IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #169

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.
The Sheriff's office gave a press conference on 4/22/19 and we have some solid information. Please take a look below

HERE IS THE NEW SKETCH FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE ON 4/22/19

HERE IS THE NEW AUDIO. IT'S-A BIT LONGER THAN THE FIRST

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

LATEST PRESS CONFERENCE 4/22/19

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

video of press conference from 2017 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

Let's do this. Let's commit to getting this killer's picture and voice out there any possible way we can.

Pictures of Abby and Libby

Link to post with all Threads #1-98 (Courtesy of margarita25)

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Link to Media Maps & Timelines *No Discussion*
Link to Media Maps & Timelines #2 *No Discussion*

IMAGE Discussion Thread

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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Sillybilly]

A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Mod Note:
For general JBC II discussions please use his thread. In Abby & Libby’s thread, JBC II should only be discussed in the context of a possible connection to Abby & Libby’s case.
Thanks Everyone!

JBC II Thread:
IN - James Chadwell II, 42, arrested after girl 9, found in his home, Lafayette, 19 Apr 2021 #3

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[MadMcGoo]

MOD NOTE:

There has been a major cleanup on this thread tonight due to numerous TOS violations. Here are the RULES we all agreed to upon joining this site.

We have a thread dedicated to KAK HERE. If you have an update specific to any of his current charges, pending charges or news, it is to be posted on that thread. For example, dismissals, court appearances, etc.

This is an example of an article and subject matter that may be brought up for discussion on this thread. This pertains to KAK and Abby’s and Libby’s cases. Although sources such as this are approved, you personally have the right to decide how much credibility you give to them. Nevertheless, they remain approved sources here on Websleuths.

Regardless of what is posted in ANY approved source, RA’s family (to include photos) are completely off limits as of this post. They are victims. PERIOD.

If you’re going to reference or discuss a topic (even if it’s been brought up before), a link to an approved source must be provided. Otherwise, don’t mention it.

Decisions made by officials may not sit well with us, but they’re most often made for a reason.

And lastly, STAY ON TOPIC. Please and THANK YOU!

- Mad

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

 

[MadMcGoo]

MOD NOTE:

If your post begins with any of the following, IT IS LIKELY AT RISK OF BEING REMOVED, along with any of its replies. Please take the time to find an approved source link to accompany the information you post.

“I thought I read somewhere…”

“I seem to remember hearing…”

“I’m not sure if I can bring this up, but…”

“I can’t remember where I heard this…”

OR

“This is just a rumor…”

Thanks,
Mad

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'd bet the Defense weren't hoping for cameras in the courtroom after their 10 am meeting. There has to be something tangible, legitimate and provable to substantiate a dismissal/withdrawl of Defense Counsel at this late stage. It just isn't done willy nilly.

Or who knows, maybe the Judge laid down sanctions and the Defense were not willing to admit or accept them and they recused themselves in protest. The Judge did say something had developed outside of her control when she addressed the gallery.

Either way the Defense has been caught in at least 3 serious unethical maneuvers and I have lost all faith in their ability to adequately defend Rick, even if they had a special bond. As much as I dislike RA and believe him to be guilty, he is entitled to a fair and vigorous defense. I don't think this less than Dynamic Duo were doing him any favors. I honestly believe he'll be better represented with new Counsel.

MOO

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

Re: What laws were broken from last thread

The MS podcasters were guests on The Prosectors podcast the evening of the case.

They stated the breach went beyond the CS photos. The photos were the most incendiary for obvious reasons.

The MS podcasters talked about receiving text and FB messages and posts that described defense strategy and with whom / when defense attorneys were meeting. This “inside info” was described as being shared over time and not something someone could glean from a glimpse at carelessly stored crime scene photos.

IMO only AB withdrew because there was going to be much more that came out about the breach and it went way beyond what was described in the motion filed that morning. He may not have known what the witnesses were prepared to testify to until shortly before the hearing, and/or he may not have realized the extent of the damage.

MOO.

 

[raja]

Re: What laws were broken from last thread

The MS podcasters were guests on The Prosectors podcast the evening of the case.

They stated the breach went beyond the CS photos. The photos were the most incendiary for obvious reasons.

The MS podcasters talked about receiving text and FB messages and posts that described defense strategy and with whom / when defense attorneys were meeting. This “inside info” was described as being shared over time and not something someone could glean from a glimpse at carelessly stored crime scene photos.

IMO only AB withdrew because there was going to be much more that came out about the breach and it went way beyond what was described in the motion filed that morning. He may not have known what the witnesses were prepared to testify to until shortly before the hearing, and/or he may not have realized the extent of the damage.

