IL - Child, 9, charged in fire deaths of 5 people, Goodfield, 6 Apr 2019

[Lynetta]

Private investigator, Chicago doctor to work on Goodfield fatal fire case | Local Crime & Courts | pantagraph.com

[...]

Defense attorney Peter Dluski requested the approval of funds to retain a Chicago-area doctor who will determine the boy’s fitness and to retain a private investigator.

Judge Charles Feeney granted both motions but said he might not approve the doctor later, emphasizing the value of an objective and “meaningful expert.”

“I can’t put a lot of weight in somebody who has an agenda,” Feeney said, though he deferred to the attorney’s knowledge of the doctor’s expertise.

State’s Attorney Greg Minger did not object to either motion but noted the private investigator is Dave Frank, a retired police officer who works part-time with the Metamora Police Department in Woodford County.

[...]

He is charged with eight felony counts that include five counts of murder and three counts of arson.

[...]

The next hearing in the juvenile case was scheduled for 3:45 p.m. Feb. 27, granting enough time for the boy's fitness evaluation.

 

[prima.facie]

I just now heard about this story - from the DM of all places - that was posted yesterday.
Boy, 9, charged with murder will be evaluated by an expert ahead of trial | Daily Mail Online
My first initial reaction is that the young boy is being framed - solely based on the info in the article.
Going to go back and read all the posts to see what information was left out of the article.

 

[mickey2942]

I just now heard about this story - from the DM of all places - that was posted yesterday.
Boy, 9, charged with murder will be evaluated by an expert ahead of trial | Daily Mail Online
My first initial reaction is that the young boy is being framed - solely based on the info in the article.
Going to go back and read all the posts to see what information was left out of the article.

The best part of this article is that his mother no longer has custody of Kyle, something I thought long ago would definitely be in his favor.

 

[prima.facie]

I am only on post 370 something (as this story is new to me).
I am actually pretty upset - due to the videos mostly - as I am very sensitive to how children are treated and the environment they are raised in, due to abuse (and behaviors by my own mother) in my family growing up - and being a mom myself. Some things are triggers for me.

IMO, there were red flags, swirling and flashing red lights, spotlights, sirens and horns - mom's first interview.
The videos that were saved/uploaded (I have not watched them all) showed me a pretty smart and normal kid - despite his disgusting environment. I highly doubt the diagnosis's that mom claimed over Kyle - although, after all this crap....he will need long term therapy. IMO

There is still have a lot of reading for me to do in order to catch up, but at this point, I have very strong, yet sound opinions (I am not sure if they are even allowed to be posted at this point in the thread), so mostly they remain in my mind.

My heart breaks for Kyle and the innocent lost babies. Innocent of a crime or not, Kyle will forever have scars from his living environment, family dynamics and the tragedy that happened. I would never place any blame on him. Never. Ever.

That entire family, IMO, was/is a disaster - on all sides. Disaster of epic proportions. Doom, gloom, despair and hopelessness and a whole bunch of other negative adjectives. A recycled mess from generation to generation from both families (blood and step).

I am probably wasting my time posting this - as I am so far away from the end and maybe things have changed from the current path I am reading.... But sometimes typing things out is good for the mind.

Thank you to those who downloaded the videos which are now removed from the original account.

Back to reading.....

 

[prima.facie]

A man who drank alot of alcohol would be passed out by 11PM. And I find it unusual, that a man would walk out of a burning trailer, deposit his GF outside, and run back in for children. A more likely scenario would be that both parents searched for children in the trailer before exiting out the rear door.

But, that is my opinion. FWIW.

Still behind but.....
If it has not been said...I will say it. Non-PC opinion ahead:

There was NO WAY that out of shape, sloth of a man was able to carry, usher or drag that slothy woman out of the trailer - based on size and mass displacement alone. Did anyone see the video of her slothing on the couch completely out of her mind?
Would have taken her forever to just get up off the floor if she had been 'thrown down on to it' due to some blast. I mean, I saw the videos. Come on - physics!

I cannot even... with the phony baloney of some things being said by certain people (not here - in interviews).

