Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #159

[gritguy]

It feels very contrary to the Fifth Admendment, I’d think.

And also, I’d think that it could lead to a ‘try on the glove’ moment, as RA would be in control of how he spoke. (Reference, of course, to the OJ Simpson trial.)

On first blush it would seem but it can be considered non-testimonial. However, I wouldn’t try it in court either due to the OJ factor.

256. Voice Exemplars—Self-Incrimination

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[Boxer]

Why? She’s a judge, thus impartial.

Because she is impartial. The prosecution does not have the luxury of defending themselves point for point against attacks in the press by the defense.

 

[lji]

Here’s a good video of somebody walking the bridge back in 2016 to give people a POV of the beginning of the bridge right until the end for those trying to picture it. Very easy to see now (right at the end of the video) how isolated they would’ve been at the end of the bridge when they were told to go “down the hill”.
This link was first posted back in the first pages of the very first thread by @Gardenista so all credit to them and the person in the video.

Interestingly at around 3:56 we get the same kind of view of the bridge as the infamous footage of BG/RA, just zoomed out a bit.

 

[Soulmagent]

Four things emerge as to why he might've backed into parking by the (CPS) building vs a forward normal parking position.
1. Passersby, especially those driving, couldn't easily jot down rear-only license plate if suspicious (this mentioned most)
2. For those like myself who aren't good at recognizing cars, I'd be less likely to know the model of a car from looking at the front where only the Ford logo is present, than from the rear where it clearly says on the left 'Focus'

Test Drive: 2016 Ford Focus Titanium

2016 Ford Focus Hatchback Titanium Class: Compact Car Miles Driven: 202 Fuel Used: 8.6 gallons Real-world fuel economy: 23.5 mpg Driving mix: 85% city, 15% highway EPA-estimated fuel economy: 26/38/30 (city, highway, combined) Base price: $23,725 (not including $875 destination charge)...

blog.consumerguide.com

3. A few seconds could be saved if expecting to need a quick getaway by facing car toward road instead of having to put car in reverse, back out a bit, then shift into drive.
4. If he didn't get out of the car immediately after parking, which the Gray H video suggests some bit of delay between his car's arrival and when the walk would've started, perhaps he anticipated a return walk on that 300 road for say 10 minutes and wanted to get an idea of how much traffic (like 1 car or 2 cars every 10 minutes) he might expect to encounter, and how fast drivers might be going, etc on that walk back. Getting that visual feel for activity from inside the car would be easier to do facing forward in the driver's seat previewing than through the rear mirror or window.

I compare any of those above reasons however with the opposing mindset that his least chance of car being noticed would not have been this wide-open area at all - or if decided for whatever reason it needed to be this abandoned building that a different side of the building would surely have more out-of-view hidden from others, than just backing the car in??

He may of had it faced backwards because he planned to force at least one live child in there and ,it has to be backed in for that. Otherwise someone might see you sticking a kid in the back of the hatch. IMO.but maybe he didnt plan on taking 2 .

 

[Silver_produce0]

Re: backing the car in, if it meant he was facing south it meant he’d be looking toward the area where you could see who was coming over the freedom bridge or see cars passing to go toward the trailhead but maybe they wouldn’t see you.

 

[Dondarion]

That was later, sometime after 3. The parent was there looking for the girls. Abby, Libby, and BG had been in the woods for almost an hour. Don't have the timetable right in front of me, but Muddy Bloody Guy would be seen on the road in about another half hour.

Bad luck for RA that no one saw him leaving unmuddy and unbloody. That would give his defense a tremendous boost, but no. Bad luck. You would almost think there was only one short stocky guy out there in denims and a hoodie when the bad stuff happened.

No witness ever saw both him and the similarly dressed real killer. He and the real killer were very close to each other for the entire run-up to the crime. RA went on the High Bridge and used his superpowers to look at fish. No one saw two guys dressed the BG way. Even RA has apparently neglected to claim he noticed a guy about his own size and build wearing something like his own outfit in the area.

