IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #28

[michiganmod]

And the hold up is they need the DNA results per that news link. They have samples from people they've interviewed and samples supposedly from the crime scene and just need the DNA test results to connect everything.---> Investigators are anxiously awaiting full DNA test results being compiled by FBI forensic analysts. <-----

Investigators say they&#8217;ve possibly met the killer or killers, or may have the clue that will wrap up the case. They just don&#8217;t know it yet.

&#8220;I think there&#8217;s an excellent chance that in these tips, somebody has named the right person,&#8221; said Ives of the more than 13,000 submissions that have come in to investigators. &#8220;When you ask me, &#8216;Is it possible some police officer has talked to him?&#8217; I think it&#8217;s extremely likely that&#8217;s happened.

&#8220;I think that&#8217;s possible, yes.&#8221;

From a command center on the town square in Delphi, authorities have served approximately 70 subpoenas and a couple search warrants approved by Ives in pursuit of the man who abducted and murdered the girls near the Monon High Bridge Trail east of town on February 13.

http://fox59.com/2017/03/14/prosecu...r-received-crucial-tip-due-to-scope-of-probe/

MOO

 

[bflocket]

lI'm trying to reply to something on the last thread, but it's closed...

Quote Originally Posted by whiskers View Post
Can someone please let me know how you would be taken into custody because of a DUI violation. Obviously I understand you could be picked up for DUI again and that would violate the terms.

However, if someone spotted you out at a restaurant having a beer or a glass of wine, is that a violation?

I'm sure it may differ for each state, but as an umbrella statement are DUI violations large or can they be small as well? Such as an off-duty officer seeing you purchase beer at a grocery store.

It could be anything like that. Also, those on probation waive their 4th amendment rights so a probation officer can show up at your home at any time of the day or night and search without a warrant. If they were to find alcohol in the house or even empty alcohol containers, no matter who that alcohol belonged to, that person can be violated and taken in.

I know that it is considered a violation if anything (alcohol/pot/coke) shows up on a court ordered urine test. Or if you don't show up to take such a screen.

I had a DUI (in KY, not sure if IN rules are any different) about a decade ago and had to do all of that testing stuff. It wasn't as simple as it sounds. I had to find a ride to the place where the tests were done (about 50-miles away) within a couple hour's notice. That's hard to do with no license and no car and a job. Plus, you'd have to know someone who had no other obligations so that they could drive you there.

Also, I suspect that you'd violate probation for getting any sort of charges against you (especially any kind of driving violations, since your license would be suspended). Thankfully, getting to the test and passing it is all that I had to do. So I'm just assuming that any kind of infraction would be a violation.

 

[kate2931]

Thank you liltexans &#128077;&#9786;&#65039;

 

[watcher9]

The FBI has since released a list of behavioral clues that could help lead investigators to the killer or killers. The agency is asking the public to be on the lookout for anyone who has exhibited the following signs:

Changes in their daily routines, including modified sleep patterns Increased use of alcohol or drugs
Cleaned or disposed of clothing and / or shoes that might have been worn on Feb. 13
Missed work or other engagements
Anxiety, nervousness or irritability
Excessive attention to the investigation, media coverage or lengthy discussions related to the murders

"On Monday, February 13, the individual or individuals responsible for these crimes may have been absent from work, missed or canceled appointment or social engagements, or been unavailable or unresponsive during the afternoon period," the FBI explained in a news release. "They may have been a 'no-show' or offered a plausible excuse for their absence or tardiness, such as illness, death in the family, car trouble, etc."

http://www.wdrb.com/story/34813623/changes-planned-for-delphi-historic-trails-after-teen-murders

This description seems like the guy would have guilt feelings, taking them out on drugs, drink, or anger, just knowing he committed this crime.

It seems to me that it would be just the opposite.

He would feel thrilled that he was able to do it and get away with it, being excited when recalling each minute as it went down, being giddy that he knew the big horrible secret that no one else knew and being full of himself with exuberance that he was able to carry out his dream plan.

He may be a little angry because his picture and voice were taken and seem to be a little paranoid with them circulating around, but as time passes and he has not been found, this will pass and he start having those evil thoughts of doing it again.

 

[gregjrichards]

Hi all. New member here from the UK that has been lurking on WS ever since I started reading up on LISK. When the news of the girls murders broke I was heartbroken and although thousands of miles away, having an adolescent daughter myself who is testing the boundaries of freedom (and thus testing myself !) it has really hit me hard and I've spent hours and hours reading the threads, reading the media and checking back every day hoping for a 'we've got him!' or something just something tangible.

