IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168

[pageantmom]

R

yes , but it has been a popular assumption on this thread that should not be made...it is not factual and making up excuses for why RA murdered them is pure speculation and unfair to the victims. One example, a man murders his wife..no one was there but all the neighbors say she probably smarted off to him. I don't think anyone should put words in the mouths of the victims. continuously adding this (untrue and unknown) tidbit eventually makes it become part of the story. That is the danger...it's untrue and has no basis in fact. it is total fiction. mOO

But you said they *didn’t* say anything to him. None of us could possibly know that.
I’m just saying it makes no difference if they did or not. That’s not why he murdered them, regardless.

To act as if they couldn’t possibly have said anything to him- or to act as if it’s somehow victim blaming- is to say that he would have some justification here, and he does not. It makes zero difference if they said anything or not, because regardless it’s no excuse for his choice to murder.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Hoping this might be dealt with tomorrow -

Subpoena for Allen’s health records​

“Also before the court is a request from Allen’s defense team to deny the prosecution access to their client’s medical and mental health records.

Last month, Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland subpoenaed Allen’s health records from his time in captivity at Westville Correctional Facility, where Allen has been held since Nov. 3, 2022.

Allen’s attorneys characterized the subpoenas as “unreasonable and oppressive.” They also expressed doubts that the records would “lead to the discovery of admissible evidence.”


Background refresher -

Richard Allen confessed to killing Indiana girls as investigators say "sharp object" used in murders, documents reveal

Richard Allen confessed multiple times to killing Abigail Williams and Liberty German in phone calls to his wife and mother while in prison, according to court documents.

www.cbsnews.com

“Investigators had the phone call transcribed and the transcription confirms that Richard Allen admits that he committed the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German," reads a motion filed April 20 by Carroll County prosecutor Nicholas McLeland. "He admits several times within the phone call that he committed the offenses as charged. His wife, Kathy Allen, ends the phone call abruptly."

Prosecutors also said that Allen also confessed to his mother during a phone call from jail, CBS affiliate WTTV reported.

Allen "has admitted that he committed the offenses that he is charged with no less than 5 times while talking to his wife and his mother on the public jail phones available at the Indiana Department of Corrections," according to a state filing regarding Allen's mental health records.”

I hope so, as I asked yesterday, if the Defense is going to use RA's mental health as part of the reasoning behind his transfer, would that open the door to his medical evals from Westville to the Prosecution? I think it might.

Maybe @gitana1 could answer that if she pops in.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Not sure. Thought they arrived as the bodies found and were sent away.

Now you've got me going down the rabbit hole again because it was such a big deal to us back then. Come get me if you don't hear back in a couple of days. LOL

 

[Emma Peel]

Now you've got me going down the rabbit hole again because it was such a big deal to us back then. Come get me if you don't hear back in a couple of days. LOL

well then, thank you for taking one for the team, as they say.

see if they were search dogs or cadaver dogs, while you're down there.

give my love to the rabbits.

(They weren't prepared to come across such a crime scene. when they did, they could have/should have crime-taped it off, closed the park, stood guard, waited for FBI response team, and wth was a park officer doing interviewing witnesses?) IMO

 

[SkyBoomer]

Agreed, but I personally find the manner in which he speaks the posters on his chats rude and obnoxious. He calls them idiots and worse.

However, he does do some good work with maps, and reenactments IMO.

He is beyond obnoxious. I stopped watching any of his content for that reason.

I do agree with the rest of your post, tho.

 

[Boxer]

Now you've got me going down the rabbit hole again because it was such a big deal to us back then. Come get me if you don't hear back in a couple of days. LOL

I tried to find the original material couldnt. Leazenby apologized, cant find that either.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I tried to find the original material couldnt. Leazenby apologized, cant find that either.

I'm nothing if not determined. Yes they had blood hound unit coming in from Missouri on the way, but when the girls were found at 12:14 pm the next day, they were turned back.

