mysteriew
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I know most states now obtain DNA on at least some of their prisoners. But I think TK is a federal prisoner, and I am not sure they have the same laws.
IL IL - Chicago Tylenol Murders: 7 people dead from cyanide poisoning, 1982
- Thread starter samhoney
- Start date
I know most states now obtain DNA on at least some of their prisoners. But I think TK is a federal prisoner, and I am not sure they have the same laws.
At the time Ted Kaczynski pled guilty to federal explosives charges (NOT murder), those charges did NOT trigger a DNA draw.
ABC News reports the FBI is now seeking a court order to compel a DNA draw on Ted Kaczynski.
In his legal motion, Ted seems to anticipate that his DNA may well match the partial DNA profile obtained from a tainted Tylenol bottle!
I see in his legal motion Ted stated he "never even possessed potassium cyanide." To "possess" something implies purchase and/or ownership. So that may be literally true but very deceptive.
Please remember that his neighbor Chris Waits did silver and gold prospecting, and used CYANIDE to do this. Chris had a garage and outdoor area where he stored tools and supplies, and he let Ted have free access to this area. This area would have had cyanide in it. I suggested to the FBI that they might wish to interview Chris Waits on this subject.
ALSO:
On pages 46 - 47 of the book Unabomber: The Secret Life Of Ted Kaczynski by Chris Waits and Dave Shors, Waits relates how he told Ted about an old deserted gold mine shaft, and how there was equipment, supplies and a few gold flakes left there. Waits told Ted how to prospect for silver and gold. We know Cyanide is used in gold mining. He states Ted did likely go there and notes several items found in the FBI inventory of Ted's cabin suggesting he did go there, including:
FBI Inventory # L60 - Container of white powder
Cyanide, of course, is a white powder.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/05/20/us/20tylenol-text.html?ref=us
For more information see http://unazod.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=63
ABC News reports the FBI is now seeking a court order to compel a DNA draw on Ted Kaczynski.
In his legal motion, Ted seems to anticipate that his DNA may well match the partial DNA profile obtained from a tainted Tylenol bottle!
I see in his legal motion Ted stated he "never even possessed potassium cyanide." To "possess" something implies purchase and/or ownership. So that may be literally true but very deceptive.
Please remember that his neighbor Chris Waits did silver and gold prospecting, and used CYANIDE to do this. Chris had a garage and outdoor area where he stored tools and supplies, and he let Ted have free access to this area. This area would have had cyanide in it. I suggested to the FBI that they might wish to interview Chris Waits on this subject.
ALSO:
On pages 46 - 47 of the book Unabomber: The Secret Life Of Ted Kaczynski by Chris Waits and Dave Shors, Waits relates how he told Ted about an old deserted gold mine shaft, and how there was equipment, supplies and a few gold flakes left there. Waits told Ted how to prospect for silver and gold. We know Cyanide is used in gold mining. He states Ted did likely go there and notes several items found in the FBI inventory of Ted's cabin suggesting he did go there, including:
FBI Inventory # L60 - Container of white powder
Cyanide, of course, is a white powder.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/05/20/us/20tylenol-text.html?ref=us
For more information see http://unazod.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=63
A new picture showing the Tylenol Murders suspect, "The Bearded Man", clearly watching Paula Prince buy the tainted Tylenol that would kill her.
There was a very grainy photo printed in Chicago and New York newspapers of a bearded man who was apparently watching flight attendant Paula Prince purchase tainted Tylenol in 1982. This bearded man may have no connection to the case, or he may have been the Tylenol Killer watching to see the person who purchased his poisoned capsules. The man was wanted for questioning as suspect in the Tylenol Murders. FBI serial killer profiler John Douglas, who worked on the case, states in his book The Anatomy of Motive the FBI did suspect that the man in the picture was the UNSUB (Unknown Subject) likely responsible for the Tylenol Murders.
The man in the photo was first compared to the bearded James Lewis, and they do share some characteristics, but they did not appear to be the same person. The bearded man in the photo does have some very strong and interesting similarities with the bearded Theodore Kaczynski. (Unfortunately, Lewis and Kaczynski do look somewhat like each other).
We must remember that Kaczynski used disguises when he purchased bomb parts. In one instance he records in his journal he wore several shirts to make himself look heavier, stuffed the shirt for the same reason, put cotton balls in his cheeks, wax in his nostrils to make them larger, gum under his lips and cut and dyed his hair and beard. The man looks very much like a moderately disguised Kaczynski, if Kaczynski also cut his hair back to give the appearance of a more receding hairline. Perhaps a better version of the photo can be obtained, or other photos examined to see if Kaczynski is in any of them.
A photo of the man and photographs of Kaczynski are attached. The only major difference is the man in the photo has a more receding hairline, which Kaczynski could easily have implemented as a disguise action, in effect making himself look older. There are many strong similarities between the two: Bearded white men of the same approximate age, height, weight, same basic facial structure, eyes, nose, flat hair on the sides, bigger hair on top, beard, even the gray spot at the bottom of the beard matches. See the photo below.