MOO.

I think you are correct that the defense did not know the full scope of what was involved in the leak until the meeting in chambers that morning. It became clear they could not provide RA with adequate representation following what they learned. JMHO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think you are correct that the defense did not know the full scope of what was involved in the leak until the meeting in chambers that morning. It became clear they could not provide RA with adequate representation following what they learned. JMHO

They knew enough to hire their own attorney to argue over not being removed from the case though. That 5 page letter from AB's attorney was already prepared and admitted into the record.

I don't think they knew the full scope of the ramifications they were going to face.

MOO

 

[NeverPersonal]

I think you are correct that the defense did not know the full scope of what was involved in the leak until the meeting in chambers that morning. It became clear they could not provide RA with adequate representation following what they learned. JMHO

Forgive me for my dumb question - but in your opinion, what aspects of representing RA would be most affected by them if somehow they stayed? Just want to make sure I am understanding this from all angles.

 

[katydid23]

Forgive me for my dumb question - but in your opinion, what aspects of representing RA would be most affected by them if somehow they stayed? Just want to make sure I am understanding this from all angles.

For one thing, the presiding judge was very angry with them and probably had lost fAith in their credibility.

 

[Emma Peel]

Forgive me for my dumb question - but in your opinion, what aspects of representing RA would be most affected by them if somehow they stayed? Just want to make sure I am understanding this from all angles.

IMO, Old Defense Baldwin may have a conflict of interest as a subject of LE investigation of Leaks in RA's case.

Shock aside, Baldwin's withdrawal was the right thing to do. And from RA's perspective, the better outcome (assuming RA can adjust to his new life in prison).

A few months before trial ... RA gets a change of counsel with fresh eyes.
Two sets of expert counsel ... for the price of one!
The downside? More time wasting away in prison.

 

[Bergmann]

Forgive me for my dumb question - but in your opinion, what aspects of representing RA would be most affected by them if somehow they stayed? Just want to make sure I am understanding this from all angles.

Conflict with potential proceedings against AB is one, and the other is significant damage to their credibility to argue the Franks Hearing effectively.

There’s significant upside all round IMO (except RAs prison time and the delay to justice of course ) if you’re willing to accept that a better more methodical and professional D will lead to more robust justice whether RA is found guilty or innocent. If he’s innocent they’ve done their job, if he’s guilty then the conviction will be more secure.

 

[Bergmann]

At some point hopefully the sideshow of the former D will leave town and focus on the material evidence at hand will return.

 

[Bergmann]

BTW anyone else see a glaring conflict of interest in the same LE who are being litigated against for misconduct with regard to the SW, are now investigating the D attorneys for criminal actions in same case...?

Is this how law works in Indiana?

 

[FrostedGlass]

BTW anyone else see a glaring conflict of interest in the same LE who are being litigated against for misconduct with regard to the SW, are now investigating the D attorneys for criminal actions in same case...?

Is this how law works in Indiana?

I live in IN.

Yes.
Yes, sometimes

 

[girlhasnoname]

BTW anyone else see a glaring conflict of interest in the same LE who are being litigated against for misconduct with regard to the SW, are now investigating the D attorneys for criminal actions in same case...?

Is this how law works in Indiana?

Who says LE is being 'litigated' and by whom? The Defense accused them of many things, but that was their interpretation of depositions and/or transcripts. I haven't seen in MSM anywhere that they are being litigated against.

MOO

 

[Bergmann]

Who says LE is being 'litigated' and by whom? The Defense accused them of many things, but that was their interpretation of depositions and/or transcripts. I haven't seen in MSM anywhere that they are being litigated against.

MOO

So the word litigated is the focus and not the conflict of interest? Interesting.

I don't want to argue a point about the meaning of a word (after the known vs unknown debate) so lets just say LE were named in the memo and if a Franks hearings is granted/ pursued by new D, then there will be an allegation against that LE to be ruled on in court.

But back to the point please - is it appropriate that LE who have misconduct allegations by D being pursued against them, then get to investigate D for criminal misconduct?

 

[MistyWaters]

So the word litigated is the focus and not the conflict of interest? Interesting.

I don't want to argue a point about the meaning of a word (after the known vs unknown debate) so lets just say LE were named in the memo and if a Franks hearings is granted/ pursued by new D, then there will be an allegation against that LE to be ruled on in court.

But back to the point please - is it appropriate that LE who have misconduct allegations by D being pursued against them, then get to investigate D for criminal misconduct?

My understanding is it is Indiana State Police investigating the link. I recall Sgt Holeman mentioned on the MS podcast, and both him and DC attended the hearing. The leak being investigated did not occur in Carroll County.