Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #15

[KonaHonu]

Is it new info that AC took his new wife’s last name?! Or am I reading this document incorrectly?

News to me but not sure it is significant.

 

[distracted]

This is a quite interesting point of view from Keith Morrison



'Dateline NBC' correspondent Keith Morrison discusses the case of missing Rexburg kids

His last comment - “You know I’ve been around a while and in my experience, every time people get a little too big for their britches in terms of believing they have an inside track with the almighty, bad things tend to happen" - is quite telling, to me at least.

When I think of all of the religious leaders/zealots who have drawn a cult-like following during the past 40 years, very bad things have happened. And I agree with Keith - very bad things happened this time, too.

 

[distracted]

Dateline didn't mention where LV's niece is currently. Is it possible that she has the kids?

 

[Moxie_McTavish]

This case is so odd and heartbreaking, I pray that the kids will be found safe and sound soon.

Regarding the storage unit and possible foul play, if they were going to store any human remains or blood-covered evidence within the storage unit, I would think they'd have chosen one of the outdoor units based on pure paranoia, as any smells of decomposition would have been intensified by the warmth of an indoor unit like they chose

 

[Avocado49]

So we have something new already - Alex told a conflicting story from Lori about JJ from day 1. Ugh.

I somehow knew they had talked to Alex that day!

 

[mickey2942]

What evidence would you have them arrested on?

That is probably what has LEO so frustrated.

I found the information that Lori had known Alex's wife before to be surprising. And I wonder what the amount of his life insurance policy was, and if the beneficiary was his dear sister, Lori.

The psycho religious beliefs/babble I found to be just rubbish. If Lori believed that people would be better off dead before the end of time, she would have been the first one to embrace it. That is probably her "fall back" plan, that she is crazy. Not a cold, calculating psychopath.

 

[squareandrabbet]

His last comment - “You know I’ve been around a while and in my experience, every time people get a little too big for their britches in terms of believing they have an inside track with the almighty, bad things tend to happen" - is quite telling, to me at least.

When I think of all of the religious leaders/zealots who have drawn a cult-like following during the past 40 years, very bad things have happened. And I agree with Keith - very bad things happened this time, too.

Agreed. I give extra weight to experience; and Keith's clearly had experience evaluating these types of deviant behaviors, far more so than I.

Tylee's aunt saying that Lori seemed like she was sincerely distressed about the end times, and trying to save the aunt's bacon?

Lori's friend April revealing that Lori came to her and told her that she was in the elite 144,000 remnant Lori was meant to help save? It may have been chilling to the rest of us, and even to April, to hear this; but in Lori's mind, think how much April must rate. Lori's doing her a high compliment by including her (or was. If I were April, I too would sleep with one eye open at this point).

But the larger, overall takeaway, to me is very dismaying; as Lori clearly didn't rate JJ in the same category as April.

If Lori doesn't think JJ is part of "the remnant"; then what use would she have for keeping him alive, if she thinks the end of the world is imminent?

It seems to me our hopes for proof of life, at this point, hinge on whether or not it was sheer exasperation when Lori told Charles she "no longer wanted him or JJ" any longer.

In the best case scenario, it was hyperbole.

In the worst case scenario, Lori meant it, which meant that if she wanted to get rid of JJ it also didn't really matter what Tylee thought about any of Lori's belief system; because Tylee wasn't going to let anything happen to JJ.

 

[Jethro4WS]

From a previous thread so I can't quote. But I wanted to comment on something jethro4ws said:

He quoted Idaho statutes about jurisdiction based on residency. The problem I have is that every state makes an overly inclusive claim about residency because that gives them tax claims. But as I learned when I moved to Hawaii, a US citizen is never a resident of multiple states. In my case I was a resident of both Arizona and Hawaii according to their individual laws so effectively I could choose. My long term intent based on my behaviors mattered, not so much the specifics outlined in statutes.

That said, the Idaho statute cites specific behaviors but also intents. Lori could have enrolled JJ in school as a babysitting service. If she intended her stay in Idaho to be temporary then she would not be a resident. So any jurisdictional claim would have to establish her intent.

A state can claim jurisdiction over a person - certainly JJ. Whatever residency Lori has is completely meaningless and has nothing to do with the actions at hand. Absent any proof to the contrary JJ is a resident of Idaho. Once a state has asserted its interest and has initiated a case it is up to the individual - Lori (as JJ's parent) - to refute that. As I said in the previous post, this is not a criminal court case and unlike a criminal court case the State is not the only party with the burden of proof. Rather, this is more like a civil action where each party presents their proof and a judge gets to decide. A jurisdictional challenge would require to Lori prove that JJ is a resident of another jurisdiction and thus Idaho lacks jurisdiction to act. She can't just say he isn't subject to Idaho courts and tell LE to keep guessing - she actually would have to provide proof. So, the case in Idaho will continue with or without her cooperation and she (as the parent) will be subject to whatever orders come from that court.

