IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27
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If it was an accident? OK by me. Rape-Murder or Kidnapping equals no quarter,
no mercy. And, he will be caught. Lauren will be found.
shotgunhomicide
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The window of opportunity for forgiveness is over, in my opinion. If this was an accident that spiraled out of control (which I suspect), it doesn't negate everything they've put Lauren's family through. LS had her fair share of problems like we all do, but if her death was her own undoing, she still didn't deserve getting dumped like a sack of trash. NO ONE deserves that, and I hope there are still penalties for the person(s) involved if this is the case. It might not get anyone to speak up about what they know, but they deserve to know part of the torment the people that were the closest to Lauren have felt since her disappearance. Ultimately, that's why i'm starting to doubt this case will ever get resolved. Again, that's just the feeling I have, but i'm not privy to all of the evidence and information the Spierer's have.
In any event, I hope Lauren is at peace and I hope her family can eventually be at peace too. To the person(s) involved, there is no rest for the wicked.
In any event, I hope Lauren is at peace and I hope her family can eventually be at peace too. To the person(s) involved, there is no rest for the wicked.
cluciano63
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I don't know why you are so certain.
Many, many cases are not solved, people not found.
It doesn't mean that LE did not try, or that the family does not care...it just doesn't happen sometimes. In fact, lots of the time, unfortunately.
JMO
Jupiter812
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For the first time that I'm aware of, the Indiana Daily Student (IDS), IU's student newspaper, did not publish an article about the Spierer's recent interview. This is extremely sad. I understand they may have guidelines about publishing the parts about CR, as he is currently a student and not a suspect, but they printed nothing. The IDS is all student-run and they have an editorial board who votes on issues including what to print. They do have an advisor but as far as I know they are free from interference of IU administration.
I noticed that too, Jupiter.
I'm still thinking about how one of the last articles said that according to the Spierers, JR met up with LS at the bar. If JR and CR's stories were true, why on earth would these details not be out in the open. Why would it have ever been in question whether Lauren was by herself at the bar? Or whether she got kicked out? Why didn't her friends ever correct the rumors when they were speaking to the media early on? Instead, the only information that has ever been made public by the POI has been information that would defer any responsibility for Lauren, and Lauren's friends seem to have only appeared to speak for the POI: "JR didn't have any alcohol left at his house" "She asked MB if he wanted to party" "He watched her walk to the corner without stumbling".
I wonder if the JR info was told to the police/ Spierers or uncovered by the PI... I can sure understand the Spierers' frustration at the claims of cooperation from Lauren's friends/ POI, given the selective memory at work here.
Edited to add: This new detail, if true, also makes me rethink the whole out of town visitor component. From the beginning I have argued that the most likely scenario was that JR's supposed out-of-town guest wasn't even with them that night, because I couldn't understand how he would have been able to keep such a low profile and prevent this detail from getting to the media. Now I'm not so sure.
I'm still thinking about how one of the last articles said that according to the Spierers, JR met up with LS at the bar. If JR and CR's stories were true, why on earth would these details not be out in the open. Why would it have ever been in question whether Lauren was by herself at the bar? Or whether she got kicked out? Why didn't her friends ever correct the rumors when they were speaking to the media early on? Instead, the only information that has ever been made public by the POI has been information that would defer any responsibility for Lauren, and Lauren's friends seem to have only appeared to speak for the POI: "JR didn't have any alcohol left at his house" "She asked MB if he wanted to party" "He watched her walk to the corner without stumbling".
I wonder if the JR info was told to the police/ Spierers or uncovered by the PI... I can sure understand the Spierers' frustration at the claims of cooperation from Lauren's friends/ POI, given the selective memory at work here.
Edited to add: This new detail, if true, also makes me rethink the whole out of town visitor component. From the beginning I have argued that the most likely scenario was that JR's supposed out-of-town guest wasn't even with them that night, because I couldn't understand how he would have been able to keep such a low profile and prevent this detail from getting to the media. Now I'm not so sure.
