How did she vanish then? And even assuming she did, why in the world would MB and JR say CR showed up with her in the apartment? I sure wouldn't lie to cover up for someone when that could make me a suspect.
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27
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How did she vanish then? And even assuming she did, why in the world would MB and JR say CR showed up with her in the apartment? I sure wouldn't lie to cover up for someone when that could make me a suspect.
doubtingthomas
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Well, at this point no one is a suspect. So, they can say whatever they want. Seems no one is able to dispute what they are saying or their time line. A lot of people saw them together that night. So, wouldn't it be much easier to say she came home with them and left. Would sound a lot better than I don't know where she went. I left her stranded and walked home.
She didn't come home with "them." The two of them (JR and MB) would have to cover for CR in that sort of scenario, because CR was the one who took her to the apartment.
I fail to see any reason JR and MB would be covering for CR all this time. Especially JR who puts himself as the last known person to have seen her before she went missing.
Even if they are not officially called a "suspect" but a person of interest, why in the world would JR lie and put himself as the last person to have seen her if she somehow vanished on the way to the apartment with CR?
Jupiter812
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And that would sound a lot better than saying she lost consciousness or stopped breathing and we freaked out.
this makes sense. it's the only way MB would ever be involved, really. maybe she went unconscious somewhere between the last camera/head bash and 5N. since CR was basically carrying her, he might've thought she was just passed out. then, when they arrived at his place, he and MB freak out because she's not breathing. pass to JR because they don't know what to do/can't believe it/need another opinion.
this isn't an earth-shattering theory, just adds the nuance that maybe she was never alive at 5N the second time. maybe CR throwing up was part of the freak out.
Mergatroid
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To add on to Seagull's thought ... here's a possible scenerio that could explain why CR, MB & JR are covering each other ... feel free to poke holes in it:
Maybe CR and LS go to CR's apartment, MB is done with papers and is ready to party some more (wasn't he at JRs earlier in the evening for the pre-game?) ... and ALL 3 OF THEM GO TO JRs for some additional partying &/or to tell JR about fight at SW, etc; then
LS stops breathing at JRs; then
they freak out & come up with the story that MB put CR to bed, MB escorted LS to JRs; and JR says she left at 4:15.
Just thinking out loud...you guys are better at this than I am.
Let the hole-poking begin!
Maybe CR and LS go to CR's apartment, MB is done with papers and is ready to party some more (wasn't he at JRs earlier in the evening for the pre-game?) ... and ALL 3 OF THEM GO TO JRs for some additional partying &/or to tell JR about fight at SW, etc; then
LS stops breathing at JRs; then
they freak out & come up with the story that MB put CR to bed, MB escorted LS to JRs; and JR says she left at 4:15.
Just thinking out loud...you guys are better at this than I am.
Let the hole-poking begin!
Mahouston69
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Crazy as it sounds in the case of an accidental OD situation, every person who had contact with her in anyway would want to show she was in and out of all of the suspects apartments with witnesses to show she was there and so was her DNA just in case LE finds some.
That leads me to believe them all claiming to see her or get a call from her at around the same time is part of the cover up, successfully confusing us and LE. Perfect case of nobody is charged because they all point suspiciously at each other. So, I think they all know what happened to her (including HT who seemed to be elected spokeswoman for the group and her "she went too far this time", has a finality to it. odd.) I think where she was taken after it was decided what to do with her, was left up to the quiet, quick visit from the friend who left early that morning to go back to... Indianapolis. I'll bet he sold his car/truck by now.
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Look at Mickey Shunick case. All her college friends were basically the last to see her and all within an hour of when she disappeared. They were drinking and could have been smoking. The very last friend, says goodbye around 1:45am, and she leaves alone to bike home. None of Mickey's friends have hired lawyers? all of them have blasted her face and details all over FB, joined every social media site and talk about Mickey constantly to random strangers, raising funds to keep her face in the media and LE searching for her until she is found. That is what innocent, real friends do to help find their friend. Guilty People hide behind expensive lawyers, make all their FB sites private or delete them, never speak their "friend" Lauren's name again and could care less if anybody is looking for her because they know. Makes me sad she had rotten lousy friends.
Jupiter812
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I'm comfortable, in a manner of speaking, with the latest theory of CR/MB/JR covering for themselves and each other. Based on what we know, it makes the most sense to me.
This morning I've been thinking about JR's comment that Lauren confused an iPod for a phone on his counter. After first hearing that, I thought wow, that is believable, but this morning, DUH! If she was so messed up that she confused those two things, how in the hello did she walk without staggering? MAKES NO SENSE. So which is it, JR? Was she compromised or was she sober? Answer: Neither.
This morning I've been thinking about JR's comment that Lauren confused an iPod for a phone on his counter. After first hearing that, I thought wow, that is believable, but this morning, DUH! If she was so messed up that she confused those two things, how in the hello did she walk without staggering? MAKES NO SENSE. So which is it, JR? Was she compromised or was she sober? Answer: Neither.
Jupiter812
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Which friend would this be?
