers to help search. Parks officials and local police and professional trackers were also brought in but they found nothing.
This campground was in an open prairie location within a lightly forrested area , no caves or pits or rivers or lakes , searchers could literaly cover every square inch of ground without missing anything.

Rumors began to circulate that the boy was either kidnapped , or the parents had done something and were trying to cover it up. By late fall the search stopped , the campground was closed for the season , and by then everybody (including police) began pointing fingers at the parents and accusing them of murder. None of the other campers even remembered seeing the boy at the campground in the first place.

Next spring a municipal worker was sent to unlock the front gate and spotted something in the deep ditch at the campground driveway. It was the body of the boy , he had fallen off the steep bank at the park entrance , hit his head on the rocks , and sucummed to his injuries (coroners report).
Police estimate searchers had walked at least 800 times within 10 feet of the body and nobody had thought to look down.

This sounds familiar but I can’t place it, so could you kindly provide a link for this? TIA

 

[renarde]

So they did find him though, by the following spring?

It's been a month since the campground near Leadore was closed and reopened again. And it's been over a month since DM's visit with his dogs. Yet... Still nothing.

 

[TristanP]

It looks like some have moved from drowning to wandering off and getting lost in the woods.

Please do link those cases where a child, not an adult, has disappeared from the woods, forest, campground, and not been found after four years, and it is not a criminal case. There are a handful, five or less in the US. If I'm wrong please cite them, as I keep track of those cases and would be interested. Not an adult, that's different--adults have agency, and can choose to disappear and arrange any number of situations.
Because it happens rarely, it is improbable, and IMO, highly improbable.
What is more probable is that adults had something to do with Deorr Jrs. disappearance.

The reason he hasn't been found is because the parents won't tell where he is.

JMO

I’m with you 100% but there actually are a lot of cases where children went missing from woods, forests, and/or campgrounds where a body was never found and no one was ever criminally charged. The Missing 411 books are full of literally hundreds of cases and a chunk of them are children. I know that not everyone likes David Paulides but like him or not, he has gathered factual info to put in the books, so they are reliable sources.

I don’t believe that’s the situation here, though. Vernal and Jessica know where DeOrr went.

Editing to add that I currently only have one of the Missing 411 books in my possession, but since you track cases like this, if you want me to I’ll be glad to make a list of the children missing where it hasn’t become a criminal case. Just let me know!

 

[ReadySet]

Sure would like a link for this.

As you and I both said, it's rare. Extremely rare. In the thousands of 2 year olds who have been taken camping in Idaho, in the West, in the US, there are no 2 year olds that I can find at all that his has happened to.
IMO, didn't happen with Deorr Kunz Jr either.

.
Here is one example ... it is rare but does happen

A few years back a 6 year old went missing from a campsite soon after the family arrived. They immediately recruited all the other campers to help search. Parks officials and local police and professional trackers were also brought in but they found nothing.
This campground was in an open prairie location within a lightly forrested area , no caves or pits or rivers or lakes , searchers could literaly cover every square inch of ground without missing anything.

Rumors began to circulate that the boy was either kidnapped , or the parents had done something and were trying to cover it up. By late fall the search stopped , the campground was closed for the season , and by then everybody (including police) began pointing fingers at the parents and accusing them of murder. None of the other campers even remembered seeing the boy at the campground in the first place.

Next spring a municipal worker was sent to unlock the front gate and spotted something in the deep ditch at the campground driveway. It was the body of the boy , he had fallen off the steep bank at the park entrance , hit his head on the rocks , and sucummed to his injuries (coroners report).
Police estimate searchers had walked at least 800 times within 10 feet of the body and nobody had thought to look down.

 

[ReadySet]

If these cases of missing young children cannot be found in MSM, then it is not credible, IMO.

I’m with you 100% but there actually are a lot of cases where children went missing from woods, forests, and/or campgrounds where a body was never found and no one was ever criminally charged. The Missing 411 books are full of literally hundreds of cases and a chunk of them are children. I know that not everyone likes David Paulides but like him or not, he has gathered factual info to put in the books, so they are reliable sources.

I don’t believe that’s the situation here, though. Vernal and Jessica know where DeOrr went.

 

[skinnycat]

There is a young girl that went missing in the 1960's in Ontario Canada at Grundy Provincial Park there has been no trace of her. She was around 2 went camping with family was near the water and vanished. Will have to see if Websleuths has a thread for her.