Link to the Down the Hill Part 2 At the 40:00 min mark Toby L says he made a mistake here btw

MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

Sheriff Tobe Leazenby responded to Timmons' claims, saying volunteers did search through the night on the first day, and that tracking dogs were on the way when the girls' bodies were found.

3 Years After Murders of Delphi Teens, One of Their Mothers Says Police Are Taking Too Long

www.clickondetroit.com

 

[TL4S]

Dbm

 

[girlhasnoname]

well then, thank you for taking one for the team, as they say.

see if they were search dogs or cadaver dogs, while you're down there.

give my love to the rabbits.

(They weren't prepared to come across such a crime scene. when they did, they could have/should have crime-taped it off, closed the park, stood guard, waited for FBI response team, and wth was a park officer doing interviewing witnesses?) IMO

I agree, I think originally they thought the girls might have just wandered off to a friends or something, but by nightfall (friends and family, neighbors were still searching the woods) and the next day when they were found at noon, they should have called in ISP and the FBI immediately and locked it down, especially knowing now what the crime scene looked like.

Why the Conservation Officer took RA's statement is curious to me too. Especially since he claimed he was at the trails that day at that time. HUGE RED FLAG Remember though, in his first interview RA didn't admit to being ON the bridge. Still no excuse not to investigate him 99 ways to Sunday IMO.

 

[Emma Peel]

I'm nothing if not determined. Yes they had blood hound unit coming in from Missouri on the way, but when the girls were found at 12:14 pm the next day, they were turned back.

Link to the Down the Hill Part 2 At the 40:00 min mark Toby L says he made a mistake here btw

MOO

ah! thank you very much!

Would love to know - What was it, specifically, that made Toby L realize that blood hounds could have made a difference for this case?

 

[MistyWaters]

I hope so, as I asked yesterday, if the Defense is going to use RA's mental health as part of the reasoning behind his transfer, would that open the door to his medical evals from Westville to the Prosecution? I think it might.

Maybe @gitana1 could answer that if she pops in.

The judge already denied the transfer back in July but I’m not not sure if the evil Odinist guards represent another request or if that was just another puff of smoke. But back he wasn’t moved because of his mental health and at the same time the defence filed the motion refusing to provide prosecution with the mental health files in question. That motion is still outstanding. Considering the confessions, not too difficult to figure why the defence doesn’t want the prosecution to access the reports especially if they indicate no significant mental health concerns.

Judge: Richard Allen to stay at Westville

DELPHI — Richard Allen, a Carroll County man accused in the deaths of Delphi teenagers Libby German and Abby Williams, will now stay at the Westville Correctional Facility as he

www.kokomotribune.com

“But in Wednesday’s ruling, Gull said the evidence presented at the June hearing “did not support many of the allegations advanced by defense counsel,” according to court records.

Per Gull, Allen appeared to be “treated more favorably than other inmates housed at the Westville Correctional Facility,” court documents indicated.

Gull’s order added that the Indiana Department of Correction has provided, and will continue to provide, Allen with the necessary medical services, including any mental health services….”

 

[Emma Peel]

Multiple issues facing court ahead of October hearings in high-profile Delphi murder case

 

[girlhasnoname]

ah! thank you very much!

Would love to know - What was it, specifically, that made Toby L realize that blood hounds could have made a difference for this case?

I would hope he would have been smart enough to think the bloodhounds would have tracked the path the killer took leaving the CS.

 

[sunshineray]

I hope so, as I asked yesterday, if the Defense is going to use RA's mental health as part of the reasoning behind his transfer, would that open the door to his medical evals from Westville to the Prosecution? I think it might.

Maybe @gitana1 could answer that if she pops in.

Oh I think they will use it for the reason behind his confessions too. Does the prosecution have the right to have medical, mind and body, evaluations done?

