IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #14

[bessie]

I read somewhere (dont have a link) that LE did use search dogs in some of the initial searches, as well as searches that took place in some of the heavy growth or wooded areas.

Lt. Parker said dogs were used in the searches, and one of our membesr who's participated in volunteer searches, reported seeing lots of volunteer handlers and their canines. But we don't know if cadaver dogs were used, and if so, were they brought into the POI's residences.

 

[ingra1327]

So it's possible they used tracking dogs in the earlier searches and just now today are bringing in the cadaver dogs??

 

[dodie20]

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...ion-has-no-memory-their-last-moments-together

I have always found interesting Salzmann's comments 'I hope they follow all the leads we've given' and wanting the person who punched his client arrested.

I know 2 wrongs don't make a right, but considering that his clent was breaking the law, (I'm guessing the no tresspass was legalized), it seems kind of pretentious for him to expect the puncher to be arrested. What about charges filed against his client for breaking a CT card? Even if there was no card, he had been banned, was on a list, and almost for sure knew it. All this from somebody who didnt' even bother going to a dr? I'm sorry, but considering that a girl is missing, it's hard for me to see this guy as much of a victim.moo

 

[5150_bound]

also from CR's atty:

The two then went to a building complex up the street, where Rossman lives. Police have said she visited two apartments there. Salzmann said there was another "confrontation" that morning at Rossman's building, but he would not elaborate.
Spierer was last seen rounding a corner on her way back to her apartment — a half-mile away — about 4:15 a.m. Salzmann said Rossman was not the last one to see Spierer that morning; three or four others saw her after Rossman."

well how does CR's atty know about a 2nd confrontation? especially given that CR 'lost his memory' 15 minutes before the first fistacuffs.

others saw LS after CR
1)MB
2)JR
3)JR's guest.
anyone else?

i think whatever went down happened in 5 north.
i do not believe the 4:15 phone call being from Lauren.
i think thats either a panic call from JR or an alibi call

some here were saying they thought the friends would call 911 if there
was a case of an overdose or medical issue. on this site: http://www.friendsdontletfriendsdie.com/children/our_children.shtml
are young kids who overdosed & there friends did not call 911. many in fact-
were dumped out in the middle of no where by their 'friends' because they were afraid they would get in trouble. sadly it happens a lot more than most people think.

I think if we are to bring JW into this- i think it's much more likely HE came to Lauren, not the other way around. if she wanted him to come and get her, why wouldnt she just use JR's phone (or someone elses) to call JW?

 

[jabberwocky]

Lt. Parker said dogs were used in the searches, and one of our membesr who's participated in volunteer searches, reported seeing lots of volunteer handlers and their canines. But we don't know if cadaver dogs were used, and if so, were they brought into the POI's residences.

This is a WS member's (sarx) website. Great info on the different uses and types of dogs used in investigations.

http://www.4themissing.net/dogs-in-sar.html

 

[Anymoment]

This is a longshot, but what if JR and visiting friend decided to go out later and encountered LS and CR on their way to 5 North and something happened? Perhaps CR needed help if LS was extremely wasted or even ill (or worse). It would make sense that MB, CR, and JR would then have to make up a story as a coverup if they got scared.

 

[PineMushroom]

Did you notice that only one person (CR) has an exact date listed for when he spoke to LE, (10Jun). I wonder if that is the person who came forward. I don't know why, it makes no sense, but that's how it struck me when I read it.

You very well might be right in wondering this.

By Abby Tonsing 331-4245 | atonsing@heraldt.com
June 10, 2011, last update: 6/10 @ 6:24 pm

By 4 p.m. Friday, Bloomington attorney Carl Salzmann said he and his client, Corey Rossman, had just finished with another meeting with Bloomington police.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/10/news.qp-7359886.sto

By Bethany Nolan 331-4373 | bnolan@heraldt.com
June 9, 2011, last update: 6/9 @ 6:43 pm

He said he and Rossman are seeking more information about the assault from police, and said Rossman was only aware it happened because he woke up with a sore jaw and bruises and after other friends shared details about what had happened. “His clock just got cleaned, I guess,” Salzmann said.

The local attorney said Rossman is cooperating fully with police, and said any details he or his client have discovered in their own investigation have been shared with local law enforcement and the prosecutor’s office.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/09/news.629101.sto

Elmomom, while it is not clear for sure, I too am starting to wonder if CR was the friend who 'reached out' to police.