Her name is Diane Prevost.

 

[ReadySet]

Yes, I found her in my research, although my own list is confined to the US. It's so unusual that we have to go out of the country.

But look, that's the point. Look at how hard it's been to find any very young children that this has happened to. ( I know you all have been looking because I have too!) Why is it so rare? Because people watch their toddlers carefully when they are camping, and if they wander off, as they do, they know the general area they went missing from. They are found in the lake because they wandered off and drowned. They find them alive or deceased in the woods because they wandered off and got lost. It rarely happens that a very young child, let's say age five and under, is never found.

But baby Deorr's parents have some convinced that the most unlikely thing has happened, to the exclusion of the most likely thing. I'm just trying to counter the contention that this "happens all the time." It doesn't.

There is a young girl that went missing in the 1960's in Ontario Canada at Grundy Provincial Park there has been no trace of her. She was around 2 went camping with family was near the water and vanished. Will have to see if Websleuths has a thread for her.

Her name is Diane Prevost.

 

[skinnycat]

There are lots of differences between the 2 cases. The biggest one to me is that Diane Prevost went missing from a very popular camp ground.

I have camped at Grundy Provincial Park it is nowhere near as remote as the pictures of Timber Creek show it is. At Grundy you have others camping beside you, there are trees inbetween but not thick brush. There are bathrooms with showers. There are always "Rangers" park staff on duty.

 

[renarde]

Here's a link to news articles about Diane Prévost. She was two and a half years old when she vanished. Lots of differences between the two, but also many similarities...

Diane Prévost - Missing Since 1966 - Grundy Lake Provincial Park, Ontario Canada:

Diane Prevost

 

[squareandrabbet]

Here's a link to news articles about Diane Prévost. She was two and a half years old when she vanished. Lots of differences between the two, but also many similarities...

Diane Prévost - Missing Since 1966 - Grundy Lake Provincial Park, Ontario Canada:

Diane Prevost

Not trying to discount the above nor to discourage people from reading the details; but I can't help but think that disappearances evaluated in 1966 are not the same as disappearances evaluated in the 21st century, either technology-wise or knowledge-wise. Not a law enforcement official nor particularly science minded; just thinking with common sense - maybe someone with experience in either field can confirm or deny.

 

[MsMarple]

Here's a link to news articles about Diane Prévost. She was two and a half years old when she vanished. Lots of differences between the two, but also many similarities...

Diane Prévost - Missing Since 1966 - Grundy Lake Provincial Park, Ontario Canada:

Diane Prevost

Such a sad story. I can see the similarities and differences, including people accusing the parents of foul play. And no sign of Diane from divers and air searches.

Although searchers used the technology available at the time fast forward 50+ years and we have new methods like side sonar and planes equipped with FLIT. But sometimes no amount of technology or searching yields a clue when a little one disappears from a campground.

I still wonder about the outhouse at the campground. I did post a question about whether or not it had been searched way back in the beginning but someone replied that it had. That kind of was my last resort thought about what happened to Deorr.

IMO it's hard to return to other theories when considering the conflicting stories given by Deorr's parents. I know the impossible can and does happen - I remember the story of Julie Rea, convicted of murdering her son. She was acquitted after evidence led to serial killer Tommy Lynn Sells.

But Deorr's disappearance was very different and no trace of him - not those oversized boots, clothing, blood or hair - was ever found. So it's difficult to conclude that an animal or the water took him. Combined with his parents' lack of consistent stories it isn't difficult to understand the accusations.

 

[Arnie M]

This sounds familiar but I can’t place it, so could you kindly provide a link for this? TIA

Dont have a link handy at this moment .... it happened several years ago .... and it all began with the MISSING 411 books and stories and radio interviews ..... the author (David Paulides) tended to attribute the "unsolved" disappearances to Bigfoot or some other mysterious wilderness phenomenon.

He probably did it to spice up his book sales but I was a skeptic so did some research and found a lot of those disappearances were subsequently solved ..... and nothing mysterious about them . Back then I did a few posts on the MISSING 411 threads on WS.

The missing 6 year old boy (posted above) was one of the topics that was used to discredit Paulides ... I do not dislike the guy , I just have a problem with the baloney drama he uses.

