IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #12

[sueC]

Just to confirm: CR/MB and JR apt info came from Herald Times.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/pages/spierer_photos

 

[curiousgirl2010]

Just to make it clear - we have NO proof that the poster is, indeed, Jesse's brother, but it seems like he is. I'm not naive/gullible. I have some friends in common with Jesse's friends and I really do believe that is, indeed, his brother.

However, I cannot be 100% sure, so it shouldn't be regarded as fact.

 

[kissdegirl]

I think you are looking at the wrong spot. She would have turned right past that wall the one way sign is on the other side of College.

The building on the North side is on the EAST side of College Ave. The opposite side of the street and it is very clear.

However, as someone else said he could have been standing in the doorway.

how is it a fair assumption to say he couldn't see her turn the corner IF LE has NOT confirmed either way?

I would think it is a fair assumption to say WE DO NOT KNOW.

We are looking at the same picture and obviously see it differently. I would appreciate it if you wouldn't tell me how to post and what I can and can't assume. We are speculating on information we have available to us, and that is permitted here last I checked.
This is the same picture, further up by the half wall. Again, I see a one way sign, that LS wouldn't have been as tall as. That's what I see. And from JR's apt, I don't see how he could have seen her turn that corner, least of which from a window at night.

 

[elmomom]

Like it (the polygraph taken by JR) or not, his is the only attorney claiming anything about his client having taken one and passing. Now, why aren't the others doing so? And... what about the people we do not have names and stories for - are they willing to take a polygraph?
So granted "providing" one is not as good as "submitting" to one, but it's better than none, or having one and failing.
FWIW.

 

[shockedandappalled]

The pictures I was referring to were just re-posted by kissdegirl, so if those are different pictures than you had in mind, perhaps that's the issue.

Regardless of whether it's a "New York City block" (who cares?), the only way he could've watched her round the corner at 11th and College going south would be:

- Standing outside his doorway
- Running up to the second or third level where MAYBE he could see all the way to the corner, in the dark (but probably not, given the angle and the distance)

The blocks in Bloomington are smaller than NY City blocks that is why I care when someone says a block.

I thought he lived on the Fourth floor - why couldn't he lean out his window?

Basically AGAIN. I do NOT know if he saw her or not. I do know that LE is perfectly capable of checking to see if his story is plausible.

Whether they would release the info. or not I do not know.

<modsnip>

 

[mtnmom3]

I think you are looking at the wrong spot. She would have turned right past that wall the one way sign is on the other side of College.

The building on the North side is on the EAST side of College Ave. The opposite side of the street and it is very clear.

However, as someone else said he could have been standing in the doorway.

how is it a fair assumption to say he couldn't see her turn the corner IF LE has NOT confirmed either way?

I would think it is a fair assumption to say WE DO NOT KNOW.

Look at B-town's original map again. The little wall is at the alley. Not College.

 

[Gabby66]

I already did a few pages back... do you guys want me to post the private messages he wrote me too? I think 2 or 3 pages back...

Yes, please post them.

 

[eqh]

First off, let me say that the most likely scenario in my mind is that something happened at JRs house, and that neither he nor several others who may be involved seem like 'good character' people.

The only worthwhile quote from the article was " 'He is one of the people we wish would be more forthcoming,' said a person involved in the ongoing search for the pretty, petite 20-year-old in Bloomington, Ind."

An anonymous quote. Can't imagine it would be from LE, otherwise it would be cited. A person involved in the ongoing search could be someone helping the search effort with no particular knowledge. There's nothing indicating the quote was from Lauren's family, either.

It may well be from someone who suspects JR for whatever reason and thinks anything less than a confession is withholding (which isn't necessarily unreasonable).

I wouldn't put much stock in this anonymous quote. It could indicate the true situation, but who knows.

By the way, having a lawyer say he passed a polygraph means nothing, obvs... but I'd cut my kid out of my will if he was innocent and took a poly by LE. There's nothing good that can come of it, and if he's scared -- as would be reasonable -- there's a reasonable chance of a false positive, which could lead some crappy outcomes.

 

[shockedandappalled]

We are looking at the same picture and obviously see it differently. I would appreciate it if you wouldn't tell me how to post and what I can and can't assume. We are speculating on information we have available to us, and that is permitted here last I checked.
This is the same picture, further up by the half wall. Again, I see a one way sign, that LS wouldn't have been as tall as. That's what I see. And from JR's apt, I don't see how he could have seen her turn that corner, least of which from a window at night.

I have the right to disagree with you.