The personality profiles of MB and JR offered online by some of their "friends" early in the investigation suggest that they may have bought into the program because one or more dominant personalities (such as CR and/or HT) pressured them. Having gotten out of trouble in the past because of money and connections and having to make a quick decision in an impaired state may have been factors as well.
I'd say that has to be theory 1A just because of the circumstances and them being the last known, or claiming to be, the last to be with her. Confirm the nearby dumpster was not checked before it was emptied and it gets more interesting. IMHO the landfill search was done much too late to have good odds of success.
But there's still 1B theories because it's hard to believe if it was that simple the three of them would be able to maintain the ruse. It's hard to believe you put yourself into 1A status with LE and then not leave a trail of evidence connecting you to a crime or make inconsistent statements to LE or friends. Also, it's been a myth that they've refused to cooperate. Clearly there's been cooperation to some degree.
If she could walk at all and wanted to leave I could easily see someone letting her leave. They all have to feel comfortable in their area in Bloomington. So, even though JR is trying to make it sound like she didn't stagger we don't know whether that's true or in hindsight he just doesn't want to be seen as letting her leave his place totally trashed.
Then you have to consider if something did happen to her in their presence why was the overriding thought to cover it up rather than call an ambulance? And why would 3 people tie themselves to a crime that no matter what doesn't seem it would've involved all 3?
Of course, nothing else adds up either. Why punch CR and just let him and her leave?
Why does the boyfriend immediately suspect disappearance instead of thinking she'd already been home and left, or stayed at someone else's place the night before? Particularly once he knew she'd left her phone at the bar and that would explain no text replies.
Why suspect the white truck because it appeared to circle the area yet later claim that was due to a discrepancy in the timestamps? Didn't other vehicles appear to circle the block then too? Especially if they looked at video a few hours prior and afterwards which should've shown plenty of vehicles appearing to circle the area.
I am pretty sure JR is from a well off family, has access to lawyers, legal advise, etc. I don't believe for one second he'd make himself the last known person to have seen her alive if she hadn't shown up in his apartment. And kept up this story all this time. I also don't get the impression he and CR are such great friends he would cover up for CR.
What if she did start the walk/stumble back to Smallwood, retracing her and CRs route where he carried her on his back, where the apt or house stairs were where she cracked her head on pavement......and some predator was just waiting for her on that street or in those apts .......who perhaps saw or heard the head crack, previous activity. I say this as I have stated before, windows/screens are open in summer, sounds travel like crazy, especially at 3-4am. I hear drunken groups going to bars at midnite, and stumbling back after closing time....trying to find their cars.....
Jupiter812
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That's a good list and it's just a start.
Nothing adds up. You can say that again...yet hopefully when this case is solved, we will going "Of course, that makes so much sense!" or "I knew it all along!"
Right now, we just aren't privy to enough information. We ask how? or why? but those are unanswerable questions. The fact is we don't know, for example, why one boy might cover for the other. Maybe they all are complicit enough to do so. For me, that is enough of an answer to build upon.
When this case is going to be solved? I don't see it's going anywhere. Everybody seems to be just as clueless as when it started.
There is no body. And I don't see any progression made. No one has been promoted to a "suspect."
There is no body. And I don't see any progression made. No one has been promoted to a "suspect."
A friend of Lauren's wrote this verse more than a year ago from a terrible dream. She would really like for someone to tell her this can't be true and that it was just a dream.
Lauren Dear Lauren
"I couldn't sleep the whole night through.
Three times, I dreamed a dream and each time
I thought it true concerning dearest Lauren
and her so called friends from IU.
She was betrayed, set up, raped, murdered,
and thrown in a lake.
She wanted MEN for friends.
But, they were fake.
Lauren dear Lauren, my love is true.
So, pray tell me now. Where are you?
Clearwater Point is where you will find me.
Please take me home to my family.
Oh Lauren, these MEN will pay with all their worth.
Hunted down like dogs till the end of Earth."
Lauren Dear Lauren
"I couldn't sleep the whole night through.
Three times, I dreamed a dream and each time
I thought it true concerning dearest Lauren
and her so called friends from IU.
She was betrayed, set up, raped, murdered,
and thrown in a lake.
She wanted MEN for friends.
But, they were fake.
Lauren dear Lauren, my love is true.
So, pray tell me now. Where are you?
Clearwater Point is where you will find me.
Please take me home to my family.
Oh Lauren, these MEN will pay with all their worth.
Hunted down like dogs till the end of Earth."
elmorejames
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Not sure that those were Catherine's exact words. I can post the poem if you'd like.....
elmorejames
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You know I wonder the exact thing... Someone would have heard a scream and didn't "Tallboy" scream? Aren't cops around out and about in this town?
Sometimes I wonder if there was a patrol car in the dirt lot. The scent was lost. Perhaps a cop was trying to do the right thing and give her a ride home and she died in his care... What is standard procedure if something like this did occur? And if it did occur, standard procedure surely wasn't executed..
Just a thought.
Since JR claims he watched her walk in one direction, then she didn't take the same route home by which she went to the apartments. Therefore, it would be impossible for someone to wait for her back in the alley where she "cracked her head on a pavement."
Who is Catherine, how does she know Lauren and did she know of the existence of Clearwater Point in Indianapolis before her dreams?
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