Close up on man who is a Tylenol Murders suspect 1982 and TK 1981.
Another look at the Tylenol suspect watching Paula Prince buy the tainted Tylenol which would kill her and Ted Kaczynski.
Photograph of bearded man considered a suspect in the Tylenol Murders watching Paula Prince buy tainted Tylenol and Ted Kaczynski 1981
Ted Kaczynski's family home in Lombard, Illinois is within 20 minutes of all the 1982 Chicago area Tylenol tampering sites, at the exact epicenter in fact.
And in July 1982 - the possible "test run" for the September Chicago murders - a 19 year old man named Jay Mitchell was killed by Cyanide tainted Tylenol just minutes from the Wyoming - Montana border, close to where Ted Kaczynski's cabin was located. The coroner said the cyanide that killed Jay Mitchell was the EXACT SAME AMOUNT as the cyanide that killed the Chicago area residents.
Here are the Chicago area victims of the Tylenol Murderer. Brings home the loss of life in this case.
Location of stores with tainted Tylenol.
Graphic below is by Doug Oswell, showing the tainted Tylenol sites. It does slightly resemble a Yggdrasil Symbol/Algiz Rune, which translates as "Z". Means to "wound severely; to mark with blood". Also stands for the "World Tree", a symbol of nature. Norse tribes would hold a "TING" there, a tribe meeting, and weddings. But also court and sacrifices - it also stands for "Tree of Terror - Gallows". Ted spraypainted a Yggdrasil/Algiz Rune at the campus of a Unabomber target, Professor Hill.
You can see that the Kaczynski family home in Lombard is at the exact epicenter of the placement sites. Lombard is the site where the attack lines converge. It is centrally placed for someone to spring forth and do the attacks. It may even have been a teasing clue.
For more information see http://unazod.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=63
There was a very grainy photo printed in Chicago and New York newspapers of a bearded man who was apparently watching flight attendant Paula Prince purchase tainted Tylenol in 1982. This bearded man may have no connection to the case, or he may have been the Tylenol Killer watching to see the person who purchased his poisoned capsules. The man was wanted for questioning as suspect in the Tylenol Murders. FBI serial killer profiler John Douglas, who worked on the case, states in his book The Anatomy of Motive the FBI did suspect that the man in the picture was the UNSUB (Unknown Subject) likely responsible for the Tylenol Murders.
The man in the photo was first compared to the bearded James Lewis, and they do share some characteristics, but they did not appear to be the same person. The bearded man in the photo does have some very strong and interesting similarities with the bearded Theodore Kaczynski. (Unfortunately, Lewis and Kaczynski do look somewhat like each other).
We must remember that Kaczynski used disguises when he purchased bomb parts. In one instance he records in his journal he wore several shirts to make himself look heavier, stuffed the shirt for the same reason, put cotton balls in his cheeks, wax in his nostrils to make them larger, gum under his lips and cut and dyed his hair and beard. The man looks very much like a moderately disguised Kaczynski, if Kaczynski also cut his hair back to give the appearance of a more receding hairline. Perhaps a better version of the photo can be obtained, or other photos examined to see if Kaczynski is in any of them.
A photo of the man and photographs of Kaczynski are attached. The only major difference is the man in the photo has a more receding hairline, which Kaczynski could easily have implemented as a disguise action, in effect making himself look older. There are many strong similarities between the two: Bearded white men of the same approximate age, height, weight, same basic facial structure, eyes, nose, flat hair on the sides, bigger hair on top, beard, even the gray spot at the bottom of the beard matches. See the photo below.
Close up on man who is a Tylenol Murders suspect 1982 and TK 1981.
Another look at the Tylenol suspect watching Paula Prince buy the tainted Tylenol which would kill her and Ted Kaczynski.
Photograph of bearded man considered a suspect in the Tylenol Murders watching Paula Prince buy tainted Tylenol and Ted Kaczynski 1981
Ted Kaczynski's family home in Lombard, Illinois is within 20 minutes of all the 1982 Chicago area Tylenol tampering sites, at the exact epicenter in fact.
And in July 1982 - the possible "test run" for the September Chicago murders - a 19 year old man named Jay Mitchell was killed by Cyanide tainted Tylenol just minutes from the Wyoming - Montana border, close to where Ted Kaczynski's cabin was located. The coroner said the cyanide that killed Jay Mitchell was the EXACT SAME AMOUNT as the cyanide that killed the Chicago area residents.
Here are the Chicago area victims of the Tylenol Murderer. Brings home the loss of life in this case.
Location of stores with tainted Tylenol.
Graphic below is by Doug Oswell, showing the tainted Tylenol sites. It does slightly resemble a Yggdrasil Symbol/Algiz Rune, which translates as "Z". Means to "wound severely; to mark with blood". Also stands for the "World Tree", a symbol of nature. Norse tribes would hold a "TING" there, a tribe meeting, and weddings. But also court and sacrifices - it also stands for "Tree of Terror - Gallows". Ted spraypainted a Yggdrasil/Algiz Rune at the campus of a Unabomber target, Professor Hill.