JMveryhonestO

 

[prima.facie]

Ita.
If that's the case, then she really shouldn't have been giving a toddler a bath.
Sounds harsh, but it's too dangerous.
Imo.

Again, this is very non-PC - but if we are looking at this all logically.....
[I am going to be hated by so many, but ok] - Could mom and a 2 yr old toddler even fit in a bathtub together? I doubt they had a big huge spa tub in that tiny space.
Maybe the story was not true, maybe she worded it wrong. She is far from an intellect.

He supposedly received veteran’s disability benefits which are usually pretty decent.

BBM
I am just adding for whatever it may be worth to anyone re: Vet benefits.
My husband is a vet - he is rated at 60%. And while I will not get into all of his disabilities from serving (for almost 15yrs), he gets $1225 a month (rounded off a bit). Not sure what % he claimed but that may show what kind of $$ he would be bringing in.

 

[iluvmua]

She looks drugged out of her mind in his YouTube videos.

Jmo

 

[claudianunes]

I hope Kyle had a good Christmas with people that really care about him.

 

[NSS]

Just offering another perspective here. I understand the need for us to feel that this childs crimes are a result of abuse, as then it can't happen to us.

I raised 6 bio children and then added 2 bonus children 5 years ago. They are now 12 and 13. Despite my therapeutic parenting techniques, my 12 year old has made no progress except that he can 'mask' better. He has Reactive Attachment Disorder a result of a neglectful and chaotic home. This guy flooded my home twice, bringing down ceilings. he rages for hours and is cold and unemotional, he dissociates, he soils and smears, he is a year into intensive attachment therapy, but I don't hold out much hope for progress at this point. He is not interested in meaningful engagement.
He manipulated a school nurse into reporting to Childrens Services that he was being beaten by my youngest bio daughter. This was quickly proven unfounded since she is smaller than him and in a wheelchair due to cerebral palsy and about the kindest person I know.
He has set fires in my porch and garden - no lighters or matches here so I don't know where he gets them. He has beaten me and punched holes in walls and doors.

This is the MOST challenging thing I have ever had to face. His school call him an angel, and he is - whilst he is there. {except for pooping his pants there}. He is the only child that is under Social Care, and this is because they can fund his very specialised and very expensive therapy. In the US, other parents have had to sign their children over to the State to fund residential settings, some have been charged with abandonement for not picking their children up when Drs say he is not safe, but insurance refuses to pay as 'no progress is being made'.
There are exhausted parents out here, being abused by young children. where treatment isn't helping, love can't heal all wounds, and professionals have no treatment to suggest except, you are doing a great job, keep doing it, some of it may get through some day.
On the upside, the 13 year old has a bright future ahead, straight A's, a little awkward but catching up nicely. I keep doing what I do because I am this childs best hope...... please don't judge me if his pathway in life is unpalatable. This could be my child.

A last thought - psychopaths don't wake up that way at 18, there is often a chaos creating, stealing, fire obsessed, aggressive childhood before this. I love my littlest guy, but he is quite a dragon to live with.

 

[MyBelle]

I hope Kyle had a good Christmas with people that really care about him.

I think this crime happened because the boy wasn't being raised by people who really cared about him.

Illinois boy charged in fatal fire to be evaluated by expert

 

[claudianunes]

Just offering another perspective here. I understand the need for us to feel that this childs crimes are a result of abuse, as then it can't happen to us.

I raised 6 bio children and then added 2 bonus children 5 years ago. They are now 12 and 13. Despite my therapeutic parenting techniques, my 12 year old has made no progress except that he can 'mask' better. He has Reactive Attachment Disorder a result of a neglectful and chaotic home. This guy flooded my home twice, bringing down ceilings. he rages for hours and is cold and unemotional, he dissociates, he soils and smears, he is a year into intensive attachment therapy, but I don't hold out much hope for progress at this point. He is not interested in meaningful engagement.
He manipulated a school nurse into reporting to Childrens Services that he was being beaten by my youngest bio daughter. This was quickly proven unfounded since she is smaller than him and in a wheelchair due to cerebral palsy and about the kindest person I know.
He has set fires in my porch and garden - no lighters or matches here so I don't know where he gets them. He has beaten me and punched holes in walls and doors.

