IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #28

[Ixchel13]

when JR was telling LE about allowing LS to leave in her intoxicated state, he said something about having her walk for him to see if she seemed sober,
and something about he wasn't going to let her leave if she couldn't walk
in a normal fashion.
This is important if it is true. It has her up, walking, and wanting to leave.
I guess this whole thing is about: did she leave? JR says she did. If she did in fact leave, JR might be lying about her leaving alone.
I think the general consensus is that these guys are lying about something, but we don't know what. We think LE knows more than they're saying, but
we can't be sure.
IMO, the out of town guest(s), now there's some money, privilege and some bad reports of them not being very nice. It makes sense that someone out of their immediate circle would follow Lauren and try to hit on her, go where she's going,etc.
In this day and age you can be in two places at one time easily. You can be
driving somewhere; and someone else can be sitting in a restaurant eating a corned beef sandwich and typing on your phone about it, pretending to be you.
MOO, theories change all the time because it's perplexing. Because it could be some evil person who lurks in the background, watching these kids and their little dramas and eventually, one gets away from their group at just the right moment. I was a Bloomington business owner for ten years. These kids go up and down the street for different nightly events and are twittering and sending pictures of themselves in real time. Normal upstanding people would not be following these events but as we see from BSL, he was somehow tracking women on line.
IMO, someone put her shoes and/or phone at Kilroy's. Never underestimate that someone also could have brought the shoes and/or phone in to Kilroy's
the next morning! Whether an employee or customer.
Both bars closed after LS went missing. I thought it very interesting that right during the searches for LS, Kilroy's closed for remodelling, scattering all the employees and customers that might have seen anything; and also keeping them from getting together in one place and talking about it. Then,
House Bar closed, and scattered all employees and customers as well. Both are now reopened.

 

[VeryVeritas]

when JR was telling LE about allowing LS to leave in her intoxicated state, he said something about having her walk for him to see if she seemed sober,
and something about he wasn't going to let her leave if she couldn't walk
in a normal fashion.
This is important if it is true. It has her up, walking, and wanting to leave.
I guess this whole thing is about: did she leave? JR says she did. If she did in fact leave, JR might be lying about her leaving alone.
I think the general consensus is that these guys are lying about something, but we don't know what. We think LE knows more than they're saying, but
we can't be sure.
IMO, the out of town guest(s), now there's some money, privilege and some bad reports of them not being very nice. It makes sense that someone out of their immediate circle would follow Lauren and try to hit on her, go where she's going,etc.
In this day and age you can be in two places at one time easily. You can be
driving somewhere; and someone else can be sitting in a restaurant eating a corned beef sandwich and typing on your phone about it, pretending to be you.
MOO, theories change all the time because it's perplexing. Because it could be some evil person who lurks in the background, watching these kids and their little dramas and eventually, one gets away from their group at just the right moment. I was a Bloomington business owner for ten years. These kids go up and down the street for different nightly events and are twittering and sending pictures of themselves in real time. Normal upstanding people would not be following these events but as we see from BSL, he was somehow tracking women on line.
IMO, someone put her shoes and/or phone at Kilroy's. Never underestimate that someone also could have brought the shoes and/or phone in to Kilroy's
the next morning! Whether an employee or customer.
Both bars closed after LS went missing. I thought it very interesting that right during the searches for LS, Kilroy's closed for remodelling, scattering all the employees and customers that might have seen anything; and also keeping them from getting together in one place and talking about it. Then,
House Bar closed, and scattered all employees and customers as well. Both are now reopened.

You make some interesting observations. I wasn't aware about Kilroy's closing for remodeling(or forgot about it). Exactly when did it close?

The fact that LS was barefoot is curious. It's curious because no one seems to notice. Was she barefoot when she showed up back at SW with CR(where he got clocked) and she was falling down in the elevator? Was she barefoot in the Alley video when she plopped down face first without blocking? So, it's been said someone may have brought her shoes and phone back to Kilroys... but I don't get that. Clearly LE would know if she were barefoot at the return to SW and slamming down on the ground since it's on video. If not, then we would know someone returned them. Where was she before going to Kilroy's? Did she have shoes on there? It's my understanding that she and CR went to Kilroy's from JR's. That would likely have been captured at least in part on a camera. And so if she were shoeless then, she would have left the shoe's at JR's. But if she had them then, but not on the return to SW after being at Kilroy's is not Kilroy's the only stop in between? At the same time, why bother bringing the shoes and phone back? Seems quite risky. The REAL questions regarding the shoes and phone to me... are:
1) Why was she so out of it that she left them at Kilroy's (or for that matter anywhere)?
2) Why (According to JR) did LS (supposedly) call 2 people looking for her phone, but not call her phone directly to see who might answer?
3) Other than showing how out of it she was, what difference does it make that LS was barefoot and phoneless? How might this change her behavior?