 

[girlhasnoname]

The judge already denied the transfer back in July but I’m not not sure if the evil Odinist guards represent another request or if that was just another puff of smoke. But back he wasn’t moved because of his mental health and at the same time the defence filed the motion refusing to provide prosecution with the mental health files in question. That motion is still outstanding. Considering the confessions, not too difficult to figure why the defence doesn’t want the prosecution to access the reports especially if they indicate no significant mental health concerns.

Judge: Richard Allen to stay at Westville

DELPHI — Richard Allen, a Carroll County man accused in the deaths of Delphi teenagers Libby German and Abby Williams, will now stay at the Westville Correctional Facility as he

www.kokomotribune.com

“But in Wednesday’s ruling, Gull said the evidence presented at the June hearing “did not support many of the allegations advanced by defense counsel,” according to court records.

Per Gull, Allen appeared to be “treated more favorably than other inmates housed at the Westville Correctional Facility,” court documents indicated.

Gull’s order added that the Indiana Department of Correction has provided, and will continue to provide, Allen with the necessary medical services, including any mental health services….”

Yes, but they're using 'severe mental duress' to try and suppress the confessions. Just because the Judge denied them in the initial standard request (not surprising) doesn't mean she won't revisit the issue if the Defense is using this as fact of part of the Franks Motion and another transfer motion.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Oh I think they will use it for the reason behind his confessions too. Does the prosecution have the right to have medical, mind and body, evaluations done?

The ones done at Westville I would think they would if they are stating it as fact of their Motion.

MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

ah! thank you very much!

Would love to know - What was it, specifically, that made Toby L realize that blood hounds could have made a difference for this case?

My memory takes me to the early days and prior to the discovery of the bodies, nobody knew for sure where the missing girls were. People were searching in the town of Delphi, plus the full Delphi historic trail system which is 10 miles long, as well as down rural roads on the chance the girls had walked to one of their homes and even cross country in case they took a short cut and got lost. So blood hounds might’ve been successful in tracking them had they not been found.

 

[girlhasnoname]

My memory takes me to the early days and prior to the discovery of the bodies, nobody knew for sure where the missing girls were. People were searching in the town of Delphi, plus the full Delphi historic trail system which is 10 miles long, as well as down rural roads on the chance the girls had walked to one of their homes and even cross country in case they took a short cut and got lost. So blood hounds might’ve been successful in tracking them had they not been found.

I have to say this was one of the major screwups by TL. If that scene had been contained right away and the dogs been allowed to track a scent through those woods, we might have known the exact path the murderer(s) had taken.

I have to admit a fault where I find it LE/State or the Defense.

TL said he made a mistake and I have to agree here.

The other big one being the first confession by RA to the Conservation Officer about being at the trails, and that lead not followed up for 5 years.

The sketch is a 50/50 for me because if you overlay both photos as I've seen done on other sites, they look similar to me. So maybe if he had his hoodie on in the video and pulled it down and was seen by the 2nd witness, I can kind of see where that might be possible.

MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes, but they're using 'severe mental duress' to try and suppress the confessions. Just because the Judge denied them in the initial standard request (not surprising) doesn't mean she won't revisit the issue if the Defense is using this as fact of part of the Franks Motion and another transfer motion.

JMO

The mental health reports from Westville will be directly relevant to any attempt by the defence to suppress RAs confessions so I’d be quite surprised if the Judge doesn’t force the defence to turn them over so the matter can eventually be settled.

As for transferring RA to a county jail, aside from the fact the Judge already denied the move IIRC it was noted Westville is the only facility able to provide transportation back and forth to the courthouse so the Judge might not even revisit the existing arrangements, even considering 2 Odinist guards who‘ve already claimed they’re not.

The purpose of the Frank’s Motion focuses on the important question of the legality of the SW, regardless of the other 90% or so of soup to nuts contained in the 136 page memo that have no bearing on the topic.

A lot of important matters to deal with tomorrow, as well as the leak.