You can see that the Kaczynski family home in Lombard is at the exact epicenter of the placement sites. Lombard is the site where the attack lines converge. It is centrally placed for someone to spring forth and do the attacks. It may even have been a teasing clue.
For more information see http://unazod.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=63
The work to connect all this is amazing. I'm not ready to jump to the zodiac connection yet but this looks exactly like something he could do(the tylenol murders). especially lined up this way, the travel distances, the references to nature themes after getting up set for the factory dumping of cyanide.
These links are dated to 2009. Why is this being talked about right now? because it's unreal to think they don't have vials of his dna?
You would think one murder theme going on at a time is enough. But it fits w/ how crazy smart he was in all the planning and follow thru. imo
These links are dated to 2009. Why is this being talked about right now? because it's unreal to think they don't have vials of his dna?
You would think one murder theme going on at a time is enough. But it fits w/ how crazy smart he was in all the planning and follow thru. imo
Ambercat
Well-Known Member
For a long time, I believed that the killer was a woman, partly because carrying around the poisoned Tylenol in a purse then slipping it onto the store shelf when no one was looking seems like the most logical way for getting it onto the shelf.
If I remember correctly, didn't after the first person Ted Kaczynski killed through bombing, he made some comment in his journal about that he had finally found a humane way to kill people? I don't mean to be strange, but poisoning seems a lot more humane way to die than through bombing. Maybe I am not remembering correctly.
Cubby
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Toby there were some MSM articles about this in yesterdays news.
AKWILKS - I agree with your above post regarding the hairline between TK and the man in the survellience photo. Though, with closer look it appears TK could have had a receding hairline and combed his hair in a manner to cover it. If you look at the photo's TK has more of a 'messy' look. If he didn't want to attract attention to himself while in any of these stores he would have had to 'clean up' to not attract attention. It's possible imo, the survellience photo is a cleaned up version of TK.
Kind of thinking outloud. I'm not that familiar with this case. Could you give me a date order to match the stores? Would the Winfield and Schaumburg locations happen to be the earliest two? I ask because being local to this area back in the early 80's Winfield and Schaumburg where not as developed as they are currently. In fact, Winfield currently does not have it's own police force and whichever agency handles Winfield is funded by Lake County. (which I never knew until very recently, made MSM not long ago). There is or was a Jewel distribution center in Elk Grove Village on Lunt Ave just west of Elmhurst Rd. (that came to mind due to the EGV location). No real thoughts on the Arlington Hts or Chicago choices but I can't help but wonder if TK had access to that Distribution Ctr/Warehouse on Lunt in EGV. Not sure if that means anything based on your research but thought I would toss it out there.
AKWILKS - I agree with your above post regarding the hairline between TK and the man in the survellience photo. Though, with closer look it appears TK could have had a receding hairline and combed his hair in a manner to cover it. If you look at the photo's TK has more of a 'messy' look. If he didn't want to attract attention to himself while in any of these stores he would have had to 'clean up' to not attract attention. It's possible imo, the survellience photo is a cleaned up version of TK.
Kind of thinking outloud. I'm not that familiar with this case. Could you give me a date order to match the stores? Would the Winfield and Schaumburg locations happen to be the earliest two? I ask because being local to this area back in the early 80's Winfield and Schaumburg where not as developed as they are currently. In fact, Winfield currently does not have it's own police force and whichever agency handles Winfield is funded by Lake County. (which I never knew until very recently, made MSM not long ago). There is or was a Jewel distribution center in Elk Grove Village on Lunt Ave just west of Elmhurst Rd. (that came to mind due to the EGV location). No real thoughts on the Arlington Hts or Chicago choices but I can't help but wonder if TK had access to that Distribution Ctr/Warehouse on Lunt in EGV. Not sure if that means anything based on your research but thought I would toss it out there.
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Found the address of the Osco/Jewel Warehouse in EGV. 2401 Lunt Ave. There is an interesting copy of an ad for a warehouse position around the time the murders occured. Also some mention of a possible Film Recovery Systems connection.
http://americanfraud.com/elkgroevillage.aspx
http://americanfraud.com/elkgroevillage.aspx
Thanks to all for the comments. TobyWong I think the Nature/Trees/Wood clues are a major "criminal signature" linking Ted Kaczynski to this case. And the geography is amazing. Lombard where his family home was is the exact epicenter of the placements.
That is interesting, yes, I think the picture does look like a "cleaned up" version of Ted. He wouldn't go into a store with his "mountain man" messy appearance, you are right, that would attract attention, he wanted to blend in.
Ted did make a reference about a "humane way" to kill people in his journal.
