IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #24

[cspring]

When all this first started coming out i will say i was first to jump on the boyfriend--that was b4 i really started reading everyday Abt everything i could. As i started learning more about the night(or what Weve been allowed to know)i forgot all Abt JW. And i prob didnt think Abt him for weeks. But as we all go round and round here with what Weve been given its hard to totally discount him. I believe it is totally possible that any number of these "stories" floating around IS what really happened-including JWs being involved. Im not gonna just take the word of a roommate-a roommate would most certainly lie for u-or at the very least believe his roommate had nothing to do with something so horrible.
I know that if i was supposed to meet up with my man & wasn't gonna show we would have a convo Abt it. And if he thought i was running around town high/drunk with some other guy....well it certainly wouldnt be a GOOD situation. At the very least i believe my boyfriend of 2 yrs & i would at least speak to tell each other goodnite, love u. Theres absolutely no way Im ruling JW out until Im hearing it from someone in charge of the investigation. Nothing i read on this board will change my mind.

 

[Jupiter812]

I think it goes without saying that CS/RS could have easily met any one of the local POI. As well, it is certainly possible to connect DB with this part of CS' most recent letter:

"Let me begin by introducing myself, although, I am sure you know who I am. I am Charlene Spierer, Lauren’s mother. Perhaps we have met. You are responsible for Lauren’s disappearance. You know where she is. You are guilty of a heinous crime. That, you know."

 

[Jupiter812]

snipped

Auto correct is irritating sometimes!

It's very easy to turn it off from iPhone:

Go to Settings > General > Keyboard menu > Auto-Correction > Off

 

[bx2]

I believe it's reasonable to start from the supposition that under normal circumstances, JW would call his girlfriend on a night that they had plans, and if not, to wonder why he did not and wonder where he was. They reportedly had plans. Those plans were not implemented. Why? Did he try to call, and was simply unsuccessful in reaching her, as was suggested by LS' roommate in an article that I have posted a link to in a previous message? Did he actually talk to her after the game but before she went out with her friends? We simply don't know, but on the weight of what scant evidence we have, it seems to me more likely that he would have called her that night. I think it's entirely reasonable to start from that supposition.

If he did talk to her, and she did not spend time with him that night, then he may have a motive. His alibi (that he was home in bed, if that is even his alibi) could be disproven by a phone call from his home or another location. I don't think the question of whether he called can or should be dismissed out of hand or assumed away.

If I heard from a credible source that there were no calls (which is a knowable fact), I would be able to accept that despite plans with his girlfriend who he supposedly loved and adored, it did not occur to him to worry or be jealous or try to reach her when she didn't call him or appear, he just simply went to bed. Otherwise, the information seems either incomplete and/or suspicious to me.

I'm struggling a bit to convey that I think most of what you say above is completely reasonable, but at the same time operating under some assumptions that we just have no idea if they are true. Yes, its fine to surmise that he would talk to her at some point in the night, but we have no idea when this did or didn't happen. We don't know if there was any rational structure to their plans or if it was as simple as, give me a call when you want to hang out. We don't even know that there was any such plans, only that HT is providing secondhand (at the least?) info from him. We just can't know what the context to the plans was.

 

[imkeylime]

A 4:30 a.m. departure from Bloomington would put one in Bloomfield Hills, MI around 10 a.m. That's just about right for driving timeframe.

It would a good driving timeframe, but one would also need time to drop LS off, unless she went all the way to MI. We've discussed why bringing a body to your home state would be risky, which I agree with. OTOH, getting her away from Bloomington could have advantages in terms of search parties and LE. The direct route to MI would be 37/I-69/I-94 I realize, but you could take 37/I-465E/I-75N. I've driven I-75 from MI to get to Dayton and Indy before. That part of I-75 used to be pretty rural, as OH can be. I don't remember what I-465 is like between Indy and Dayton, though. Anyhow, I wonder if this might be a less expected route, with possible drop-off spots (?).

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I believe it's reasonable to start from the supposition that under normal circumstances, JW would call his girlfriend on a night that they had plans, and if not, to wonder why he did not and wonder where he was.

I believe it's reasonable to suppose that about any boyfriend and girlfriend. However, I also believe that it's reasonable to acknowledge that someone might not call. I do not believe that reasonableness calls for one position or the other, at least as to this particular individual, not knowing them or their habits. Here, we have no indication that he called. Rather, we have a widespread belief that he did so, based on a misreading/telephone-game-misdescription of an article stating that he repeatedly tried to contact her the next afternoon. The disbelief that he did not call is based on the misbelief that he did. Absent any indication that he did call, I believe it's more reasonable to believe that he did not, as he has presumably said to a polygraph examiner who may have been LE.

They reportedly had plans. Those plans were not implemented. Why?

Because his girlfriend supposedly did a lot of drugs, beginning before she left for the night, which presumably changed her priorities (to looking for more drugs?), and possibly robbed her of judgment, memory, and/or a good deal of cognition.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I note that the only reason we know that JR had a guest in the first place is HT's comments. Salzmann's comments never would have told us that. I really do wonder about all the times we heard about how untrustworthy HT sounded.

 

[Carmen101]

this has been on my mind a few days but I have been hesitant to post because I am not good at finding news articles, but didn't LE say there was a car they were interested in as well as the truck and then they released the trucks image and forgot about the car. I could have sworn they said something about a car as well.. anyone remember?

Jenniek, I remember that as well.