And then on her condition:
1) There is no question from the Alley exodus video that LS slammed down face first without blocking. She was OUT. This is not witness exaggeration, this is a fact. Yet, the witness who saw LS slam her head on the concrete with an audible sound might be exaggerating? How do you exaggerate that? Either she fell over or she didn't. And either it was heard or it was not. I can't imagine hitting my head on concrete so that someone could hear it as being a good thing. I'm pretty sure it would hurt and there would be some damage.
2) I saw nothing of MB saying that LS was injured, barefoot or phoneless. His account of her condition is like someone that did not know her last offical status was on video and so told a big lie about it. Perhaps like, he never even saw her.
3) JR said LS was injured, and phoneless. But, I don't recall any statement about her being barefoot.

 

[akh]

And then on her condition:
1) There is no question from the Alley exodus video that LS slammed down face first without blocking. She was OUT. This is not witness exaggeration, this is a fact. Yet, the witness who saw LS slam her head on the concrete with an audible sound might be exaggerating? How do you exaggerate that? Either she fell over or she didn't. And either it was heard or it was not. I can't imagine hitting my head on concrete so that someone could hear it as being a good thing. I'm pretty sure it would hurt and there would be some damage.

The potential for exaggeration is by not being a first hand witness to the video or hearing the witness' own words in describing the event.

We have no way to judge the validity of the witness' statements because we're hearing someone else's words. Then we extrapolate out from that.

I'm not aware that anything has been released of note about the alley video and I'm doubtful the PI's have even seen that video. That would mean LE is sharing evidence and that would be questionable at best. If the original owner of the video managed to keep a copy then maybe the PI's could've seen that. But if LE confiscated the only video, or computer/HD where it resides then have they shared that with anyone? I'm thinking parents... maybe... possibly in a limited view... to confirm LS is who is on the video.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Things LE must know but wish I did:
1) Who was the last person LS texted or called from her phone and at what time?
2) Who was the last person CR texted or called from his phone and at what time?
3) Did MB make any other calls that night before or after the 3:30 call to JR?
4) Who is the witness that saw / heard LS slam her head on concrete?
5) Why did ZO punch CR?
6) Why did LE not care that ZO battered CR and has it on video? Why no charges?
7) Where did ZO and company go after the altercation?
8) Who else was there with ZO?
9) Who was the visitor(s) at JR's, out of town or otherwise?
10) If LS disappeared from the blind area behind 5N while CR went for help (a theory) Then why would CR make up Amnesia and get MB and JR to cover?
11) Where did the visitor(s) in 5N (all of them not just JR's) park that night?
12) Where did the tenants of 5N park that night?
13) Is anyone a known maker of fake ID's in the circle of POI's and / or friends?
14) Is anyone a known drug dealer in the circle of POI's and / or friends?
15) Did DR actually use Klonopin with LS that night? If so, where did it come from? And did they use any other drugs?
16) Who worked at Kilroy's that night?
17) Who were the patrons that were at Kilroy's during the time that LS was there?
18) There must be a lot of videos of vehicles in the days before and days after LS disappearance. Analyzing those videos for vehicles coming and going, patterns, etc... could yield a list of Vehicles of Interest. Who do those vehicles belong to? Crossing that list, with the list of people at 5N, POI's etc... are there any connections?
19) What does JW think really happened?
20) What does HT think really happened?
21) What do JR's other neighbors (other than CR/MB) think happened to LS, and what do they think of CR/MB/JR?
22) Just who is or was on LE's POI list?
23) Who on that list has a criminal record?
24) Who on that list has no alibi, unusual alibi, weak (like 2 people each saying they were home with no other proof)? For example, can MB prove that at 4:15 he was in his apartment?
25) Who is this person eating corned beef?
26) Who was on patrol (LE) in that area that night? What were they doing around that time, if known?
27) Who was that second call to on JR's phone at 4:15?
28) Did the primary POI's get lawyers even before they knew LS was missing?
or if not, how soon after did they each get lawyers?
29) Who owns 5N?
30) Who does the maintenance for 5N and nearby buildings?
31) Who does the landscaping for 5N and nearby buildings?
32) Who had the hots for LS?
33) Did any of the POI's / circle of friends every have sex with LS (besides JW)?
34) What can be drawn from all forms of social networking; fb, tumbler, foursquare, etc... as well as texting, phone calls, who was linked to who? Any red flags?
35) What else did LE see on the Alley Cam? Did they see LS picked up, dragged or helped back up to her feet?
36) Why was JW not there that night, what was their "fight" about?
Was he at JR's before with LS?
37) What does AB do?
38) What do those 3 friends of LS's at 10th and College think happened to LS? Why did they not let her in?
39) Has Lauren's fake ID and Keycard been found?
40) What exactly did LE dogs signal?
41) What did LS and POI's eat that day and where?
42) Why don't CR, MB, JR seem to have girlfriends? what other females were part of this group / POI's, etc?
43) What locals are tied to JR, CR, MB or other POI's?
44) what does LE want to know the most, other than where LS is right now?