The victim deaths started the morning of September 29, 1982. They think most of the bottles were probably placed between September 25th and 28th. I don't think we can know the order. You can see my maps above that show the placement sites. The sites are consistent with someone based in Lombard taking a bus or car and going in a semi-circle.
I got my first newspaper mention in the Chicago Daily Herald article below. At least she interviewed me (AK Wilks) and Douglas Oswell www.unazod.com and printed our names and comments, and points out we were the first to research this and contact the FBI. My main research article is 55,000 words, it is a lot to go through! I have sent the reporter some new information as well. I first spoke to her in 2009. Hopefully this is just a start and she will follow up with a more detailed article as she reads more of our work, that is the impression I got from talking to her.
The Chicago Daily Herald is a medium sized paper that covers the Chicago suburbs. I hope this gets picked up by the Chicago Tribune, Sacramento Bee and other papers.
http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20110519/news/705199967/
By Jamie Sotonoff and Deborah Donovan
FBI wants to test Unabomber DNA in Tylenol killings
Could the Unabomber and the Tylenol killer — who both left victims across the suburbs — be the same person?
The Federal Bureau of Investigations wants DNA from Evergreen Park native Theodore Kaczynski, the so-called Unabomber imprisoned for life for killing three people. The agency won’t say why, but Kaczynski, in a court filing, said the FBI wants to determine if he was responsible for the 1982 Tylenol poisonings. He denies any involvement in the Tylenol case. Seven people died in three days when cyanide-filled capsules were put into Extra Strength Tylenol bottles on retail store shelves in Cook and DuPage counties. The deaths triggered a massive product recall, widespread consumer panic and new standards for tamper-proof product packaging.
Killed were Mary Kellerman, 12, of Elk Grove Village; Adam Janus of Arlington Heights; Stanley Janus of Lisle, the brother of Adam; Theresa Janus of Lisle, Stanley’s wife; Mary McFarland of Elmhurst; Paula Prince of Chicago and Mary Reiner of Winfield.
Chicago FBI spokeswoman Cynthia Yates confirmed Thursday that the agency asked for Kaczynski’s DNA, saying he is among “numerous individuals” from whom the FBI wants samples. She would not provide details about any of the others.
Kaczynski’s initial bomb targets were in the Chicago area, with two bombs exploding at Northwestern University in Evanston in 1978 and 1979; one placed on a United Airlines jet leaving O’Hare International Airport in 1979, forcing an emergency landing; and another exploding at the Lake Forest home of United Airlines’ president in 1980.
Kaczynski disclosed the DNA request in court papers in an effort to stop an auction of his belongings, now in progress. The 68-year-old former mathematics professor also wrote in his motion: “I have never even possessed any potassium cyanide.”
Kaczynski’s attorney, John Balasz, said he’s “completely convinced” Kaczynski had no involvement in the Tylenol case and thinks the FBI wants his DNA only so they can definitively rule him out as a suspect.
Kaczynski has refused to voluntarily give the sample, and in the motion filed over his belongings, said he’d be willing to go to court over it.
The FBI collected DNA samples from Kaczynski after his arrest, but that material “might have degraded to the point that it is not usable,” said Ross Rice with the FBI in Chicago. “It’s always best to have a current sample.”
Kaczynski wants to keep certain items taken from his cabin in 1996, including journals he says could prove his whereabouts in 1982 and other evidence that could clear him in the Tylenol case.
Kaczynski grew up in Evergreen Park before enrolling at Harvard University at age 16. After graduating he lived in Michigan and California, then returned to suburban Chicago in 1972 and used his family’s Lombard address to acquire an Illinois driver’s license. He surrendered that license for one in Montana in 1973, but renewed his Illinois license in 1978.
In 1996, Kaczynski was arrested at a remote Montana cabin and charged with sending 16 mail bombs that killed three people and injured 23 others.
“I don’t know how strong of a suspect he is, but based on his past, I can see why the FBI is doing this as a process of elimination,” said Arlington Heights Police Cmdr. Kenneth Galinski, whose department has an officer assigned to work with the FBI on the Tylenol case.
Despite national hysteria, intense media attention and what was initially a 140-member police task force, the Tylenol killer was never found and investigators said the trail was cold.
Thursday’s news marks the first time in decades the FBI has put the spotlight on someone other than James Lewis, the Boston man widely believed to be the killer.
Lewis spent 12 years in jail for extortion after he sent Johnson & Johnson, the maker of Tylenol, a letter demanding $1 million to “stop the killing.” He has denied any responsibility in the cyanide poisonings.
“I would certainly think he is still a person of interest,” Galinski said. “I don’t know if the FBI has learned everything they want to know about him.”
Dozens of different theories about suspects have circulated over the years, pointing to everyone from Johnson & Johnson’s competitors to Roger Arnold (now deceased), a convicted killer who worked at Jewel’s distribution facility in Melrose Park.
True crime author Douglas Oswell and researcher A.K. Wilks are among those who always suspected the Unabomber was connected to the case. They shared their research with the FBI and published it online.