Let's say the defense establishes that cycling scratches on ammunition show some non-trivial percentage of false positive matches. Let's say 20 percent. I doubt if they can sell a higher figure.

So we are to believe he rolled craps yet again. Just one of those unlucky matches that seem unlikely but happen. Yeah. Another one. But of course the really hard part is believing that that bullet came to be there in the first place by innocent bad luck.

Incredibly unlucky. I'm inclined to say "unaccountably unlucky."

I don't disagree that RA is the guy.
I was simply pointing out that saying he was the only adult male that was on the trails that day is incorrect.

I'm pretty certain law enforcement has the right guy.

 

[Andreee]

Here’s a good video of somebody walking the bridge back in 2016 to give people a POV of the beginning of the bridge right until the end for those trying to picture it. Very easy to see now (right at the end of the video) how isolated they would’ve been at the end of the bridge when they were told to go “down the hill”.
This link was first posted back in the first pages of the very first thread by @Gardenista so all credit to them and the person in the video.

Interestingly at around 3:56 we get the same kind of view of the bridge as the infamous footage of BG/RA, just zoomed out a bit.

Interesting to see a video of the bridge that was filmed before the murders took place. The lively, cheery music and the whole peaceful vibe...to never be looked at the same again after that horrific day in 2017. I still would not want to walk across that high old bridge, and honestly would never want to take that walk alone out of complete sight to the other side, but I have never been comfortable walking on out of the way trails by myself. Guess it's from growing up in major cities, where I always watched my back. So awful for those two young teens. The trail will always be a tainted sad place to visit.

 

[ACG2x]

Here’s a good video of somebody walking the bridge back in 2016 to give people a POV of the beginning of the bridge right until the end for those trying to picture it. Very easy to see now (right at the end of the video) how isolated they would’ve been at the end of the bridge when they were told to go “down the hill”.
This link was first posted back in the first pages of the very first thread by @Gardenista so all credit to them and the person in the video.

Interestingly at around 3:56 we get the same kind of view of the bridge as the infamous footage of BG/RA, just zoomed out a bit.

Great visual - thank you.

So then is the idea that RA had a gun on him, likely showed it to the girls and/or made it known he was armed and walked with them to the opposite end of the bridge then told them "down the hill" which you see around 8:00 in the video? If so then would they have gone left or right? It appears there's a hill on both sides.

 

[Megnut]

Four things emerge as to why he might've backed into parking by the (CPS) building vs a forward normal parking position.
1. Passersby, especially those driving, couldn't easily jot down rear-only license plate if suspicious (this mentioned most)
2. For those like myself who aren't good at recognizing cars, I'd be less likely to know the model of a car from looking at the front where only the Ford logo is present, than from the rear where it clearly says on the left 'Focus'

Test Drive: 2016 Ford Focus Titanium

2016 Ford Focus Hatchback Titanium Class: Compact Car Miles Driven: 202 Fuel Used: 8.6 gallons Real-world fuel economy: 23.5 mpg Driving mix: 85% city, 15% highway EPA-estimated fuel economy: 26/38/30 (city, highway, combined) Base price: $23,725 (not including $875 destination charge)...

blog.consumerguide.com

3. A few seconds could be saved if expecting to need a quick getaway by facing car toward road instead of having to put car in reverse, back out a bit, then shift into drive.
4. If he didn't get out of the car immediately after parking, which the Gray H video suggests some bit of delay between his car's arrival and when the walk would've started, perhaps he anticipated a return walk on that 300 road for say 10 minutes and wanted to get an idea of how much traffic (like 1 car or 2 cars every 10 minutes) he might expect to encounter, and how fast drivers might be going, etc on that walk back. Getting that visual feel for activity from inside the car would be easier to do facing forward in the driver's seat previewing than through the rear mirror or window.