I could see a last-man-in-town type scenario which would get me lawyered up and walking into the police department for a preemptive chat. It is my own speculation, but I could see this, based only on my reading of Herald-Times news accounts June 9 and 10. IMHO

 

[TonyGatto]

Why is AS, roommate of HT and LS, named by the Herald-Times' today in Who's Who? Don't believe she was one of the two friends who filed the missing person's report. Had she and HT gone with LS and DR earlier in the morning to JR's building (to the party)?

I cannot even confirm that AS was around that night -- or even in Bloomington.

 

[eqh]

Things that make me wonder about BPD:

1) LS apartment was not cordoned off until a week + after she went missing
2) Heard early about searches at lakes, but not at landfills for Friday morning's garbage
3) The white truck debacle: Why didn't they realize earlier it only went around once?
4) Their pleas for security camera footage makes me wonder if they didn't know where all the cameras were -- and why not ask businesses directly?
5) Why not a full search with scent and cadaver dogs at these apartments before?

Not saying that any one of these or all of these indicate a lack of competence - we can't know that - but I wonder if there have been missteps.

 

[TonyGatto]

I know the question was for elmomom, but I'd like to offer a theory.

I think it's plausible that LS would've have attempted the walk to JW's. The night started to out to be fun, but it took a turn for the worse when the fight broke out at Smallwood. Any young woman would've been shaken by that. CR's in bad shape, and she has to help him home. She's not comfortable there, so she decides to go back to JR's. She's lost her phone, shoes, and keys, and she needs to regroup, talk to someone about what happened. Their grandparents were neighbors for 20 years, and even if he was not a close friend, I think he offered a sense of familiarity and safety. But it doesn't turn out that way. Maybe he's loaded, not being helpful. He might've even tried to come on to her. For whatever reason, she doesn't want to be there. She feels sick, tired, and just wants to be home, somewhere safe. DR doesn't answer, so she can't get in her apartment. Maybe she can make it to JW's. After all, she really does love him, and he's the only person who can comfort her now.

So let's suppose she makes the diagonal across College Av and goes into the camera-less territory. That means we're back to random abduction. Or she somehow made it all the way to JW's and then something bad happened.

I'm trying to keep an open mind, but I go back to JR. This is not a legal argument...but...why not, at this point, if what he said is true, make some sort of a statement through your lawyer clarifying what you saw. Of course JR shouldn't speak to the press, but with his lawyer, they could craft a two line statement, other than we gave ourselves a polygraph and have been fully cooperative. I suppose there is an argument that JR doesn't want to do anything to help cops nail JW, which is just as bad as being a perpetrator.

I want to find a way to believe JR, I really do.

 

[Anymoment]

I'm just not getting why JW, after repeatedly trying to contact LS on her cell phone, went to bed. Surely he must have heard that she was out and about with CR, especially after the Smallwood altercation. This is his GIRLFRIEND! Not getting it!

 

[eqh]

I'm just not getting why JW, after repeatedly trying to contact LS on her cell phone, went to bed. Surely he must have heard that she was out and about with CR, especially after the Smallwood altercation. This is his GIRLFRIEND! Not getting it!

Why are you assuming that the people who confronted CR were a bunch of white knights?

 

[Anymoment]

Why are you assuming that the people who confronted CR were a bunch of white knights?

I'm not sure what you mean by "White Knights". I find it a bit strange that JW was trying to connect with LS a good part of the evening and then just went to bed. I am guessing that since he spends a good amount of his time at Smallwood (can find a link), I would think that he heard about the altercation with CR when his girlfriend was with him from others that reside at Smallwood. Of course, I do not have proof of this. Just wondering.

 

[eqh]

I brought this up back in thread 6 and saw people posting about it again on the last thread. The "ping" information from POI's cell phones should be attainable in this case, providing that they (POI's) had their cell phones with them during the time period in question from roughly 2am to 2pm June 3rd. LE should be able to get a general idea of the POI's movements. It's not an exact science, but lets say for instance 1 or more POI's made say, a 10-15 mile drive to a secluded/odd location during the time frame. It maybe very useful to LE to be able to place POI's in a suspicious location in or around the time in question.

I know this information can be made available to LE. I live in the Pacific North West and we often times have hikers, climbers, etc. lost, hurt, or trapped in rugged country.

While it may not be an exact science, "Ping" technology can help narrow down a search area drasticly, if like I said you could place POI/s going to a suspicious location in or around the time in question you may have a break in this case.

I really hope that LE has tried this angle on the case.