David Paulides - Wikipedia

 

[Trident]

Dont have a link handy at this moment .... it happened several years ago .... and it all began with the MISSING 411 books and stories and radio interviews ..... the author (David Paulides) tended to attribute the "unsolved" disappearances to Bigfoot or some other mysterious wilderness phenomenon.

He probably did it to spice up his book sales but I was a skeptic so did some research and found a lot of those disappearances were subsequently solved ..... and nothing mysterious about them . Back then I did a few posts on the MISSING 411 threads on WS.

The missing 6 year old boy (posted above) was one of the topics that was used to discredit Paulides ... I do not dislike the guy , I just have a problem with the baloney drama he uses.

BBM. No, he did not attribute the disappearances to anything, he has been very careful about that. It would be nice if people would stop saying that 'cause it ain't true.

 

[neesaki]

Dont have a link handy at this moment .... it happened several years ago .... and it all began with the MISSING 411 books and stories and radio interviews ..... the author (David Paulides) tended to attribute the "unsolved" disappearances to Bigfoot or some other mysterious wilderness phenomenon.

He probably did it to spice up his book sales but I was a skeptic so did some research and found a lot of those disappearances were subsequently solved ..... and nothing mysterious about them . Back then I did a few posts on the MISSING 411 threads on WS.

The missing 6 year old boy (posted above) was one of the topics that was used to discredit Paulides ... I do not dislike the guy , I just have a problem with the baloney drama he uses.

It was somewhere in the back of my mind but had to go back to my Watched Threads..... was it Victor Shoemaker? He disappeared while his family was camping in West Virginia. Never found. Mysterious and tragically sad case as most of these are.
WV - WV - Victor Shoemaker, 5, Kirby, 1 May 1994

ETA: sorry, but I think I have my cases confused. He went missing but not from a campsite.
I’ll have to dig deeper.

ETA: Maybe it was Kurt Newton, sounds more like it.
ME - ME - Kurt Newton, 4, Chain of Ponds, 1 Sept 1975

 

[MsMarple]

Dont have a link handy at this moment .... it happened several years ago .... and it all began with the MISSING 411 books and stories and radio interviews ..... the author (David Paulides) tended to attribute the "unsolved" disappearances to Bigfoot or some other mysterious wilderness phenomenon.

He probably did it to spice up his book sales but I was a skeptic so did some research and found a lot of those disappearances were subsequently solved ..... and nothing mysterious about them . Back then I did a few posts on the MISSING 411 threads on WS.

The missing 6 year old boy (posted above) was one of the topics that was used to discredit Paulides ... I do not dislike the guy , I just have a problem with the baloney drama he uses.

ITA. Someone who calls himself a "cryptozoologist" loses credibility in my eyes. As long as he folds the idea of Bigfoot into his investigations I question his reasoning abilities. Was Deorr taken by an imaginary creature that cannot be photographed and leaves no scat, hair or DNA? Um, no.

 

[Arnie M]

.
A bit off topic but here is a recent search near where I live ..... an 84 year old woman did not return after picking berries and a search was launched.

“There were dogs, there were horses, there were people on ATVs . “They said something like 300 people had come to show up over the course of three to four days.

“We had drones, we had a helicopter and two planes – they covered so much ground. We just didn’t know what else they could have done.”

She was missing so long that police called off the search and the family was warned by authorities after four days that they should prepare for the worst – that searchers were likely looking for a body.

Well guess what .... they found her not far from where she was picking berries ..... alive and well.

Missing Manitoba grandmother, presumed dead, found alive after four-day ordeal

 

[Arnie M]

BBM. No, he did not attribute the disappearances to anything, he has been very careful about that. It would be nice if people would stop saying that 'cause it ain't true.

I have listened to at least 6 hours of his interviews and you are technically correct that he does not come right out and blame Bigfoot .... but he hints at it continually ... and that is the point. He is a former policeman (gives him some credibility) but he is a clever marketer who knows if he spices it up with mysterious wilderness disappearance he will sell a lot of books .... keep in mind that his book is not so much about the disappearances as it is about the mysterious circumstances surrounding them

In the cases where the people were subsequently solved after his books came out turned out to be typical people getting lost or disoriented and searcher unable to find them at first.

He may have fooled a lot of people but he did not fool me. I do however credit him with being a clever marketer and good at garnering publicity. It sells a lot of books

David Paulides - Wikipedia