This is the MOST challenging thing I have ever had to face. His school call him an angel, and he is - whilst he is there. {except for pooping his pants there}. He is the only child that is under Social Care, and this is because they can fund his very specialised and very expensive therapy. In the US, other parents have had to sign their children over to the State to fund residential settings, some have been charged with abandonement for not picking their children up when Drs say he is not safe, but insurance refuses to pay as 'no progress is being made'.
There are exhausted parents out here, being abused by young children. where treatment isn't helping, love can't heal all wounds, and professionals have no treatment to suggest except, you are doing a great job, keep doing it, some of it may get through some day.
On the upside, the 13 year old has a bright future ahead, straight A's, a little awkward but catching up nicely. I keep doing what I do because I am this childs best hope...... please don't judge me if his pathway in life is unpalatable. This could be my child.

A last thought - psychopaths don't wake up that way at 18, there is often a chaos creating, stealing, fire obsessed, aggressive childhood before this. I love my littlest guy, but he is quite a dragon to live with.

Oh my God. That's a lot. Thank you for sharing, really. It's commendable what are you doing for these children, even if one of them is not making any progress [yet].
I believe several people in this thread feel empathy towards this child because we had the opportunity to see a glimpse of who he seems to be. A small, baby face, little kid who seems really sweet and longing for the attention of the adults in his [previous] home. He seems to be truly grieving the death of his baby cousin too. Also, it has become quite clear that his home environment was truly toxic in every sense of the word: a dirty house, a completely detatched mother, a stepfather that slaps babies, the presence of a elderly family member that certainly needed care and attention. It was a rough situation. The other thing that has been concerning some of us, including myself, is the fact that it has been mentioned that Kyle, at 8 years old, showed interest in lighters and fire and nobody seemed to have done anything about it. It's hard to not feel for a boy abused, neglected and ignored, that isn't able to understand what is going on when he goes to Court. It's heartbreaking and to be quite honest, revolting to me. And, of course, there are numerous cases of heavily abused children that grow up to do amazing things, and on the other side, children that grew up with all the love, attention and priveleges one could ever ask for still end up doing horrible, terrible things.
The big difference here, is that your children seem to have a loving, concerned, involved parent, and Kyle didn't. With all of that said, I wish you and your kids all the best there is in the World. May your boy find his path and get better. Hey, we can always hope for the best, right? All the best for you, sincerely.

 

[MyBelle]

Just offering another perspective here. I understand the need for us to feel that this childs crimes are a result of abuse, as then it can't happen to us.

I raised 6 bio children and then added 2 bonus children 5 years ago. They are now 12 and 13. Despite my therapeutic parenting techniques, my 12 year old has made no progress except that he can 'mask' better. He has Reactive Attachment Disorder a result of a neglectful and chaotic home. This guy flooded my home twice, bringing down ceilings. he rages for hours and is cold and unemotional, he dissociates, he soils and smears, he is a year into intensive attachment therapy, but I don't hold out much hope for progress at this point. He is not interested in meaningful engagement.
He manipulated a school nurse into reporting to Childrens Services that he was being beaten by my youngest bio daughter. This was quickly proven unfounded since she is smaller than him and in a wheelchair due to cerebral palsy and about the kindest person I know.
He has set fires in my porch and garden - no lighters or matches here so I don't know where he gets them. He has beaten me and punched holes in walls and doors.

This is the MOST challenging thing I have ever had to face. His school call him an angel, and he is - whilst he is there. {except for pooping his pants there}. He is the only child that is under Social Care, and this is because they can fund his very specialised and very expensive therapy. In the US, other parents have had to sign their children over to the State to fund residential settings, some have been charged with abandonement for not picking their children up when Drs say he is not safe, but insurance refuses to pay as 'no progress is being made'.
There are exhausted parents out here, being abused by young children. where treatment isn't helping, love can't heal all wounds, and professionals have no treatment to suggest except, you are doing a great job, keep doing it, some of it may get through some day.
On the upside, the 13 year old has a bright future ahead, straight A's, a little awkward but catching up nicely. I keep doing what I do because I am this childs best hope...... please don't judge me if his pathway in life is unpalatable. This could be my child.