Last time I posted this people attacked me saying well how could this help find LS, when we know she left her cell at Kilroy's... I know LS left her cell phone at Kilroy's, as has been widely reported. I am speaking of the POI's in this case whom in my best working theory, had at least something to do with Lauren's disappearance.

Bottom line is if this technology can be used to help locate lost or trapped outdoor enthusiasts, maybe it can be worth a shot in this investigation.

To anyone who is an expert on this -- how hard is it to actually recover 'ping' data after the fact? I'm guessing it isn't as easy as we'd like to think.

 

[Anymoment]

To anyone who is an expert on this -- how hard is it to actually recover 'ping' data after the fact? I'm guessing it isn't as easy as we'd like to think.

Just wondering why you want to know from the "experts" how hard it is to recover ping data after the fact? I'm hoping if it was brought up here, then the authorities are already on it.

 

[Mophebius]

To anyone who is an expert on this -- how hard is it to actually recover 'ping' data after the fact? I'm guessing it isn't as easy as we'd like to think.

I am not an expert! but I did a small amount of research and determined that every cell phone in the united states manufactured after 2005 MUST BE EQUIPED with a gps locator (thanks to 9/11). So the ability is there to track anyone's movements, at least by the Feds.

Where the FBI is assisting in this case I would imagine that they have this information or are working to obtain it. I will post a couple links I found interesting, please feel free to do some research on this yourself. Unless the POI's left their cell phones behind the night of 6-3-11 (highly doubtful) then their every move was captured and retrievable by LE.

http://www.ehow.com/info_8339832_cell-phone-ping-technology.html

http://socialtimes.com/how-to-track-someones-location-via-cell-phone_b11285

http://www.ehow.com/how_7374451_ping-pinpoint-cell-phone.html

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...gs_to_zero_in_on_fugitive_in_amber_alert.html

Past cell phone movements are attainable this way as well. From what I read "they" can watch current and past movements from "pinging technology". I encourage you to check it out for yourselves. I have been saying this from the beggining of the case.

Assuming the perp/s of this crime is somebody known to LE, then they should be able to follow the "ping" trail and get some answers in this case.

 

[docwho3]

. . .I find it a bit strange that JW was trying to connect with
LS a good part of the evening and then just went to bed. I am guessing
that since he spends a good amount of his time at Smallwood (can find a
link), I would think that he heard about the altercation with CR when his
girlfriend was with him from others that reside at Smallwood. Of course,
I do not have proof of this. Just wondering.

It seems to be a fair question.

Another question is: How do we know he just went to bed? I mean, is
there eyewitness confirmation or do we only have his word?
(Not assuming he is lying or guilty of anything but it seems a fair
question just as there are fair questions to be asked elsewhere too.)

 

[Chili Fries]

To anyone who is an expert on this -- how hard is it to actually recover 'ping' data after the fact? I'm guessing it isn't as easy as we'd like to think.

Should be just a question of getting the search warrants. An urban area like Bloomington has a lot of towers that can provide data.

The statement by JR's attorney about him passing a polygraph, but not one administered by LE, throws up a big red flag for me. That is classic misdirection.

 

[eqh]

Should be just a question of getting the search warrants. An urban area like Bloomington has a lot of towers that can provide data.

The statement by JR's attorney about him passing a polygraph, but not one administered by LE, throws up a big red flag for me. That is classic misdirection.

The question is, how hard is it to actually, physically recover the data? How is such data saved? In the telephone, on a server somewhere? Does it involve intensive data-mining? Of course, there's no doubt that the police would have been working on it ASAP.

I'm just trying to assess the likelihood that LE would be able to recover anything useful from this or if it is a needle-in-the-haystack at best.

Edited to add: As an analogy, your computer has a trace of everything you do on it, but it isn't always possible, even for LE, to fully recover something if it has been overwritten.

I suppose it is safe to assume that if they had a 'ping' from, say, JR's phone in Gnaw Bone, Indiana 90 minutes after he last reported seeing her, they'd be a lot closer to finding her and cracking the case.

 

[eqh]

I'm not sure what you mean by "White Knights". I find it a bit strange that JW was trying to connect with LS a good part of the evening and then just went to bed. I am guessing that since he spends a good amount of his time at Smallwood (can find a link), I would think that he heard about the altercation with CR when his girlfriend was with him from others that reside at Smallwood. Of course, I do not have proof of this. Just wondering.

It is a cogent point, but I wouldn't 100% assume that anyone involved in the altercation would have necessarily called JW or had JW’s best interests in mind, even if unconfirmed reports say they were his "friends". Nor would JW assume she's up to anything unusual, if he's lacking other informaiton.