Wilks said he emailed the FBI after the 2009 raid of Lewis’ home, when he “thought they might be going down the wrong road,” and ended up speaking at length with two different FBI agents. He also contacted authorities suggesting they stop the auction of Kaczynski’s items, because he thought they might contain valuable evidence.
“The fact that (the FBI) called me twice made me somewhat hopeful,” said Wilks. “If the authorities give it a serious look, that’s all you can ask for.”
“If I were on a jury right now, I couldn’t convict him. But if I was a cop right now, I’d have to be brain-dead not to be interested in him,” said Oswell, who lives in Delaware and describes himself as “an ordinary Joe” fascinated by criminal psychology.
Helen Jensen of Arlington Heights doesn’t know who committed the Tylenol murders. But the former nurse, who accompanied investigators to the Kellerman home on the day the girl died, said she hopes this latest news isn’t a dead end like so many before. She still occasionally talks to the victim’s grandmother and said her “whole family was destroyed by it.”
“It sure would be nice to finally get some end to the whole thing, for the people that are survivors,” Jensen said.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Read more: http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20110519/news/705199967/#ixzz1Mvjgrgk0
That is interesting, yes, I think the picture does look like a "cleaned up" version of Ted. He wouldn't go into a store with his "mountain man" messy appearance, you are right, that would attract attention, he wanted to blend in.
Ted did make a reference about a "humane way" to kill people in his journal.
The victim deaths started the morning of September 29, 1982. They think most of the bottles were probably placed between September 25th and 28th. I don't think we can know the order. You can see my maps above that show the placement sites. The sites are consistent with someone based in Lombard taking a bus or car and going in a semi-circle.
I got my first newspaper mention in the Chicago Daily Herald article below. At least she interviewed me (AK Wilks) and Douglas Oswell www.unazod.com and printed our names and comments, and points out we were the first to research this and contact the FBI. My main research article is 55,000 words, it is a lot to go through! I have sent the reporter some new information as well. I first spoke to her in 2009. Hopefully this is just a start and she will follow up with a more detailed article as she reads more of our work, that is the impression I got from talking to her.
The Chicago Daily Herald is a medium sized paper that covers the Chicago suburbs. I hope this gets picked up by the Chicago Tribune, Sacramento Bee and other papers.
http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20110519/news/705199967/
By Jamie Sotonoff and Deborah Donovan
FBI wants to test Unabomber DNA in Tylenol killings
Could the Unabomber and the Tylenol killer — who both left victims across the suburbs — be the same person?
The Federal Bureau of Investigations wants DNA from Evergreen Park native Theodore Kaczynski, the so-called Unabomber imprisoned for life for killing three people. The agency won’t say why, but Kaczynski, in a court filing, said the FBI wants to determine if he was responsible for the 1982 Tylenol poisonings. He denies any involvement in the Tylenol case. Seven people died in three days when cyanide-filled capsules were put into Extra Strength Tylenol bottles on retail store shelves in Cook and DuPage counties. The deaths triggered a massive product recall, widespread consumer panic and new standards for tamper-proof product packaging.
Killed were Mary Kellerman, 12, of Elk Grove Village; Adam Janus of Arlington Heights; Stanley Janus of Lisle, the brother of Adam; Theresa Janus of Lisle, Stanley’s wife; Mary McFarland of Elmhurst; Paula Prince of Chicago and Mary Reiner of Winfield.
Chicago FBI spokeswoman Cynthia Yates confirmed Thursday that the agency asked for Kaczynski’s DNA, saying he is among “numerous individuals” from whom the FBI wants samples. She would not provide details about any of the others.
Kaczynski’s initial bomb targets were in the Chicago area, with two bombs exploding at Northwestern University in Evanston in 1978 and 1979; one placed on a United Airlines jet leaving O’Hare International Airport in 1979, forcing an emergency landing; and another exploding at the Lake Forest home of United Airlines’ president in 1980.
Kaczynski disclosed the DNA request in court papers in an effort to stop an auction of his belongings, now in progress. The 68-year-old former mathematics professor also wrote in his motion: “I have never even possessed any potassium cyanide.”
Kaczynski’s attorney, John Balasz, said he’s “completely convinced” Kaczynski had no involvement in the Tylenol case and thinks the FBI wants his DNA only so they can definitively rule him out as a suspect.
Kaczynski has refused to voluntarily give the sample, and in the motion filed over his belongings, said he’d be willing to go to court over it.
The FBI collected DNA samples from Kaczynski after his arrest, but that material “might have degraded to the point that it is not usable,” said Ross Rice with the FBI in Chicago. “It’s always best to have a current sample.”
Kaczynski wants to keep certain items taken from his cabin in 1996, including journals he says could prove his whereabouts in 1982 and other evidence that could clear him in the Tylenol case.
Kaczynski grew up in Evergreen Park before enrolling at Harvard University at age 16. After graduating he lived in Michigan and California, then returned to suburban Chicago in 1972 and used his family’s Lombard address to acquire an Illinois driver’s license. He surrendered that license for one in Montana in 1973, but renewed his Illinois license in 1978.