 

[VeryVeritas]

The potential for exaggeration is by not being a first hand witness to the video or hearing the witness' own words in describing the event.

We have no way to judge the validity of the witness' statements because we're hearing someone else's words. Then we extrapolate out from that.

I'm not aware that anything has been released of note about the alley video and I'm doubtful the PI's have even seen that video. That would mean LE is sharing evidence and that would be questionable at best. If the original owner of the video managed to keep a copy then maybe the PI's could've seen that. But if LE confiscated the only video, or computer/HD where it resides then have they shared that with anyone? I'm thinking parents... maybe... possibly in a limited view... to confirm LS is who is on the video.

So you are saying that PI's are "exaggerating" the witness claims that they heard Lauren's head hit the concrete? And by exaggerating, they invented the part about hearing her head actually hit the concrete. You are suggesting that PI's would make an important detail like that up?
Essentially you are saying that the PI's could be outright liars.

Why would they lie?

 

[sammi89]

You make some interesting observations. I wasn't aware about Kilroy's closing for remodeling(or forgot about it). Exactly when did it close?

The fact that LS was barefoot is curious. It's curious because no one seems to notice. Was she barefoot when she showed up back at SW with CR(where he got clocked) and she was falling down in the elevator? Was she barefoot in the Alley video when she plopped down face first without blocking? So, it's been said someone may have brought her shoes and phone back to Kilroys... but I don't get that. Clearly LE would know if she were barefoot at the return to SW and slamming down on the ground since it's on video. If not, then we would know someone returned them. Where was she before going to Kilroy's? Did she have shoes on there? It's my understanding that she and CR went to Kilroy's from JR's. That would likely have been captured at least in part on a camera. And so if she were shoeless then, she would have left the shoe's at JR's. But if she had them then, but not on the return to SW after being at Kilroy's is not Kilroy's the only stop in between? At the same time, why bother bringing the shoes and phone back? Seems quite risky. The REAL questions regarding the shoes and phone to me... are:
1) Why was she so out of it that she left them at Kilroy's (or for that matter anywhere)?
2) Why (According to JR) did LS (supposedly) call 2 people looking for her phone, but not call her phone directly to see who might answer?
3) Other than showing how out of it she was, what difference does it make that LS was barefoot and phoneless? How might this change her behavior?

And then on her condition:
1) There is no question from the Alley exodus video that LS slammed down face first without blocking. She was OUT. This is not witness exaggeration, this is a fact. Yet, the witness who saw LS slam her head on the concrete with an audible sound might be exaggerating? How do you exaggerate that? Either she fell over or she didn't. And either it was heard or it was not. I can't imagine hitting my head on concrete so that someone could hear it as being a good thing. I'm pretty sure it would hurt and there would be some damage.
2) I saw nothing of MB saying that LS was injured, barefoot or phoneless. His account of her condition is like someone that did not know her last offical status was on video and so told a big lie about it. Perhaps like, he never even saw her.
3) JR said LS was injured, and phoneless. But, I don't recall any statement about her being barefoot.