A last thought - psychopaths don't wake up that way at 18, there is often a chaos creating, stealing, fire obsessed, aggressive childhood before this. I love my littlest guy, but he is quite a dragon to live with.

I'm sorry you have such a burden to bear and know parents do it out of love. In this case, I do believe the child is a victim of abuse inflicted by his mother and her boyfriend because his mother has lost her parental rights to him.

9-year-old boy charged with murder in Goodfield fire will be evaluated to see if he is fit to stand trial

 

[claudianunes]

I think this crime happened because the boy wasn't being raised by people who really cared about him.

Illinois boy charged in fatal fire to be evaluated by expert

I agree. From the YouTube videos, it seems like the kid was just there... Nobody looking twice at him.

 

[katydid23]

I am only on post 370 something (as this story is new to me).
I am actually pretty upset - due to the videos mostly - as I am very sensitive to how children are treated and the environment they are raised in, due to abuse (and behaviors by my own mother) in my family growing up - and being a mom myself. Some things are triggers for me.

IMO, there were red flags, swirling and flashing red lights, spotlights, sirens and horns - mom's first interview.
The videos that were saved/uploaded (I have not watched them all) showed me a pretty smart and normal kid - despite his disgusting environment. I highly doubt the diagnosis's that mom claimed over Kyle - although, after all this crap....he will need long term therapy. IMO

There is still have a lot of reading for me to do in order to catch up, but at this point, I have very strong, yet sound opinions (I am not sure if they are even allowed to be posted at this point in the thread), so mostly they remain in my mind.

My heart breaks for Kyle and the innocent lost babies. Innocent of a crime or not, Kyle will forever have scars from his living environment, family dynamics and the tragedy that happened. I would never place any blame on him. Never. Ever.

That entire family, IMO, was/is a disaster - on all sides. Disaster of epic proportions. Doom, gloom, despair and hopelessness and a whole bunch of other negative adjectives. A recycled mess from generation to generation from both families (blood and step).

I am probably wasting my time posting this - as I am so far away from the end and maybe things have changed from the current path I am reading.... But sometimes typing things out is good for the mind.

Thank you to those who downloaded the videos which are now removed from the original account.

Back to reading.....

I have followed closely from the start to now---and I think you are spot on---unfortunately.

I think mom's version of events is very problematic and inconsistent, if not downright deceitful.

And I agree that her long list of diagnosis that she drops on her son seems questionable.

I am pretty sure he did have some mental health issues, given the way he was being raised. But that list looks like it fits her better than that poor child.

 

[katydid23]

Still behind but.....
If it has not been said...I will say it. Non-PC opinion ahead:

There was NO WAY that out of shape, sloth of a man was able to carry, usher or drag that slothy woman out of the trailer - based on size and mass displacement alone. Did anyone see the video of her slothing on the couch completely out of her mind?
Would have taken her forever to just get up off the floor if she had been 'thrown down on to it' due to some blast. I mean, I saw the videos. Come on - physics!

I cannot even... with the phony baloney of some things being said by certain people (not here - in interviews).

JMveryhonestO

YEP, to all of the above.

 

[casesensitive]

That quote from Kyle's defense lawyer, specifically noting his interactions with him, and his judgement that he doubts if Kyle is fit to stand trial is notable. Does that mean that Kyle's lawyer thinks that he is mentally unfit at the present, or that he was mentally unfit when the fire happened?

His request to the judge for funds to have Kyle assessed by a doctor is obviously warranted. Does this suggest that Kyle has never been assessed by a specialist before he was charged with murder? That is hard to believe. The judge granted this request, but noted that he wouldn't be open to a hired specialist only working for the defense, which is understandable of course, but makes me question why the judge would even point out the obvious. The prosecution agreed to this request.

The defense request for funds to hire a detective was granted by the judge with no questioning. The judge has the police and prosecution reports that culminated in Kyle being charged with murder. The state prosecutor did not object to this request, which I find surprising. I've never heard of a defense attorney making this type of request. But I'm happy to have this case looked at with a new set of eyes.