In 1996, Kaczynski was arrested at a remote Montana cabin and charged with sending 16 mail bombs that killed three people and injured 23 others.
“I don’t know how strong of a suspect he is, but based on his past, I can see why the FBI is doing this as a process of elimination,” said Arlington Heights Police Cmdr. Kenneth Galinski, whose department has an officer assigned to work with the FBI on the Tylenol case.
Despite national hysteria, intense media attention and what was initially a 140-member police task force, the Tylenol killer was never found and investigators said the trail was cold.
Thursday’s news marks the first time in decades the FBI has put the spotlight on someone other than James Lewis, the Boston man widely believed to be the killer.
Lewis spent 12 years in jail for extortion after he sent Johnson & Johnson, the maker of Tylenol, a letter demanding $1 million to “stop the killing.” He has denied any responsibility in the cyanide poisonings.
“I would certainly think he is still a person of interest,” Galinski said. “I don’t know if the FBI has learned everything they want to know about him.”
Dozens of different theories about suspects have circulated over the years, pointing to everyone from Johnson & Johnson’s competitors to Roger Arnold (now deceased), a convicted killer who worked at Jewel’s distribution facility in Melrose Park.
True crime author Douglas Oswell and researcher A.K. Wilks are among those who always suspected the Unabomber was connected to the case. They shared their research with the FBI and published it online.
Wilks said he emailed the FBI after the 2009 raid of Lewis’ home, when he “thought they might be going down the wrong road,” and ended up speaking at length with two different FBI agents. He also contacted authorities suggesting they stop the auction of Kaczynski’s items, because he thought they might contain valuable evidence.
“The fact that (the FBI) called me twice made me somewhat hopeful,” said Wilks. “If the authorities give it a serious look, that’s all you can ask for.”
“If I were on a jury right now, I couldn’t convict him. But if I was a cop right now, I’d have to be brain-dead not to be interested in him,” said Oswell, who lives in Delaware and describes himself as “an ordinary Joe” fascinated by criminal psychology.
Helen Jensen of Arlington Heights doesn’t know who committed the Tylenol murders. But the former nurse, who accompanied investigators to the Kellerman home on the day the girl died, said she hopes this latest news isn’t a dead end like so many before. She still occasionally talks to the victim’s grandmother and said her “whole family was destroyed by it.”
“It sure would be nice to finally get some end to the whole thing, for the people that are survivors,” Jensen said.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Read more: http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20110519/news/705199967/#ixzz1Mvjgrgk0
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If Ted says he was not involved.
I believe him.
But do your testing anyways.
To eliminate him as a POI.
I believe him.
But do your testing anyways.
To eliminate him as a POI.
Cubby
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There is no bus route in Lombard that goes to the above mapped places where the tainted tylenol was purchased. The suburban bus routes are incredibly limited and basically provide transportation to various train stations heading into Chicago. There is a bus route further south in Lombard which runs a route (or did years ago) between Yorktown Mall and headed west on Madison Street (from Main Street) all the way to the City but that would be at least a 30 minute walk to where TK's parents lived on the other side of town closer to North Ave and Main St.
Also, there is no train route that makes that half circle to all the places the tainted tylenol was found.
IMO if TK was responsible he would have had to travel by car. In fact anyone who did this had to travel by car.
Also, there is no train route that makes that half circle to all the places the tainted tylenol was found.
IMO if TK was responsible he would have had to travel by car. In fact anyone who did this had to travel by car.
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AKWILKS - I assume there are no finger prints on file for the perp believed to have been responsible for the tylenol murders. If there were, I'd assume there would be no need for TK's dna. Am I correct with this assumption?
I'll assume there is a dna profile for the person responsible for the tylenol murders.
Forgive me for the questions. I have not done the extensive research as you have AK'. thanks!
I'll assume there is a dna profile for the person responsible for the tylenol murders.
Forgive me for the questions. I have not done the extensive research as you have AK'. thanks!
I would assume that no usable fingerprints were found. There were a number of "suspects" including James Lewis who were never "officially" ruled out. I think fingerprints would have ruled them out pretty quickly.
DNA, particularly "Touch" or "trace" DNA, may have been recovered from two or more packages. The technology for this has only become available recently. Any DNA found on only ONE package would be pretty much meaningless since so many different people would have handled each one. Two with the same, however would be hard to explain except that it came from the perp. My guess is that this is what is going on.
DNA, particularly "Touch" or "trace" DNA, may have been recovered from two or more packages. The technology for this has only become available recently. Any DNA found on only ONE package would be pretty much meaningless since so many different people would have handled each one. Two with the same, however would be hard to explain except that it came from the perp. My guess is that this is what is going on.