Sadly, all I have to offer are my own opinions and It's very obvious to a fresh set of eyes looking into the threads that opinions differ massively. To me BG looks well-built/stocky (not just overdressed, or hiding things in his jacket), his face looks broad, with facial hair. I think he looks 40-50. I definitely hear 'get down the hill' calmly.

I really struggle in terms of determine what, why, how.. I think the nature of the murders is much simpler than more complex theories. I believe BG had good prior knowledge of the trail and was willing to accept an element of risk with regards to the risk of the trail being public and therefore the possibility he may be rumbled. I hate to say it, but perhaps it was a thrill to him

I also bare in mind that the large majority of murder victims know their killer, perhaps just in the local community and I hate to say this too but they are sometimes related (even distantly). I do struggle with the fact that one perp managed to subdue and murder two teenagers.

I know little of the legalities surrounding US law, I am troubled at how little LE is talking to the public. If they are still struggling for leads in the coming months then it's going to be necessary to release more information and spread that information as far and wide across the US as they can.

I also read just a few posts back (and agreed with) that if Snapchat videos were the main recordings, then they're very short?? 1 minute? Perhaps that's all LE has.

Kudos to the girls for videoing the suspect, they had an inkling albeit an awful one. I cannot stop thinking about them and my heart aches. Keep up the good work everyone.

Hi Kate welcome to Websleuths thank you for joining us. It is great to have more fellow U.K members here. Great first post on this tragic case.

 

[Cocoa]

Had this idea, hope LE/FBI have the same idea:

DNA test ALL Delphi (including Delphi rural areas) men aged between 20-60, there are maybe max 1500 such men.

http://www.city-data.com/city/Delphi-Indiana.html

And even if they then don't get a 100% match on one of the Delphi men, they would at least probably find some kind of family linked DNA match and then they would have a lead to go on.
(the killer could be a Delphi native, still with family in Delphi but have moved our of the Delphi area, but in Feb 2017 come back visit family ? friends? and commit the murder)

Definitely not legal.
If everyone agrees to do it, sure. But it would take forever to process and chances are slim that they would all agree.

 

[layer]

Had this idea, hope LE/FBI have the same idea:

DNA test ALL Delphi (including Delphi rural areas) men aged between 20-60, there are maybe max 1500 such men.

http://www.city-data.com/city/Delphi-Indiana.html

And even if they then don't get a 100% match on one of the Delphi men, they would at least probably find some kind of family linked DNA match and then they would have a lead to go on.
(the killer could be a Delphi native, still with family in Delphi but have moved our of the Delphi area, but in Feb 2017 come back visit family ? friends? and commit the murder)

This assumes that they have DNA to match it to...

 

[Imvp2]

IMO i agree. I was not there but it seems logical that looking for two "lost" teens was a mess. And remember, not everyone would be within that 40 acres. I get the feeling they spread all over town and were yelling their names.

Also, there are no lights down by the bridge. People here have said they would be scared out of their minds to cross that during the day...think about doing it with just a flashlight. Scary stuff right there.

So we see pictures of the area in the bright of day, not when it was dark. And full moon or no, it still would be really hard to see anything down there...without running right into it of course.

It was disorganized and at the time everyone was looking for two teens walking around and maybe back in town or in a car with their friends or at a house with their friends or eating food or, or, or...

I hope this is found quickly, for the sake of the family and that town.

My .02

I wonder who knew the person owning the property would not be on the premises that day?

 

[layer]

I wonder who knew the person owning the property would not be on the premises that day?

The fact of the matter is the property owner's house is not near the crime scene, so even if he had been home there is no reason to expect he'd have known what was happening.

The house across the creek is actually a whole lot closer to the crime scene.

 

[kellala]

RL said he returned home that evening (the 13th) and gave searchers permission to search his land at 6:30pm.

That is the point. If it happens to me, I want to do a basic check of my backyard that same night just to make sure everything is ok. Otherwise, I won't fall asleep.


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[liltexans]

This description seems like the guy would have guilt feelings, taking them out on drugs, drink, or anger, just knowing he committed this crime.

It seems to me that it would be just the opposite.

He would feel thrilled that he was able to do it and get away with it, being excited when recalling each minute as it went down, being giddy that he knew the big horrible secret that no one else knew and being full of himself with exuberance that he was able to carry out his dream plan.