The child's lawyer, Peter Dulksi, said that based on his interactions with him, as well as his age, he doubts whether he is fit to stand trial.
Boy, 9, charged with murder will be evaluated by an expert ahead of trial | Daily Mail Online

 

[mickey2942]

“Probation, given the age, is about the only outcome that could happen here,” he said.

The suspect will be appointed an attorney and will be tried before a judge. Under Illinois law, a suspect younger than 10 cannot be detained. And a minor is not given a public jury trial and not entitled to one unless the minor is charged as an adult.

If probation is the only possible outcome, why not negotiate a plea, make the kid attend therapy until age 18. I don't understand the point of a murder trial here...

 

[MsFacetious]

It's not at all uncommon for the defense to request funds for a private investigator. Just because the defendant doesn't have money doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to do an investigation. So that's perfectly normal. It's just probably not something that occurs as often in high profile cases or is mentioned in the media.

 

[NSS]

Back to regular posting now. IIRC Casey Anthony was granted an investigator too. Murder trials call for greater leeway in what is funded because it limits appellate issues later.

As for the child being fit to stand trial, he should not even be in the courtroom. We don't let them into family court whilst we discuss divorce, neglect or care proceedings and he will be further traumatised by hearing all of this. We are seeing his public 'mask'. others will see/hear a cute 2 year old and others will see an angry 9 year old.
For these children cause and effect thinking is not there, normal compassion or praise can send them into a rage {they don't feel worthy and it creates conflicts in their brain}.

Vital neural pathways are missing as a result of early neglect and abuse, but even non interaction can cause this too. {get off your phones Mums}. Some of them are so badly damaged that institutions are the only place they feel safe. The structure, boundaries and level of supervision required can be too much for a normal family.

These children need understanding, but the parents need a little less judgement. This is generational neglect, there were a lot of people in that small home, keeping it tidy would have been tricky, I am able to clean from 6am and my little dragon can destroy it in a single room to room rage.
The pets will have been babysitters and possibly the only genuine attachment that these children have known. Losing that pet would have sent this guy into a tailspin.

We need to break the cycle, investing in this family early on, even if it means financially, socially, with housing and mental health services would have possibly prevented this tragedy and the cost now of housing children outside the home and the intensive mental health input that they will need to even have hope. Sometimes the 'survival' patterns are too far ingrained and then we can also expect the cost of drug abuse, crime and incarceration plus the cost to society of that damage.

For now my little guys worst instincts are contained by close supervision, worked on in therapy and hopefully mitigated by my parenting. I fear that the day will come when I have to let him go and just hope that he will use the tools he has been given to feel safe in his own brain. They are often plagued by mental illness. No winners here. We must do better to support parents who are struggling, we must become a childs safe person, or we will continue to sit here in judgement of parents who were not as capable and innocent people will suffer.

 

[claudianunes]

That quote from Kyle's defense lawyer, specifically noting his interactions with him, and his judgement that he doubts if Kyle is fit to stand trial is notable. Does that mean that Kyle's lawyer thinks that he is mentally unfit at the present, or that he was mentally unfit when the fire happened?

His request to the judge for funds to have Kyle assessed by a doctor is obviously warranted. Does this suggest that Kyle has never been assessed by a specialist before he was charged with murder? That is hard to believe. The judge granted this request, but noted that he wouldn't be open to a hired specialist only working for the defense, which is understandable of course, but makes me question why the judge would even point out the obvious. The prosecution agreed to this request.

The defense request for funds to hire a detective was granted by the judge with no questioning. The judge has the police and prosecution reports that culminated in Kyle being charged with murder. The state prosecutor did not object to this request, which I find surprising. I've never heard of a defense attorney making this type of request. But I'm happy to have this case looked at with a new set of eyes.

The child's lawyer, Peter Dulksi, said that based on his interactions with him, as well as his age, he doubts whether he is fit to stand trial.
Boy, 9, charged with murder will be evaluated by an expert ahead of trial | Daily Mail Online

I think it's not just about his possible mental health issues, it's probably about his development, maturity level and ability to understand the court proceedings, which he doesn't seem to have yet. It has been reported that Kyle has been having a really hard time following and understanding what's going on when he was present in previous court dates.