One of two things will happen. Lori will reveal where the children are or the State will be awarded custody of the children. In the latter case, Lori will then have to produce them or she will be arrested for felony Custodial Interference. If convicted, the penalty is up to 5 years in prison and/or up to a $50,000 fine. In addition, she can be required to pay all reasonable costs incurred by the State to locate and return the children. It can get very expensive the longer it goes on.

 

[brubud]

I believe that was Charles' ex-wife, not Alex's - she's the mother of his two older sons that were notified by text from Lori of their dad's death.

 

[mickey2942]

I believe that was Charles' ex-wife, not Alex's - she's the mother of his two older sons that were notified by text from Lori of their dad's death.

No, Lori's friend in Hawaii mentioned that Lori had known Zulema previously. And was impressed with her "power".

 

[mrjitty]

Once a state has asserted its interest and has initiated a case it is up to the individual - Lori (as JJ's parent) - to refute that. As I said in the previous post, this is not a criminal court case and unlike a criminal court case the State is not the only party with the burden of proof.

Right.

Procedural arguments are also a bit of a different beast to evidential burden of proof.

In this case, the Court of Iowa already asserted jurisdiction. That happened when State of Idaho opened proceedings. Horse is out of the stable big style.

It would now be up to the defendant to oppose jurisdiction by filing actual pleadings in opposition in Iowa, or filing a competing action in an out of state Court.

But we suspect that dog won't hunt;

1. because the kids are actually still in Iowa OR
2. because LV moved them out of state and can't reveal where OR
3. the kids are deceased

In any view, LV can't hide behind jurisdictional arguments without producing the kids. But when / if she did, the state is going to take them.

 

[brubud]

Investigation centers on Lori, asking her to see the children, and Lori lied to the police repeatedly. Alex's ex wife states Lori was always crazy.

Quoted wrong post, sorry - still learning! I have edited. Looooooooong time reader/lurker, (finally?!) first time poster. Was referencing this post when referring to CV's ex-wife talking about how she always felt LV was a bit off.

 

[katydid23]

What evidence would you have them arrested on?

That she was known to have 2 children, and family members say they have not seen or heard from the children for many months.

When police have tried to do wellness checks, she has lied about their whereabouts.

So she should be put in custody until she reveals their location. JMO

 

[mickey2942]

Quoted wrong post, sorry - still learning! I have edited. Looooooooong time reader/lurker, (finally?!) first time poster. Was referencing this post when referring to CV's ex-wife talking about how she always felt LV was a bit off.

Yes, CV's ex wife. I was watching and typing at the same time, while trying to manage a two year old. It probably isn't the greatest summary, and not much that we didn't already know, except for the one tidbit, that Zulema was Lori's friend, and part of the "cult".

 

[Trouble1321075]

The paintball incident is perhaps the strangest of all. For a long time I was convinced it was a paintball gun, simply because Tammy said it was a paintball gun (and I think she'd probably seen one before - plus, she said it had one if those big scoop things on top).

She didn't say "it was hard to see", or "I couldn't make it out", or that it "looked kinda like a paintball gun", she said it was a paintball gun. She also was not terrified enough to run (which one would think an appropriate action if facing a man with a real gun) but immediately thought of perhaps defending herself by hitting her assailant with the frozen entrees she'd just bought at the grocery store.

Even if you claim she couldn't identify what it was, I think most people would claim it was a gun and not a paintball gun. You would've almost had to see a paintball gun to make the claim (vs a real rifle or gun). But I know, that doesn't solve it for sure.

It's also bizarre to me, because if Alex was holding a silenced 45 with a scope on top (they do have scopes for some handguns, but they're not scoopy looking), it could have possibly looked like a paintball gun. BUT - if was the case, I believe Tammy would've died right there in her driveway. First, Alex was a gun nut. Even if a cartridge had jammed in the slide, he would've known how to easily remove it. And if he actually did fire the weapon, how the hell could he have missed from close-enough range that he could been hit with a frozen dinner? And lastly, if the gun jammed, he could've just beaten her to death with it (unless she immediately started screaming for Chad from the very moment she saw him). Surely he could have overpowered and silenced her.

I can only assume it was either an attempt to scare her (why? I don't know) or that it truly was a prank. I guess we'll only truly know when PD tell us if they found any casings or loaded cartridges. Just hard to believe that if AC went there to kill her, that he was unable to do so. He was a "professional" with guns.

I have always had and still have a problem with making sense of the confusion surrounding the guns and the shots.
I have fired paintball guns and real guns and there is no confusing the difference in the noise they create. Even if the gun was equipped with a silencer, which i have never used, i am told ftom people who have that they dont really reduce the sound as significantly as the movies portray them. You would still want to use ear protection because they are that loud. In other words its next to impossible to confuse a real gun shot discharge sound with a paintball gun sound. Even empty or a missfire would be hard to confuse. Theres a distinct noise difference between a gun with a firing pin and a gun using a CO2 cartridge.
It is just 1 more thing on a long list of hings that do not add up for me.