He may be a little angry because his picture and voice were taken and seem to be a little paranoid with them circulating around, but as time passes and he has not been found, this will pass and he start having those evil thoughts of doing it again.

Yes, I agree. I really doubt this perp is feeling anxiety. Anyone who brutally murders two kids during daylight hours is a risk taker and a psychopath, IMO. I don't think he feels guilt or anxiety. He gets a high from his horrible crimes. Maybe people should think back to whether anyone they know was acting unusually calm after the murders. JMO

 

[sf92]

RE: RL (land owner)

I'm not sure if this scenario has been put out there or not. But what if he went into police custody willingly with an agreement from LE to be safe housed? Meaning for his own protection, maybe from the suspect(s). Just an idea.

I'm just lost as to why it was almost 4 weeks in before they found a violation on him. Unless someone tipped on him.

 

[JezyUn]

Could be that it was not a typical catfish in the sense that they may not have been going to meet him, but it could of been a case of him befriending one of them online and a simple hey so what are you getting up to for snow day and one of them telling them their plans. I don't think they specifically went there to meet someone.

Obviously IMO

This could have happened offline as well. It was noted in the recent presser that they had been practicing softball the day prior. Anyone could have wandered up and started chatting with them, they may have mentioned their plans without thinking much of it. I wonder if there are cameras that can be checked around the areas they practiced on that day.
Unless it was a catfish situation, it would not seem likely that the girls knew BG would be on the trails that day, but something about it gives the feeling that he could have known they were going to be there.

According to this statement (below) they had possibly gone to a ball field;
"Just the day before all this happened, they had their equipment out playing catch, working on their batting in the backyard, going to the ball field to hone their skills for the upcoming season," he said. "But they&#8217;ll never get to play a single inning again."
Taken from this article-
http://www.jconline.com/story/news/crime/2017/03/09/family-slain-delphi-girl-speak-out-today/98943428/

JMO.

 

[Evania]

Forgive me if I'm repeating what someone else has said, this thread moves so quickly.

All MOO and speculation of course.

IF we are to believe the FB post from a journalist saying that he/she saw clothes in the creek, it means that this must be the case. If their clothes were in the creek it's likely that the phone was in a pocket (in order for it to have recorded 'the stuff of nightmares') and was probably removed along with clothing. So it probably went into the creek as well. Being submerged usually destroys a phone, so I'm guess that IF is is the case, the video was recovered from the cloud it was synced with another device.

IMO.

If clothes were in fact removed from the victims, the phone could have fallen out in the woods at the scene, and parts of or the entirety of the crime may have been recorded along with the accompanying audio. Perhaps the suspect was so focused on the crime in progress that he had no idea the phone was recording him. JMO

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[Jethro4WS]

IMO i agree. I was not there but it seems logical that looking for two "lost" teens was a mess. And remember, not everyone would be within that 40 acres. I get the feeling they spread all over town and were yelling their names.

Also, there are no lights down by the bridge. People here have said they would be scared out of their minds to cross that during the day...think about doing it with just a flashlight. Scary stuff right there.

So we see pictures of the area in the bright of day, not when it was dark. And full moon or no, it still would be really hard to see anything down there...without running right into it of course.

It was disorganized and at the time everyone was looking for two teens walking around and maybe back in town or in a car with their friends or at a house with their friends or eating food or, or, or...

I hope this is found quickly, for the sake of the family and that town.

My .02

There was an organized search out there that night. They had fire fighters out from two towns along with sheriff deputies and police. It went on for close to 5 hours. They re-grouped once. Returned for a briefing another time. It is not known whether or not that specific area was searched. But, it was not the case that the only thing going on the night of the 13th was a disorganized search.

 

[Novelist]

I know how everyone feels about the news agency I am going to quote, but I found this to be interesting too:

&#8220;I go back before DNA and cell phones,&#8221; said Ives who remembered prosecuting criminal cases in Carroll County with less evidence than in this case since 1987, &#8220;and I certainly would have said, if experienced investigators, as we have in this case, had the evidence that was available in this case, I would expect them to solve it within a month. That&#8217;s without DNA and cell phones which are a big part of what&#8217;s going on here.

http://fox59.com/2017/03/14/prosecutor-says-cops-likely-have-met-delphi-killer-or-received-crucial-tip-due-to-scope-of-probe/

He starts out by talking about before there was DNA and cell phones, but the last sentence, IMO, sounds like an admittance to having DNA.

Thoughts?