When you say it is a fair assumption that he cannot see her then go on to say that LE has NOT confirmed it one way or the other then NO it is NOT a fair assumption.

Have you stood where he was standing and when he was standing and tried looking?

I think it is a fair assumption for someone to say that they do NOT think he could have seen her but we just do NOT know.

BTW you as I can post whatever you want I was disagreeing with your words and not telling you how to post.

 

[elmomom]

We are looking at the same picture and obviously see it differently. I would appreciate it if you wouldn't tell me how to post and what I can and can't assume. We are speculating on information we have available to us, and that is permitted here last I checked.
This is the same picture, further up by the half wall. Again, I see a one way sign, that LS wouldn't have been as tall as. That's what I see. And from JR's apt, I don't see how he could have seen her turn that corner, least of which from a window at night.

thanks for posting this. That is the picture that convinced me that it was possible to see her turn the corner from his doorway. lol

And can we all take a breath and relax? We're all friends here, we all care about LS and we all want to see this solved. But we may disagree.

 

[kissdegirl]

I have the right to disagree with you.

When you say it is a fair assumption that he cannot see her then go on to say that LE has NOT confirmed it one way or the other then NO it is NOT a fair assumption.

Have you stood where he was standing and when he was standing and tried looking?

I think it is a fair assumption for someone to say that they do NOT think he could have seen her but we just do NOT know.

BTW you as I can post whatever you want I was disagreeing with your words and not telling you how to post.

I choose to say it my way. I am not you and do not speak the same way as you. Please stop telling me how I should write my words!

 

[Cancan]

Can anyone with more experience than me answer the following?

- Do the Spierers have enough for a wrongful death suit, or would they need a body?
- Does the criminal investigation need to be over before you can file a civil suit?
- It seems the LE has/had enough evidence to make a few drug arrests here, or at least probable cause searches. What are reasons they wouldn't arrest someone on drug charges just to get them back to Bloomington?

My assumption has been that JR has engaged a lawyer, among other reasons, to protect himself in case of a wrongful death suit or civil suit brought by the Spierers. I do not believe Lauren died in his presence, for lack of a better word, but I can imagine her parents suing him for not walking her home or (if it turns out to be the case) providing drugs or consuming drugs with her.

I believe JR has lawyered up because it's the smart thing to do - he was the last person known to be with a missing girl. Who knows what the future holds for him? He would be crazy *not* to engage the best legal mind he can find.

Several years ago my brother was on his honeymoon in Europe and his housesitter (who happened to be a relative of his wife!) used their house for illegal activity and got busted - something serious. You better believe my brother got the best lawyer he could to cover his own *advertiser censored*, even though he was verifiably out of the country and had nothing to do with anything. (And ended up never being charged with anything - but his home was torn apart, computer impounded, etc. - you better believe he was grateful to have a good lawyer in place.)

I also think that these friends of Lauren's are going to have to watch their backs for the rest of their lives. I think the cops are going to be watching them nonstop, waiting to swoop in on one false move - whether it's drugs or public drinking or texting while driving or jaywalking - so they can bargain for information. I would not want to be HT or any of those boys. I'd be looking over my shoulder 24/7.

 

[imamaze]

Just a reminder...
Terms of Service - Short, Plain Language Version

Terms of Service - Short, Plain Language Version​

We have a detailed, formal Terms of Service (TOS) posted separately, and that TOS is what you will be held to as a member here. It's long and detailed because it has to be in the world we live in, and you are expected to read it, understand it and abide by it. However, we can sum it up as follows:

1) Be a decent human being;
2) Treat your fellow posters as the decent human beings they are;
3) Keep in mind that whatever you post will likely live on forever, so think before you press "Submit Reply".
4) It's a big world. People will disagree with you. You will disagree with them. This can be done with respect, and that's what we expect.

Ima

 

[Jupiter812]

I think you are looking at the wrong spot. She would have turned right past that wall the one way sign is on the other side of College.

You are mistaken. Here is my description from a previous post of the corner LS supposedly rounded:

It is a sharp, right-angle turn with the following within feet of one another: stoplight, one-way street sign, a large utility box, what I think is a street light, large, realty-type sign, a construction sign! All of this is under a tree with low-lying branches.

 

[sueC]

If I remember correctly people were looking at the wrong block - the one AFTER 11th and college. As I said it was not taken exactly from where he could have been standing, at the same time or of a person wearing a white shirt.

No definitive answer can be made here by anyone as to whether or not it was possible he could see.

Honest question and not to be snide but do you think that LE has not checked his story by standing where he said he was standing?