 

[Colorado303]

Law enforcement officials have said that JJ and Tylee may never be found. There is a lot of evidence.

The storage unit was searched in November by police, there was plenty of information about when Lori goes to storage unit, heavy totes. Man struggling with totes. October 28th, a man puts a bike in storage unit, with Chad.

No totes in the storage unit. Dateline is going through the pictures and stuff in storage unit. Talking about the kids bikes. Ex wife of Alex talking, Tylee's Aunt asks for Lori to do the right thing. Last scene, is Lori and Chad going down an escalator, back to cameras. Lori is definitely not wearing any LDS temple garments, shorts and tank top.

That is all for this edition of "Dateline".

WTH? Where is the new information? Zip.

Two significant things new to me:

1). Alex’s new wife had a strong connection to Lori and the Chad/Lori crazy train before marrying Alex.

2). Chandler Detectives were suspicious of Charles’ death from the get-go and still are.

The interviews w/Lori’s Hawaii friend and Chandler Detectives were particularly interesting. I’m surprised how forthcoming they were.

IIRC nobody said they thought the kids were still alive. Nobody. Grandparents said they were holding out hope until they know otherwise but you could tell Grandfather is starting to accept that they’re probably gone.

 

[Trouble1321075]

MOO
Let me start by saying I have no clue what the motive is behind all of this nor do I have any clue the fate of those poor kids.
What I am fairly confident about is whatever this is about, it was premeditated.
Lori apparently thought she was going to be able to collect $1 million life insurance beneifits on her deceased. That may of been what was going to finance the plot?
I also been thinking about whats behind these marriages too. All 3 of them are vey suspicious. Could it be they are using them as a legal protection to prevent from being forced to testify against eachother? I just cant figure out how to explain why these people would all suddenly get married.
I know we are limited in what we can sleuth but I don't think we are gonna understand what happened until we learn more about this cult they belonged too and the new spouses and what roles they play in all of this.

 

[mickey2942]

Two significant things new to me:

1). Alex’s new wife had a strong connection to Lori and the Chad/Lori crazy train before marrying Alex.

2). Chandler Detectives were suspicious of Charles’ death from the get-go and still are.

The interviews w/Lori’s Hawaii friend and Chandler Detectives were particularly interesting. I’m surprised how forthcoming they were.

IIRC nobody said they thought the kids were still alive. Nobody. Grandparents said they were holding out hope until they know otherwise but you could tell Grandfather is starting to accept that they’re probably gone.

I can't wrap my head around Chad and Lori Daybell. Living their dream life in Hawaii. The swath of mysterious deaths, and missing children back on the mainland.

Both of them, are the same. Obviously, they are perfect for each other. A normal man, not want to be with a woman who flaunts the law, and has missing kids. That would be way too much drama for a regular guy. And honestly, if I was dating a guy, who's wife had been dug up for an autopsy, it would be so over.

These two, hold hands on the escalator.

 

[Etrup23]

Two significant things new to me:

1). Alex’s new wife had a strong connection to Lori and the Chad/Lori crazy train before marrying Alex.

2). Chandler Detectives were suspicious of Charles’ death from the get-go and still are.

The interviews w/Lori’s Hawaii friend and Chandler Detectives were particularly interesting. I’m surprised how forthcoming they were.

IIRC nobody said they thought the kids were still alive. Nobody. Grandparents said they were holding out hope until they know otherwise but you could tell Grandfather is starting to accept that they’re probably gone.

I didn't see the Dateline episode yet. Was Lori's Hawaii friend interviewed in the show? Did they by chance ask her about the kids as well?

I find it profound the kids have not been heard or seen for this long, which points to the worst. Since, they've been missing so long I just don't understand how you couldn't arrest LV or CD on the fact of conspiracy or an accessory or something along those lines for the NUMBER of crimes committed over these past months.

I also find it odd Chad Daybell's kids are not pleading with him to come home/forward. This case is upsetting to say the least..

 

[Etrup23]

MOO
Let me start by saying I have no clue what the motive is behind all of this nor do I have any clue the fate of those poor kids.
What I am fairly confident about is whatever this is about, it was premeditated.
Lori apparently thought she was going to be able to collect $1 million life insurance beneifits on her deceased. That may of been what was going to finance the plot?
I also been thinking about whats behind these marriages too. All 3 of them are vey suspicious. Could it be they are using them as a legal protection to prevent from being forced to testify against eachother? I just cant figure out how to explain why these people would all suddenly get married.
I know we are limited in what we can sleuth but I don't think we are gonna understand what happened until we learn more about this cult they belonged too and the new spouses and what roles they play in all of this.

Agreed, and great point about the marriage and testimony. I hope Hawaiian's specifically in Kauai start some sort of protest to kick them off their islands..