I have started thinking that this case may be much simpler than the various scenarios and possibilities. Based on the news info, the POI who was with her most of the evening has refused to talk to the police and her parents and claims "memory loss". Is that right? That is my understanding at least. If so, that is suspicious. If e there was really "memory loss" why would n't he talk to her parents and/or the police? There would be nothing to be afraid of, as he supposedly suffers from memory loss about the incident. The combination of the claim of memory loss AND the refusal to talk is suspicious.
An alternative scenario may be that LS never made it back to 5 North. Is it possible that LS "disappeared" before she made it back to the 5 North apartments? Is it possible that the POI with the "memory loss" returned alone to that building after LS "disappeared" and his roommate and the neighbor POI offered to help him and cover up for him not knowing what exactly might have happened? I have not read anywhere any evidence from cameras documenting that LS really made it to 5 North.
Queen_City
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http://newsandtribune.com/breakingnews/x157474431/Human-remains-found
At least one set of human remains found on the property of a man that has been charged with murder... but the remains aren't from either woman that they have charged him with. Obviously this is just speculation, but it's scary to think that it could be Lauren, or anyone that has gone missing from Indiana for that matter.
At least one set of human remains found on the property of a man that has been charged with murder... but the remains aren't from either woman that they have charged him with. Obviously this is just speculation, but it's scary to think that it could be Lauren, or anyone that has gone missing from Indiana for that matter.
Wow, that is scary, especially given the statement that the "remains appear to be weeks to months old — at the most." The poor Spierers, having to go through this every time a gruesome discovery is made.
I'm on my way out (and running late), but where is this property in relation to Bloomington, if I may ask ...
Jupiter812
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AnalyticalExaminer posted once or twice here about JR being at Sports that night.
Seems that her friends have reason to make her the guilty one, to point the finger at her and distance themselves. I recall when HT and perhaps it was BW were on camera early in the first few days and they very eagerly chimed "We weren't there that night!" or We didn't go out! something like that.
Maybe some witnesses from Sports told LE early on but those witnesses are not part of the immediate circle who may have a pact to keep things hushed.
Jupiter812
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Nope, no cameras beyond the gravel lot which is where her key/card thingy was found by a neighbor.
That means that this theory is possible. She might have never made it to 5 North. And after her "disappearance", the PI with the "memory loss" might have returned back to his place alone and his friends decided to make up a story that would keep him out of trouble.
Possible, but I wonder how far friends would be willing to go with a made up story. Would you be willing to have your name and face in the media as a POI just to keep a friend out of trouble? Would you avoid talking to LE or taking an official polygraph? Would you hire a high profile defense attorney all to cover for a friend? I don't think so, personally.
I do think it's possible that she didn't make it to 5 north conscious or without help though (given her things dropped in the gravel lot).
More rehashing of old stuff... but I just tried to find that article that had JR's account of the night, as told by HT. It's not online anymore at the original link, but is cited in full by commenter AK (June 26, 11:41 am) under this article: http://tonygatto.com/2011/06/26/mis...e-to-stonewall-leave-hadar-and-i-out-of-this/
It's kind of interesting to read it again, in retrospect, since IIRC, it's the first time the info from JR was made public -- If JR filled in the blanks for HT, note the info that is conveyed (and what isn't: i.e. him going to the bar)
* 12:30 am, LS and DR go to JR's. JR has out of town guest. They are joined by CR and MB.
* Rosenbaum had already run out of alcohol by the time Spierer and Rohn got to the apartment
* Rohn asked Spierer to go back to Smallwood at about 1:30 a.m.; but she said she was going to Kilroy’s Sports Bar. Spierer and Rossman went to Kilroy’s. Rohn went back to Smallwood
* Rossman left the bar around 2:30 a.m. — and Spierer walked out without her cellphone and without her shoes.They walked back to Spierer’s building where Rossman had an altercation with other students.[article inserts lawyer confirmation about CR's fight/ memory loss]
* Spierer and Rossman left Smallwood at about 2:45 a.m. and headed to his apartment [ article confirms last time LS seen on tape is in alley, then cites MB lawyer that MB put CR to bed, LS went to JR's.]