 

[imkeylime]

I note that the only reason we know that JR had a guest in the first place is HT's comments. Salzmann's comments never would have told us that. I really do wonder about all the times we heard about how untrustworthy HT sounded.

True, but the tweet about the Runcible Spoon did exist, correct? Why would that be ... would he pass through Bloomington and not visit his high school friend or make a random tweet? Is the tweet solid?

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

this has been on my mind a few days but I have been hesitant to post because I am not good at finding news articles, but didn't LE say there was a car they were interested in as well as the truck and then they released the trucks image and forgot about the car. I could have sworn they said something about a car as well.. anyone remember?

I have no memory of this, so I may be off-base here, but is it possible the truck was the "car"?

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

True, but the tweet about the Runcible Spoon did exist, correct? Why would that be ... would he pass through Bloomington and not visit his high school friend or make a random tweet? Is the tweet solid?

Oh, I believe it's likely he did visit JR, at least after seeing the social networking connections between the two (absent those, we wouldn't know for sure that they're friends). My point was not to discredit this claim because it was made by HT, but rather the reverse - to credit HT for bringing the information to us.

 

[SUNchips]

There is no 2:51 altercation. And there is no "other male" - LE has been clear that there is a single individual on the tape with LS. What are you referring to when you say "LE spent so much time chasing their tail over JW"?

I believe the poster was referring to the altercation at Smallwood. Also there could very well be other people/a different man in the alley with LS, as LE has never come out and said that it was CR in the alley with her, just that they know who it is.

 

[SUNchips]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-09-missing-indiana-student_n.htm

I'm just grasping at straws here, going through old news articles, and I found a couple of interesting things in this one.

1. It says CR's car was searched. I wasn't sure that CR had a car in Bloomington on June 3, but here is confirmation.
2. HT says "We literally met him once," about CR. IMO LS probably really had seen CR only once before June 3, which to me places even more suspicion on him.
3. This- "Thickstun said Wednesday that investigators are looking at three possible violations, not necessarily limited to Spierer herself: sale of alcohol to a minor, allowing a minor to loiter and sale of alcohol to an intoxicated person", says to me, at least, that LS was not visibly intoxicated when she entered Kilroy's/when she was served, because Kilroy's only received violations for the other two offenses.

Not much, but, like I said, just grasping at straws...

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I believe the poster was referring to the altercation at Smallwood. Also there could very well be other people/a different man in the alley with LS, as LE has never come out and said that it was CR in the alley with her, just that they know who it is.

LE has never said that CR was the individual who was punched in the altercation or that JR was the individual who saw LS turn the corner at 4:30, either. But we basically know those things, and that CR is the person in the alley, from statements by lawyers and others. If the poster was referring to the SW altercation, between 2:30 and 2:40, then there still is no "other male," but rather a group of people, at least some of whom were friends of JW, and one of whom (who may or may not have been a friend of JW) who punched CR. If JW were among that group, as the poster implies (on your reading), that would be recorded on videotape, directly contradicting his "alibi," and LE would likely be all over him (and not the others). He wasn't, it seems safe to say.

 

[SUNchips]

this has been on my mind a few days but I have been hesitant to post because I am not good at finding news articles, but didn't LE say there was a car they were interested in as well as the truck and then they released the trucks image and forgot about the car. I could have sworn they said something about a car as well.. anyone remember?

I thought so too. I looked for articles about it and this is the best I could find. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20070880-504083.html

Though, the articles wording makes me think that they might have been thinking that there were two separate white trucks around the time of her disappearance.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I thought so too. I looked for articles about it and this is the best I could find. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20070880-504083.html

Though, the articles wording makes me think that they might have been thinking that there were two separate white trucks around the time of her disappearance.

I think the article clearly suggests that, and also refers to the truck as a "car."

 

[SUNchips]

I think the article clearly suggests that, and also refers to the truck as a "car."

I don't understand the point of this post. Yes they use the word "car"...

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I don't understand the point of this post.

You're familiar with the 4:14 and :24 camera sightings of the truck, correct? There was some question whether those cameras recorded the same vehicle, or two different vehicles. That seems clearly what is referred to by the "one or two cars" in the article.

 

[plaidmom]

LE has never said that CR was the individual who was punched in the altercation or that JR was the individual who saw LS turn the corner at 4:30, either. But we basically know those things, and that CR is the person in the alley, from statements by lawyers and others. If the poster was referring to the SW altercation, between 2:30 and 2:40, then there still is no "other male," but rather a group of people, at least some of whom were friends of JW, and one of whom (who may or may not have been a friend of JW) who punched CR. If JW were among that group, as the poster implies (on your reading), that would be recorded on videotape, directly contradicting his "alibi," and LE would likely be all over him (and not the others). He wasn't, it seems safe to say.

BBM

The ONLY way to KNOW anything in this case, is to have been there.

<modsnip>

TIA.

 

[plaidmom]

If I heard from a credible source that there were no calls (which is a knowable fact), I would be able to accept that despite plans with his girlfriend who he supposedly loved and adored, it did not occur to him to worry or be jealous or try to reach her when she didn't call him or appear, he just simply went to bed. Otherwise, the information seems either incomplete and/or suspicious to me.

Bolded and snipped by me....

The only credible source at this point in time, for me, would be a statement/PC by LE stating very specifically that they had pulled JW's phone records and that no calls/texts/ or web activity was noted from 2:30-8:00 am on June 3. 2011 on his phone.


Room mates are nice and all, but they just don't cut it as 100% rock-solid credible witnesses. :innocent: