Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #158

[TL4S]

JMO.

Walking along the road may have been a way for him to return to his vehicle without taking the trail system back covered in mud and blood.

His departure may have coincided with Libby’s father looking for the girls on the trails.

I hope the knowledge that he had been seen haunted him even though he escaped notice for too long.

JMO.

Yes, I believe L's father first called at 3:11, iirc. That's a whole 48 min before the muddy and bloody guy was seen on 300 rd. I think maybe the phone was on the south side of the creek (maybe close to where the DTH encounter was), or in the water with their clothes. Jmo.

 

[photographer4]

I'm having a hard time thinking he saved any of the clothing he wore. Why do that? He could have several blue jackets. If items were bloody and muddy why not just get rid of them especially after the video came out. He has had years. (Hate that!)

where was he gonna dispose of them that no one would find them?? Short of the burn pit…?

 

[CNYDarkStar]

Good post! And I agree he will most likely be found guilty but very sloppy police work.

Posting this with updated opinions as i feel it will help many members and visitors on this forum.

In my opinion RA is guilty of the murders and will be found guilty in a court of law.I believe he acted alone during the murders and was alone with the 2 victims at scene of the murders....that being said here are some thoughts

1) IMO RA went to LE first (Friendly conservation officer?) to let them know he was on the bridge but did not see the girls or anything suspicious.He did this because he knew the other 3 girls saw him leaving the area and would surely tell LE of his presence on the bridge that day. IMO the 3 girl witneses statement came AFTER RA made his "helpful info report" This is a KEY reason RA got away for so long.

His report went unnoticed for several different reasons. One being in the very early stages of the investigation the initial description of the suspect looked nothing like RA.Another is The " local friendly" LE he made his "helpfull tip" too never thought twice about it ,as his statement like several others on the bridge that day was originally OFFERED in good faith from concerned local citizens trying to help LE (RA went to them to help,they did not go looking for him). At the time his "tip" was given, LE probably had not gained access to the victims phones and that video yet.The "friendly" LE officer probably had no knowledge of the 40call bullit found as he was not "in the know" on that piece of information let aloine if RA owned a 40cal. By the time the video and alternate description came out,who knows how many tips and reports that same officer made.Would it have been nice if the officer made that connection back in 2017 ? yes ofcoarse...should we blame him for not making the connection? Absolutley not ..Add KK, into the mix and all the lies he brought to the investigation.the landowners lies,DN lies and the numerous SO in the area that were also suspects and you have a perfect storm for RA to miracuously fly under the radar...until...they revisit the ENTIRE CASE and EVERY REPORT made in the case in late 2022.

The report RA made was never looked at until recently by new investigators (Kathy Shank?) who found the old "tipster" report and then made the connection with bullit/gun ownership and/or the fact RA was on the bridge that day and mtched the description almost to a T ,as she possibly knew what RA looked like due to her being a customer of cvs or within an official capicity dealing with her child protective case and medications for minors ..or both. Other then the 1 report she was looking at ,there was no mention of RA anywhere in the entire investigation(AHA! MOMENT).IMO Once that connection was made everything else fell into place:the gun,dna,boot prints,blood...etc. They never looked at RA at all , let alone as a suspect until this newest connection was made. He got very lucky to get away with it for so long.I Would not put blame on LE but rather bad timing and back luck .


2) Docs state that Along with RA's 40cal sig they also took his clothes,jacket and BOOTS...I believe they matched boot prints from the scene to his boots .The dox state one eye witness stated RA looked bloody and MUDDY. Muddy means boot prints.

3) RA during his first "tipster statement" said he parked at the Farm Beauro building (actually the old cps building) I do not think this was a mistake on his part.This is a very small town ,everybody knows everybody and what buildings were what.he knew what the building was previously. IMO He did not want to utter the words "child protective services building" to LE ...either out of pure guilt or a connection to that building/agency he did not want to reveal or both.. This is possibly how Kathy Shank comes into the picture ?

3) LE states BOTH victims clothes were found a distance away from their bodies by a a water source. This would lead me to believe he had some sort of sexual contact with the victims and may have left DNA that has now been matched to him.
AS i stated in my earlier post I believe they have RA dead to rights guilty. They used the 40cal and eye witness statements that align with the time frames victim were at the bridge for probable cause to charge him. When it comes closer to trial I feel more substantial evidence against him will come out. IE boot prints,his dna on victims, victims dna on his clothes.

5) IMO RA returned to the bridge with his own daughter in early 2018 but after feb 14th and took the pic to set up an "im a good daddy " alibi if he was to need one in the future : "Well I go to that bridge all the time...I even go with my own daughter! Why do you think I tried to help yall in 2017" I noticed in the pic RAs wife posted to Facebook in 2018 that the leaves on the trees are missing , leading me to believe the photo was taken early 2018 So I did a search for news articles about Delphi murders from jan2018-april2018 and located and interesting video of a press conference at the bridge on the 1 year anniversary of the victims murders. Not only does the State Police exclude DN as a suspect he goes on to say the following:
SP Superintendent Carter said. “I came to plead and implore you to keep this out front and center.”
Carter went on to address why the Delphi case is so personal to him.

“It’s personal to me because those two young girls were everybody’s DAUGHTERS,” Carter said. “In this beautiful place that represents the very best of humanity, and look what happened.”

I believe RA saw this news conference, realized the heat was back on and took his daughter to the bridge to again make himself seem like a good local family man that visited the area often ,even with his own Daughter and back up his previous "tipster info he made to LE in 2017
Link to news conference :kktv.com/content/news/Nations-no-longer-a-major-concern-in-Delphi-murders-474116613.html


6)These dox do not contain ALL of the evidence against RA !!!!! They contain ENOUGH evidence to charge him !!!
Imo there is ALOT more evidence that has not been released yet. I.E. boot prints,his DNA on them, possibly their DNA on his belongings...and possible "trophy" he kepy

This Case is not hinged on 1 single unspent 40cal bullit and a descripton of a man in jeans and a hooded jacket


7)These decades long career LEO's and Sheriffs did not get on National live TV Press conference in tears to announce an arrest unless they had a MOUNTAIN of EVIDENCE against RA !!!

THEY GOT HIM !


P.S. This is post #777 in this enitre thread so you kind of have to listen a lil bit lol

This is a great summation and most certainly an accurate portrayal of the most likely scenario and unfolding of events.

 

[CNYDarkStar]

That video is well done and follows the PCA to the T.

Sure spells out what LE got from witnesses.

Agreed. I wish more of those youtube shows were more succinct. It was also a bit eerie.

 

[CNYDarkStar]

JMO.

Walking along the road may have been a way for him to return to his vehicle without taking the trail system back covered in mud and blood.

His departure may have coincided with Libby’s father looking for the girls on the trails.

I hope the knowledge that he had been seen haunted him even though he escaped notice for too long.

JMO.

Precisely. He wasn't going to go back the same way since he knew people were there.

 

[gritguy]

It's interesting the search warrant for RL, which has a lot of details about some things (hair and fiber found, redacted short description or word about the type of weapon), did not mention the recovered round or the mention of "gun" on the video. Certainly the strategy of holding certain things back has been in play since the beginning and of course there is still material evidence undisclosed. While the PCA does not implicate a 2nd person, LE seems clearly to believe that and perhaps there is some physical evidence toward that as yet undisclosed. I find it hard to believe a 2nd person was at the scene, but it's not out of the question perhaps.

 

[CNYDarkStar]

Seems as though many have forgotten or don't realize the PCA is an affidavit to have someone arrested and charged. It is not a list of all evidence and statements from everyone and anyone involved. The police and prosecutor have much more that will not be released until trial.

 

[photographer4]

So he was with the girls a long time and we know there was staging and signatures I think LE said.


So did he have props and if he did were they set up before hand?

I can’t remember reading if he had a bag on him but how exactly would you stage them?


mooooooooooooo

If I had tried to kidnap them and I failed? I’d stage it to look like an accident or something other than a murder. How? No idea. Maybe try to make it seem like the kids killed each other somehow? They had a fight and knocked each other out?

The scene didn’t look like a murder had just happened there. So I’m not sure why not or how not if they lost a lot of blood at the scene. But that’s what police have said.

But then police were fast to say they thought foul play too so maybe he didn’t do this?

His car wasn’t far away but no way he’d have got them there without being seen so surely that wasn’t the plan?

 

[girlhasnoname]

This is a random picture of a 2016 Black FF kind of parked like witnesses described seeing it at the CPS building.

 

[GA_Peach]

BBM

Technology in Ballistics Testing has come a long way and is in no way considered 'junk science', although it isn't as accurate as DNA. Of course there will always be 2 opposing experts to present their evidence at trial. It will be a matter of whom the jury believes to be the most logical and reliable.

I've attached a link to the latest NIST - National Institute of Standards and Technology, it's interesting reading.