Original post and pic, in front of JR apt looking east to corner of 11th/College, by Long-time Local:

Here's a view of the corner where LS is supposed to have last been seen from the sidewalk in front of 5 North Townhomes just after dark tonight. The lights on 5 North do not illuminate the sidewalk past the edges of the building, and you can see that delineated clearly in this picture. The sidewalk is just suddenly dark. The intersection is lit up by the traffic light to some degree (a green light in this case) and the street light on the opposite corner doesn't light up the corner that LS was on. The only thing that would have made LS visible would have been her hair and her white shirt, and only then if JR was standing on the sidewalk (or perhaps a balcony-- see Btown's picture above). IMO, there's no way anyone looked out a window into the darkness at the end of this street and saw LS round the corner.

 

[eqh]

And another thing that irritates me to no end is the people saying 'he shouldn't have lawyered up, it indicates to me he's guilty.'

I don't mean to offend anyone, but such a statement is ignorant.

IF what JR's lawyer says is true about cooperation (and we know it might or might not be fully true), then JR and his family is handling the situation perfectly if he is truly innocent.

He should communicate everything he knows about that night and there's no reason this can't be communicated without the presence of counsel.

Have you ever had the police try to fish for a confession from your innocent a$$? It is one truly uncomfortable experience and may be counter-productive for everyone involved. Once it is suggested that you're guilty... how is that not scary? How are you going to be as clear as you'd want to be? Remember, memory is reconstructive in nature and easily influenced.

If you are innocent, having a lawyer is going to make it easier for you to communicate your story, and do so more accurately, because your anxiety level will be reduced. Hey, innocent people do get arrested sometimes. Furthermore, it keeps you from doing stupid stuff like agreeing to a polygraph. Polygraphs are always a bad idea... if you are scared you're being accused, don't expect the results to be any better than random.

Importantly, it also keeps the police from lying to you. They can and will say they have evidence directly linking you to a crime, even if they don't. Remember that polygraph? The police can unhook you and then say "you lied, would you like to confess now?" even if you didn't. This is where people are tempted to falsely confess or make up unnecessary lies about the issue in question. And that is counterproductive to the investigation.

I don't want to sound like I'm putting LE's tactics on blast - it is a hard job and most investigators really know their stuff - but this is what happens to 'innocent' people.

TL;DR:
1) If you think you may be accused (as would be reasonable of all POI here), get a lawyer if you can.
2) Having said lawyer doesn't interfere with your ability to say everything you know. There is nothing the police would necessarily gain by seriously questioning you without one.
3) Not only does it protect you, but
4) It can also aid LE by allowing you to be clear and consistent.

 

[shockedandappalled]

BTW I take the statement that only one of her friends came forward to exclude those that are POI whom the police already talked to. Obviously they spoke to JW, CR, MB and JR from the first reports.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/lauren-spierer-missing-frustration-silent-friends-search/story?id=13923810

 

[Faulkner]

Just to make it clear - we have NO proof that the poster is, indeed, Jesse's brother, but it seems like he is. I'm not naive/gullible. I have some friends in common with Jesse's friends and I really do believe that is, indeed, his brother.

However, I cannot be 100% sure, so it shouldn't be regarded as fact.

Thanks for making this clarification since it's an important one.

I think sometimes people inadvertently use definitive language when speculating about a theory and that's a slip where I can usually tell they are still expressing their opinion. When it comes to identity on the Internet -- as I think elmomom said last week, though -- any person or group of people can put up a pretense of anything.

As long as we call him the guy who says he's JW's brother, I'm cool with that.

 

[curiousgirl2010]

Thanks for making this clarification since it's an important one.

I think sometimes people inadvertently use definitive language when speculating about a theory and that's a slip where I can usually tell they are still expressing their opinion.

When it comes to identity on the Internet -- as I think elmomom said last week, though -- any person or group of people can put up a pretense of anything.

As long as we call him the guy who say's he's JW's brother, I'm cool with that.

You are right. I did gather some information though, he has been posting about music on that site since Dec 2010 and he has 2 personal friends from CO - where he goes to school (and so does JW's brother, according to facebook) - who also posts there. One of them posted on the Lauren thread "Sorry to hear this, specially since I have a personal friendship with you" - something along thse lines.

Anyways, is is PROBABLY him, but I cannot say 100% sure it is...

 

[Jupiter812]

thanks for posting this. That is the picture that convinced me that it was possible to see her turn the corner from his doorway. lol

And can we all take a breath and relax? We're all friends here, we all care about LS and we all want to see this solved. But we may disagree.

If you're talking about the picture of the blue and yellow frame houses under construction, that is not taken from JR's doorway.