The initial reports were that DNA was recovered from a smudge within a partial fingerprint from a tainted Tylenol bottle. In early Janury 2010 James Lewis was fingerprinted and gave a DNA sample. Preliminary results on DNA can be obtained within days. Once a few months passsed with no indictment of James Lewis, it was safe to assume he was a no match to the partial fingerprint and the partial DNA profile.
Interesting fact, for 24 years the FBI has denied any link between the 1982 Chicago deaths and the 1986 Cyanide Tylenol deaths, like that of Yonkers, New York resident Diane Elsroth. Lewis was in prison so could not have done the 1986 cases. But in 2010 the FBI examined tainted CAPSULES from the New York case for fingerprints and DNA. I don't know if any were found, but traces of SILVER were found in the cyanide, which could mean many things, the most likely being the cyanide was stolen from an open or closed silver mine. Cyanide is used in silver and gold mining.
Also, a very small but perhaps very important detail. Prior to now, I had only heard reports that the FBI found a smudge within a fingerprint that contained DNA on a tainted bottle. Thus I was hopeful this could be DNA from the killer, but it seemed equally possible it could be DNA from a store clerk, shipper or browsing customer. Many people handle a bottle - the factory worker, the shipper, the store clerk, browsing customers and the sales clerk.
But this report sourced from the Chicago Tribune and printed in the Sacramento Bee says:
"It's unclear exactly what partial DNA evidence the FBI is looking to compare with Kaczynski's genetic material. One retired supervisor suggested FBI technicians may have been able to extract DNA from a fingerprint smudge found on a pill inside one of the contaminated bottles."
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/05/19/3641039/authorities-investigating-tylenol.html
And we know the FBI did look at the CAPSULES in the NY case. If that report above is true, then it seems to me far more likely that the DNA actually came from the killer. Since the victims should have been fingerprinted for elimination purposes, who else would have touched an actual pill INSIDE the bottle? Not a sales clerk, shipper or browsing customer. Perhaps someone at the factory?
But it seems most likely it would be the person who opened the capsules and filled them with cyanide. Perhaps even using a bit of saliva on finger to seal the capsule? Or perhaps it is other fluids like sweat, or the killer touched his nose or mouth before touching the capsule.
Interesting fact, for 24 years the FBI has denied any link between the 1982 Chicago deaths and the 1986 Cyanide Tylenol deaths, like that of Yonkers, New York resident Diane Elsroth. Lewis was in prison so could not have done the 1986 cases. But in 2010 the FBI examined tainted CAPSULES from the New York case for fingerprints and DNA. I don't know if any were found, but traces of SILVER were found in the cyanide, which could mean many things, the most likely being the cyanide was stolen from an open or closed silver mine. Cyanide is used in silver and gold mining.
Also, a very small but perhaps very important detail. Prior to now, I had only heard reports that the FBI found a smudge within a fingerprint that contained DNA on a tainted bottle. Thus I was hopeful this could be DNA from the killer, but it seemed equally possible it could be DNA from a store clerk, shipper or browsing customer. Many people handle a bottle - the factory worker, the shipper, the store clerk, browsing customers and the sales clerk.
But this report sourced from the Chicago Tribune and printed in the Sacramento Bee says:
"It's unclear exactly what partial DNA evidence the FBI is looking to compare with Kaczynski's genetic material. One retired supervisor suggested FBI technicians may have been able to extract DNA from a fingerprint smudge found on a pill inside one of the contaminated bottles."
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/05/19/3641039/authorities-investigating-tylenol.html
And we know the FBI did look at the CAPSULES in the NY case. If that report above is true, then it seems to me far more likely that the DNA actually came from the killer. Since the victims should have been fingerprinted for elimination purposes, who else would have touched an actual pill INSIDE the bottle? Not a sales clerk, shipper or browsing customer. Perhaps someone at the factory?
But it seems most likely it would be the person who opened the capsules and filled them with cyanide. Perhaps even using a bit of saliva on finger to seal the capsule? Or perhaps it is other fluids like sweat, or the killer touched his nose or mouth before touching the capsule.
Cubby
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Thank you for all your hard work AKWILKS. Is there a photo of James Lewis anywhere?
Also, I just looked at the survellience video survellience again. I hadn't noticed how long the beard is on the possible suspect in the Jewel photo's. The Jewel suspect appears to have a higher forhead than TK which could possibly be accounted for by how the hair is combed/groomed. While the survellience photo is pretty grainy having looked at countless possible matches between missing persons and the unidentified I think the nose between the POI and TK are spot on.
Also, I just looked at the survellience video survellience again. I hadn't noticed how long the beard is on the possible suspect in the Jewel photo's. The Jewel suspect appears to have a higher forhead than TK which could possibly be accounted for by how the hair is combed/groomed. While the survellience photo is pretty grainy having looked at countless possible matches between missing persons and the unidentified I think the nose between the POI and TK are spot on.