Back to Hadar;
* Rosenbaum told her he tried to stop Spierer from leaving, that he wanted her to sleep on the couch. Using Rosenbaum’s phone, Spierer called Rohn to find out if he knew where her cell phone was.... [article cites DR lawyer, phone not answered]
Also note, the whole story under which this is quoted is about how HT doesn't want to speak to Gatto about Lauren. And yet, she's willing to speak to the media as JR's voice (the last person to see LS) about aspects of the night that she would have no way of knowing about, while lawyers speak up for the other 3 POI.
It's kind of interesting to read it again, in retrospect, since IIRC, it's the first time the info from JR was made public -- If JR filled in the blanks for HT, note the info that is conveyed (and what isn't: i.e. him going to the bar)
* 12:30 am, LS and DR go to JR's. JR has out of town guest. They are joined by CR and MB.
* Rosenbaum had already run out of alcohol by the time Spierer and Rohn got to the apartment
* Rohn asked Spierer to go back to Smallwood at about 1:30 a.m.; but she said she was going to Kilroy’s Sports Bar. Spierer and Rossman went to Kilroy’s. Rohn went back to Smallwood
* Rossman left the bar around 2:30 a.m. — and Spierer walked out without her cellphone and without her shoes.They walked back to Spierer’s building where Rossman had an altercation with other students.[article inserts lawyer confirmation about CR's fight/ memory loss]
* Spierer and Rossman left Smallwood at about 2:45 a.m. and headed to his apartment [ article confirms last time LS seen on tape is in alley, then cites MB lawyer that MB put CR to bed, LS went to JR's.]
Back to Hadar;
* Rosenbaum told her he tried to stop Spierer from leaving, that he wanted her to sleep on the couch. Using Rosenbaum’s phone, Spierer called Rohn to find out if he knew where her cell phone was.... [article cites DR lawyer, phone not answered]
Also note, the whole story under which this is quoted is about how HT doesn't want to speak to Gatto about Lauren. And yet, she's willing to speak to the media as JR's voice (the last person to see LS) about aspects of the night that she would have no way of knowing about, while lawyers speak up for the other 3 POI.
It is possible that if they agreed to do that they were not expecting it would take such publicity or LE involvement. They might have assumed that police would buy their story quickly. If they lied initially, then they might have been afraid to change their stories. Lets not forget that they quickly hired lawyers who seemed to have advised them not to talk, at least in their absence.
The whole story starts with the "memory loss". That fact alone strongly suggests involvement in some way of one of the POIs. And if the POI with the memory loss was somehow responsible, the only way to explain the rest is that the other 2 (or at the very least one of the 2) covered up.
IDK ... perhaps one would do this only if the friend had something on you as well, i.e., the reason LS was in danger (or worse) had as much to do with one POI as another. While I don't believe CR's memory loss is legitimate, he might have been pretty messed up that night. Perhaps how he got that way is what he doesn't want to share, since LS might have been worse.
It does seem that JR and CR were close, as were CR and MB. I suppose there could be some unholy trinity between the three. Then you have DR, who was at JR's at the start. If something went down at JR's, DR might know. There's also the call to DR, which he never got. It seems the Spierers consider DR a friend, but I still wonder what that was all about.
Jupiter812
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Rehashing old stuff is good to do. New or never-before noticed details can surface. For example, out of curiosity I was just searching to see what age JR was last June to see if could drink legally. I'll put it in its on post.
I'd wager that HT said JR ran out of alcohol by the time Lauren and DR arrived because this gets him off the hook for any alcohol she might have consumed there or to deflect any appearance of possible alcohol use. Also, it gives a good reason for the group to leave when it fact it could have gone like this: LS and DR go to JR's for party favors and he says "We have to go to Sports to get it."
12:30 a.m. is early to run out of alcohol on a Thurs night and with an out-of-town guest no less.
You make all good, valid points about HT. I think Gatto was onto her and she knew he wold ask the hard questions while the local media just let her talk and answer base questions.
JeannieC
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