<snipped> Two New Forensic Firearm Examination Standards Added to the OSAC Registry of Approved Standards
Forensic experts can often link a bullet or cartridge case to the gun that fired it based on microscopic marks left on the bullet as it exits the barrel, or on the cartridge case as it is ejected from the firearm. For instance, to test whether a bullet found at a crime scene was fired from a specific gun, experts test-fire that gun to produce a second bullet. They then compare the microscopic marks on the pair of bullets to see how similar they are.

Examiners usually compare the bullets under a split screen comparison microscope, rotating and moving them to see if the markings line up — a method that has been in use for more than 100 years. However, researchers have been developing new methods that use 3D surface scanning microscopes to produce 3D models, or virtual copies, of the bullets. Computer algorithms then compare the microscopic features of the two virtual bullets to measure how similar they are.

3D methods are not yet widely used in forensic labs. But for labs that wish to implement them, the new standards provide guidance. The new standards are:

• ANSI/ASB Standard 062, Standard for Topography Comparison Software for Toolmark Analysis
• ANSI/ASB Standard 063, Implementation of 3D Technologies in Forensic Firearm and Toolmark Comparison Laboratories

“These standards give labs guidance on purchasing and setting up a 3D system, validating it to ensure that it produces accurate results, and implementing it into their workflow,” said Erica Lawton, a firearms examiner at the Alabama Department of Forensic Sciences who, as the chair of OSAC’s Firearms and Toolmarks Subcommittee, helped guide the new standards through the approval process.

One of the benefits of a 3D system is that, after comparing the surface features of two bullets or cartridge cases, the algorithm generates a numerical score that describes how closely the two surfaces match. That match statistic expresses the amount of uncertainty in the analysis, and police investigators, jurors and others can use it when weighing the evidence. With the traditional method, an expert can only give a subjective opinion as to whether two bullets or cartridge cases were fired from the same gun. They cannot provide a match statistic.

MOO

This pertains to a bullet leaving through the barrel of a gun. In Abby and Libby's case, the bullet was unspent so it did not come out of the barrel. I would imagine that ballistics testing can produce very reliable results.

 

[krAL2007]

It's interesting the search warrant for RL, which has a lot of details about some things (hair and fiber found, redacted short description or word about the type of weapon), did not mention the recovered round or the mention of "gun" on the video. Certainly the strategy of holding certain things back has been in play since the beginning and of course there is still material evidence undisclosed. While the PCA does not implicate a 2nd person, LE seems clearly to believe that and perhaps there is some physical evidence toward that as yet undisclosed. I find it hard to believe a 2nd person was at the scene, but it's not out of the question perhaps.

I’m late to the proverbial party on this case, but i came here to say what you said. Why was there no mention of the unspent round in RL’s documents Or the girls saying “gun”. This is so strange, like they are throwing stuff to see what sticks. It’s going to give his defense ammunition, especially considering how hard they went after RL. The police are really looking bad on this one.

eta: moo and I’m sure I don’t have all of the facts available.

 

[LeBlack]

Since when is backing in an odd way to park? I feel like I’m missing something

At an abandoned building? where you can park any way you wish and not need to back in? You can do a pull through or complete circle with no other cars in the way

 

[photographer4]

But they clearly didn't ID him. Nothing in the PC says anyone ID'ed him. That's going to be a problem.

Is it just possible they don’t mention it in this doc? Maybe a photo lineup after they arrested him and before arrest was public?

 

[layer]

BBM

Technology in Ballistics Testing has come a long way and is in no way considered 'junk science', although it isn't as accurate as DNA. Of course there will always be 2 opposing experts to present their evidence at trial. It will be a matter of whom the jury believes to be the most logical and reliable.

I've attached a link to the latest NIST - National Institute of Standards and Technology, it's interesting reading.

<snipped> Two New Forensic Firearm Examination Standards Added to the OSAC Registry of Approved Standards
Forensic experts can often link a bullet or cartridge case to the gun that fired it based on microscopic marks left on the bullet as it exits the barrel, or on the cartridge case as it is ejected from the firearm. For instance, to test whether a bullet found at a crime scene was fired from a specific gun, experts test-fire that gun to produce a second bullet. They then compare the microscopic marks on the pair of bullets to see how similar they are.

Examiners usually compare the bullets under a split screen comparison microscope, rotating and moving them to see if the markings line up — a method that has been in use for more than 100 years. However, researchers have been developing new methods that use 3D surface scanning microscopes to produce 3D models, or virtual copies, of the bullets. Computer algorithms then compare the microscopic features of the two virtual bullets to measure how similar they are.