I compare any of those above reasons however with the opposing mindset that his least chance of car being noticed would not have been this wide-open area at all - or if decided for whatever reason it needed to be this abandoned building that a different side of the building would surely have more out-of-view hidden from others, than just backing the car in??

Perhaps the building was his destination. With his victim.

And he didn't plan to walk along the road?

JMO

 

[WildHuncher]

I don't disagree that RA is the guy.
I was simply pointing out that saying he was the only adult male that was on the trails that day is incorrect.

I'm pretty certain law enforcement has the right guy.

No prob. I didn't mean to say ALL day.

 

[ACG2x]

Reading through RA's attorney's press release I can only think of one thing. They are already starting their version of the Chewbacca Defense. We can't refute the hard evidence you've provided so we have to ask random 'questions' and mention his lack of criminal history to make the leap to reasonable doubt.

Nothing they stated even passes as factual evidence that could exonerate their client and they glossed over the bullet found at the scene by saying it's "premature to speculate or discuss". This is defense attorney code for "we can't challenge this so look over here at this other stuff so you ignore that fact".

 

[EOA]

To clear up something I read last night from Thread 158 I believe, which implied that a police force in nearby Jefferson, Indiana had the .40 Sig Sauer as its standard-issue weapon - and thus assumedly that unspent evidence found near L at the CS could conceivably have found its way to that spot either directly or indirectly via one of these other LE in the vicinity.
-- Jefferson, Indiana is a tiny unincorporated community of maybe 200 people 32 minutes south of Delphi. The community has no law enforcement presence itself, only a County Sheriff's office shared by other similar tiny towns in Clinton County. Jefferson has not even had its own post office since 1905 Jefferson, Indiana - Wikipedia
-- the link the poster provided took me to a 551-page document for the City of Jeffersonville (which I had trouble finding the state listed) but if it was Jeffersonville, Indiana that is a city of 50K people just north of the Kentucky state line approx 3 hours from Delphi

 

[buyerninety]

@Megnut
But killer parking by abandoned building risks any public member driving by on W 300 slowing to look, to stopping to enquire - very low chance of this happening, I grant you, but parking on former CPS, NO associated buildings, just a car - even lower chance of anyone scoping killers car out, just a car on an empty lot.
Plus, when killer got back to the car after the murders, no enquiring public member having a reason to try to delay killer & interrogate why killer parked in a vacant lot (flip them the bird & speed off from the vacant lot) , versus possibly some curious public member if parking by the abandoned buildings ( and thereby taking down his probably false number plate not matching that vehicle).

 

[TL4S]

He may of had it faced backwards because he planned to force at least one live child in there and ,it has to be backed in for that. Otherwise someone might see you sticking a kid in the back of the hatch. IMO.but maybe he didnt plan on taking 2 .

Unfortunately, I do not think the accused killer, RA, had any intentions of abducting anyone via his vehicle. There's simply no way back to the CPS lot without being visible somewhere en route. If abduction via his vehicle was the plan all along, I don't think he would have cornered the girls so far away from his vehicle, either. There was the cemetery and the south private drive, both less visible, both closer to the south end of the bridge, but apparently he didn't know about or chose those options for whatever he had planned. His parking spot, along with having weapons on his person, not to mention hanging around the bridge and cornering them at the end, is highly suggestive of criminal intent, IMO, and while he did, in fact, abduct them, I believe murder was his ultimate plan. JMO.

 

[Vpq]

Here’s a good video of somebody walking the bridge back in 2016 to give people a POV of the beginning of the bridge right until the end for those trying to picture it. Very easy to see now (right at the end of the video) how isolated they would’ve been at the end of the bridge when they were told to go “down the hill”.
This link was first posted back in the first pages of the very first thread by @Gardenista so all credit to them and the person in the video.

Interestingly at around 3:56 we get the same kind of view of the bridge as the infamous footage of BG/RA, just zoomed out a bit.

Two major observations, one, I hike all around BC and Algonquin and I am surpraised that the bridge was open to public. Very dangerous. Two, he had to have scoped the terrain out to know where to order the girls.