LadyL
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the pics of TK posted upthread - one appears to be a personal shapshot and one a driver's license photo to me
I wonder if there are any more recent pics of him, as in mugshots? would like to compare hairlines and I don't think they'd allow him a wig/hairpiece/ toupee or plugs in prison
also, in the photo of Paula buying Tylenol, the man watching her appears to me to be dressed in a white coat that looks suspiciously like a pharmacist's type white jacket (at least that's what they wear around here - just like a doctor's)
does anyone think that could've been part of his disguise? sorry if this has been covered already
I wonder if there are any more recent pics of him, as in mugshots? would like to compare hairlines and I don't think they'd allow him a wig/hairpiece/ toupee or plugs in prison
also, in the photo of Paula buying Tylenol, the man watching her appears to me to be dressed in a white coat that looks suspiciously like a pharmacist's type white jacket (at least that's what they wear around here - just like a doctor's)
does anyone think that could've been part of his disguise? sorry if this has been covered already
LadyL
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I saw some pics of Lewis too and I really can't tell
the nose would be a give-away if there was a clearer picture
the beard looks very much like it could be either
that receding hairline ... could be disguise or could be TK's natural look or could easily be JL's
the nose would be a give-away if there was a clearer picture
the beard looks very much like it could be either
that receding hairline ... could be disguise or could be TK's natural look or could easily be JL's
Credit to AweShucks for help on pictures and graphics.
Early Pics of James Lewis
I can no longer consider James Lewis a serious suspect in the 1982 Tylenol Murders because of lack of motive, facts showing he was in New York city at the time and the ties between the 1982 case and the 1986 cases when Lewis was in federal max security prison.
But others still suspect him, so here are the pic comps. I think Ted looks more like the pic, as someone mentioned, look at distance between eyes, the nose and bridge. Also Lewis has blond hair and normally wears glasses.
We must remember that Kaczynski used disguises when he purchased bomb parts. In one instance he records in his journal he wore several shirts to make himself look heavier, stuffed the shirt for the same reason, put cotton balls in his cheeks, wax in his nostrils to make them larger, gum under his lips and cut and dyed his hair and beard. The man looks very much like a moderately disguised Kaczynski, if Kaczynski also cut his hair back to give the appearance of a more receding hairline. Perhaps a better version of the photo can be obtained, or other photos examined to see if Kaczynski is in any of them.
A photo of the man and photographs of Kaczynski are attached. The only major difference is the man in the photo has a more receding hairline, which Kaczynski could easily have implemented as a disguise action, in effect making himself look older. There are many strong similarities between the two: Bearded white men of the same approximate age, height, weight, same basic facial structure, eyes, nose, flat hair on the sides, bigger hair on top, beard, even the gray spot at the bottom of the beard matches.
Early Pics of James Lewis
I can no longer consider James Lewis a serious suspect in the 1982 Tylenol Murders because of lack of motive, facts showing he was in New York city at the time and the ties between the 1982 case and the 1986 cases when Lewis was in federal max security prison.
But others still suspect him, so here are the pic comps. I think Ted looks more like the pic, as someone mentioned, look at distance between eyes, the nose and bridge. Also Lewis has blond hair and normally wears glasses.
We must remember that Kaczynski used disguises when he purchased bomb parts. In one instance he records in his journal he wore several shirts to make himself look heavier, stuffed the shirt for the same reason, put cotton balls in his cheeks, wax in his nostrils to make them larger, gum under his lips and cut and dyed his hair and beard. The man looks very much like a moderately disguised Kaczynski, if Kaczynski also cut his hair back to give the appearance of a more receding hairline. Perhaps a better version of the photo can be obtained, or other photos examined to see if Kaczynski is in any of them.
A photo of the man and photographs of Kaczynski are attached. The only major difference is the man in the photo has a more receding hairline, which Kaczynski could easily have implemented as a disguise action, in effect making himself look older. There are many strong similarities between the two: Bearded white men of the same approximate age, height, weight, same basic facial structure, eyes, nose, flat hair on the sides, bigger hair on top, beard, even the gray spot at the bottom of the beard matches.
Cubby
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Cotton in the cheeks, interesting. Because I'm staring at the cheeks in the survellience picture and noticing the cheeks look bigger/wider in both JL and TK.
Oddly, as I read the notes of all the the measures TK took to alter his appearance I found myself wondering if he used nair to create a receding hairline. If he shaved a portion of his head and then used nair carefully I can see how one could create more of a receding hairline.
Hard to tell on the coat. It does resemble a pharmacists coat. Hard to tell if the coat has a collar or not. It sort of resembles an older spring type of jacket I remember from the 80's? but can't place it.
Oddly, as I read the notes of all the the measures TK took to alter his appearance I found myself wondering if he used nair to create a receding hairline. If he shaved a portion of his head and then used nair carefully I can see how one could create more of a receding hairline.
Hard to tell on the coat. It does resemble a pharmacists coat. Hard to tell if the coat has a collar or not. It sort of resembles an older spring type of jacket I remember from the 80's? but can't place it.
marycarney
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The white coat reminds me of something a butcher wears at an old-school meat market maybe???