3D methods are not yet widely used in forensic labs. But for labs that wish to implement them, the new standards provide guidance. The new standards are:

• ANSI/ASB Standard 062, Standard for Topography Comparison Software for Toolmark Analysis
• ANSI/ASB Standard 063, Implementation of 3D Technologies in Forensic Firearm and Toolmark Comparison Laboratories

“These standards give labs guidance on purchasing and setting up a 3D system, validating it to ensure that it produces accurate results, and implementing it into their workflow,” said Erica Lawton, a firearms examiner at the Alabama Department of Forensic Sciences who, as the chair of OSAC’s Firearms and Toolmarks Subcommittee, helped guide the new standards through the approval process.

One of the benefits of a 3D system is that, after comparing the surface features of two bullets or cartridge cases, the algorithm generates a numerical score that describes how closely the two surfaces match. That match statistic expresses the amount of uncertainty in the analysis, and police investigators, jurors and others can use it when weighing the evidence. With the traditional method, an expert can only give a subjective opinion as to whether two bullets or cartridge cases were fired from the same gun. They cannot provide a match statistic.

MOO

Problem is, that says nothing about an unfired cartridge. To purport to match an unfired cartridge to any gun borders very much on junk science.

 

[Vaderman]

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

Submitted sworn and signed by an FBI agent.

Re-reading this, doesn't it seem like they had more concrete details for a search warrant on RL compared to the details they provided for an ARREST of RA?

 

[photographer4]

I’m late to the proverbial party on this case, but i came here to say what you said. Why was there no mention of the unspent round in RL’s documents Or the girls saying “gun”. This is so strange, like they are throwing stuff to see what sticks. It’s going to give his defense ammunition, especially considering how hard they went after RL. The police are really looking bad on this one.

They didn’t need the bullet for RL warrant. He was suspicious on his own with his alibi being made up and living at the property and a history of violence / criminal record. They did not want the bullet out there and I imagine this is why they wanted the PCA for this one sealed. That bullet is possibly a small item but huge part of the evidence. A signature maybe? A nod to what actuall happened there? I think the SOB placed the bullet where it was found and he knew they’d find it. For years he wondered if they had or not. Maybe he even went back to look for it himself thinking they missed it? That would be hot evidence - if they set up a trail cam at any point it showed him looking for it later when it had settled down? Yeah I read too many crime novels. I’ll see myself out.

 

[layer]

Just to be clear, since I haven't been following for months. They still haven't released Cause Of Death? The reason I ask is because if they were shot, then ballistics would pretty much seal the deal on RA.

 

[Spiritecho]

Why is everyone assuming he ran home and put his 'muddy and bloody' clothing in the wash? I imagine he took a 'drive' somewhere later that day or next and disposed of it.
Is it really believed he has the same blue jacket and blue jeans 5 years later?
Why the talk about boot prints found? Where is a link to that? or is it speculation?

What we are obtaining from the PC is that 'based on a tip' RA was looked at again. Right? If that is the case, how do you propose the 3 girls THEN could be brought in for a line up? Be shown some photos? At best there are 2 DIFFERENT descriptions of the man seen that day. I doubt he could have been picked as the man they saw. So, IMO, LE did not fail to get those girls in asap for identification, THEN.

I also am still stumped why everyone is so shocked, it was stated, repeatedly, BG lived there or was from there, he does not resemble either sketch, IMO, enough to be named BG, but what if that was the tip received and it got lost in the shuffle. We just don't know and this constant twisting the barest facts we have just creates chaos and rumor.
I'm also stumped by the thought that 'it's very clear' he had a Sig in his jacket that day, nope, it's not. At least to me, and nope I do not need a photo with something circled. Just sayin.

Much of this will just have to wait until more info is released or trial.

 

[girlhasnoname]

This pertains to a bullet leaving through the barrel of a gun. In Abby and Libby's case, the bullet was unspent so it did not come out of the barrel. I would imagine that ballistics testing can produce very reliable results.

There are Extractor marks and Ejector marks that can be identified on unspent shells.

Striated Action Marks- FirearmsID.com

 

[layer]

There are Extractor marks and Ejector marks that can be identified on unspent shells.

Striated Action Marks- FirearmsID.com

They are not definitive marks, unlike the striation on fired rounds and firing pin mark on spent casings. It's good enough for a Probable Cause Search Warrant, but very unlikely to even be used at trial.
IMHO