 

[mrjitty]

Guess I'm in the minority since I don't have a problem with hearing anything from the defense. Let sunlight shine on all actions & statements from all parties. Secrecy serves the perp more than the public. I'm against that.
MHOO

There is no secrecy. The prosecution should not be discussing the facts of the case in the media in the first place. That can jeopardise the right to fair trial.

And the Judge has had to do this to prevent the accused from putting his version in the media when he will likely not testify.

 

[Vpq]

Have we talked about where RA’s phone was pinging during the murder? He admits to checking stocks while walking on the trail, so we know he had it with him. Is his phone at the crime scene from 2:30-4 ish? Or was it somewhere else?

If that is true he accessed roaming data

 

[lji]

Great visual - thank you.

So then is the idea that RA had a gun on him, likely showed it to the girls and/or made it known he was armed and walked with them to the opposite end of the bridge then told them "down the hill" which you see around 8:00 in the video? If so then would they have gone left or right? It appears there's a hill on both sides.

The general consensus is that they would’ve gone left around the 8:00 mark of the video or maybe a little bit further along. If you look at my attached photo the yellow circle is where the 8:00 mark of the video is (give or take) and the red circle is the crime scene

 

[girlhasnoname]

‘Magic bullet’ also sounds very childish and unprofessional, to me.

MOO

Right in line with the non-official, no letterhead most ridiculous Press Release known to man. MOO

 

[photographer4]

That reconstruction video highlights the massive problem that is lurking for the defence in the police interview IMO. The PCA alludes to this trainwreck.

Trail walking woman sees a guy resembling Bridge Guy on the bridge from 50 feet, before turning back, and seeing the victims. It will be established at trial, IMO, that she must have seen Bridge guy. Keep in mind each evidential fact does not have to be established beyond reasonable doubt. Remember that Trail woman does not encounter RA on the path, nor does RA report seeing her. This is crucial.

The victims now proceed down the 'flight path' to Bridge Guy. Realistically no one else can be between them, as Trail Woman sweeps the path.

At the same time, RA, rather foolishly, admits to seeing the 3 girls. This puts him on the 'flight path" to be at the bridge, dressed like bridge guy, at approximately the time Trail Woman will see Bridge Guy.

So here are the obvious problems.

1. If RA retraced his steps from the Bridge, how can RA get off the victims "flight path" without seeing them?

2. Where can RA have been if Trail Woman did not see him, but saw the 'real killer'

3. If Trail Woman somehow saw RA and mixed him up with the real killer, where did RA go, in order for Bridge Guy to get on to the Bridge, and the victims to advance down the trail, without RA seeing any of them?

This is where Law Enforcement have tripped him up IMO, most likely by selectively revealing the witnesses info to wreck his story, after he already admits he went on the trail and walked back (reading between the lines IMO).

The defence version will need to be item 3 - that Trail Woman saw RA on the bridge (where else could he be). This is the only way for her to see him, but him not to see her. He must be on the bridge. But now he has to get off it before the victims get there, so real Bridge Guy can get there, appearing from behind the victims direction of travel.

Therefore, the victims will meet him on the trail before when he retraces his steps ----> he must see the victims, unless he somehow went off the trail, or they did.

Admitting to seeing the 3 girls back in 2017 is fatal, because it puts him on the Bridge for Trail woman to see. But she also must have seen Bridge Guy - proving RA is Bridge Guy.

The only way out of this is fanciful stories about how the victims somehow didn't go directly to the bridge, allow RA a moment to slip past.

But my guess is RA has flubbed the interview when confronted with these problems. They will have encouraged him to commit to a version, before selectively revealing their cards, and inviting him to elaborate.

In the PCA, they just say there is no way for him to get out other than as muddy/bloody guy - but the evidential problem is going to be how he evolved his story of getting out.

This simple point form explanation is the best I've seen to date! Well done! It seems his goose is pretty cooked!