MOO

 

[layer]

RE: RL (land owner)

I'm not sure if this scenario has been put out there or not. But what if he went into police custody willingly with an agreement from LE to be safe housed? Meaning for his own protection, maybe from the suspect(s). Just an idea.

That seems possible. The arrest seemed to happen right after it was reported that LE was searching at the barn across the street from his house in relation to the double homicide. So maybe they found something linked to the crime, he got scared, and they took him in to "double-secret protective custody."

Either that, or possibly they discovered something during that search that wasn't related to the crime, but exposed him as a probation violator. :thinking:

 

[Nonna Gigi]

I am just posting general information about the ownership of land that comprises the Monon High Bridge Trail; specifically who owns which parts of the trail and the remaining railroad right-of-way. This info comes from a Carroll County website run by Beacon and qPublic.net which are an "interactive public access portal that allow users to view County and City information, public records and Geographical Information Systems (GIS) via an online portal."

(I have not seen any posts in the threads regarding this info. I joined WS the beginning of March around Thread 17 and I didn't go back and look at much before that time - just too overwhelming. So I apologize if it's been posted before. I just thought this was interesting material for those who may be as detailed-oriented as I am.)

The beginning of the Monon High Bridge Trail starts in downtown Delphi at the City Park. It proceeds on Samuel Milroy Road northeast to Old Camden Road where it continues east-northeast to the Hoosier Heartland. There is an overpass over the Heartland. Then you continue on the trail to the bridge. Here is a link to a map that shows the trail. http://www.indianatrails.com/?q=content/monon-high-bridge-trail-delphi

As far as I have been able to tell, there is absolutely no evidence that there is an entrance to the trail from anywhere on the southeast edge of the bridge. There is however the small parking area off of 300N that has a trail sign for access to the trail, which puts you closer to the bridge and accessing it on the northwest end. I believe that this is the spot that Libby and Abby were dropped off from what I've seen in the media and on WS. JMO.

For the following info, you can find the parcels that are part of the trail on the Beacon Carroll County website.
https://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=377&LayerID=5553&PageTypeID=1&PageID=0
On this map you can zoom in and out to identify the parcels involved for this part of the trail.

So, upon crossing the Hoosier Heartland via the overpass, the trail at this point is part of the old right-of-way for the CSX train tracks and is currently owned by Carroll County Wabash & Erie Canal, Inc. It is my understanding that the Monon High Bridge Trail ends at the northwest edge of the bridge. However, part of the bridge IS included in the parcel owned by Carroll County Wabash & Erie Canal and goes approximately half way across the creek. At this point, however, the remaining part of the bridge is owned by CSX Transportation and continues southeast for approximately 1100 ft. After that parcel ends, the old right-of-way is owned by a private individual.

All of the land bordering the trail is owned by private individuals, which means anytime one leaves the trail after crossing the Heartland, he is entering private property, be it CSX or others (IMO). This includes all land bordering the creek itself. The wooden posts that appear at the southeast end of the bridge in several pics I've seen are on CSX property right-of-way (which continues about 1000 ft further before ownership changes to a private person.) Obviously, just because this land is private doesn't mean people don't leave the trail.

Another piece of information is that the railroad right-of-way continues south/southeast and eventually crosses CR225N, so I suppose someone could park off of that area and hike northwest toward the bridge. I have no idea how passable it is, but the right-of-way is definitely visible on the Beacon website. All of the old railroad right-of-way to the north is owned by private individuals until it reaches that CSX parcel that includes part of the bridge. (To the south of CR225N is once again owned by CSX.)

The above information is correct to the best of my abilities in reading these maps. Hope it is of some interest to others. Just decided to fill some time while waiting for news of an arrest.

 

[EarthtoMel]

I am with you cluciano63. I have fibromyalgia and live in Mississippi. I hate the summers with a passion. I have a lot more pain in the summer also. ((hugs)) to you.

OT I am jealous of those getting snow, though I hope people stay safe. I am a "summer-hater" out west, dreading eight months of heat ahead . One of those weirdos whose chronic health/pain worsens in hot weather instead of the opposite. Ugh...

 

[Considering]

RE: RL (land owner)

I'm not sure if this scenario has been put out there or not. But what if he went into police custody willingly with an agreement from LE to be safe housed? Meaning for his own protection, maybe from the suspect(s). Just an idea.

I'm just lost as to why it was almost 4 weeks in before they found a violation on him. Unless someone tipped on him.

Do we know the violation was 4 weeks ago? If not, maybe it happened a few days ago.