Long response to 1 (sorry)
I just want to again point out that I think a lot of this could be explained by something was really wrong with LS at Kilroy's. I think someone recently brought up the various reports of her condition that weren't confirmed, like foaming at the mouth, and the verified accounts, like being unable to respond to questions directed at her or walk on her own. I think you questioned the altercation being about LS. I still think it was simply because in the last post of mine, the video has the PI saying it began with them asking LS directly if she was okay. I think that group not taking over could be explained by a few different things like: 1) maybe CR reacted quickly and just took off with LS (nothing has been really said about his condition based on the videos from what I recall, except that he was the one doing all the helping, not LS), 2) after punches started getting thrown, they decided it wasn't worth getting into, especially since one of the boys from the group was on the banned list too, etc. I think the real tragedy in that situation is actually that LS came so close to her home, that people DID notice and at least attempt to help, and unfortunately, they just didn't pursue it for whatever reason. I'm sure they didn't think that this would be the outcome, otherwise I think the altercation wouldn't have ended with CR beating it with LS in tow.

I really think a very simple explanation for her shoes and phone being left at the bar is that she was, by both unverified and verified accounts, completely out of it. She might have been getting sick or showing signs that whatever she had taken voluntary or involuntary was not sitting right with her. Instead of searching for phones and shoes, CR decides to take her home and let her sleep it off and/or pawn her off on someone else (roommates). I do agree that he wanted to maybe score with her, but if she was getting sick, he might have decided it just wasn't even worth it.

If he gave her anything, I can see why he decided to take off with her after the altercation. They were causing a scene. Security or the police could get involved, and if she had taken something from him voluntary or involuntary, that might cause some serious issues for him. He decides to just haul her back home with him.

Maybe hitting her head on the way back was the catalyst for the end result. Maybe he gave her something and tried to take her back home, but decided against it after the scene at Smallwood, and, during the trek back to his place, she slams her head. This kind of thing would even apply if LS had voluntarily taken something. If she were sick at Kilroy's and he was aware, decided to take an LS who could not walk or respond from her apartment building when others had stated their concern for her wellbeing, and then she had fallen and slammed her head in his company could pose a few issues for CR, such as:
1) people might think he had done something (hit her, etc.) to LS and he was the cause
2) if he was aware she had taken something on her own accord, he might think LE might think that she had not actually taken it voluntarily, and that he had drugged her.

I can see MB becoming involved in this only if she were still alive when he encountered her and died in his presence. If drugs played a role, whether involuntary or voluntary, I can really see how someone might panic and not call for help immediately. Maybe they argued about whether they should get her help or not, and before a decision was made, she died. CR could guilt him or MB might feel responsible because he didn't take action sooner. Again, this could work in a situation where:
1. CR gave her something - CR is his friend and roommate. He might want to protect him. Additionally, in this scenario, MB has LS die in his presence. He did not pursue help for her either and may have felt that he would be liable.
2. LS took something on her own accord - MB may have felt that LS was responsible for her actions. He may have worried that a case against him would be pursued, etc. etc.

I can see JR becoming involved in hiding the body of a "friend" only if he played some kind of role in her death... aka maybe he provided the drugs to CR, whether he knew CR would give them to LS or not, or maybe he provided them directly to LS and she took them voluntarily. He had a lot on the line - he was starting a company. If he had given something to CR, he might feel liable. If he gave them a voluntary LS, he might feel that she was ultimately responsible for her own decisions and the end result. Either way, he might be able to justify hiding something like this to himself.



2) Why (According to JR) did LS (supposedly) call 2 people looking for her phone, but not call her phone directly to see who might answer?
Do you know when he started saying this? I'm just curious if he stated this AFTER people started really questioning how LS could have forgotten her phone. I always thought the initial story was that he was trying to find her a ride home. Maybe JR said he called these people "looking for her phone" in response to a lot of the public criticism. Sort of like a "hey, she wasn't THAT out of it. After all, she knew she forgot her phone. She was so together she actually called people looking for it!"

3) Her being barefoot and phoneless shouldn't change her behavior. I do see how some might wonder if someone actually took these things back to Kilroy's. If that's the case, LE should at least be aware if she was shoeless based on videos. If one of the POIs address it in any public manner, they would know one way or another if they were lying. Have they ever addressed the shoes? The phone would not be as easy to verify via video. Personally, I think she was sick and left them because she wanted/needed to get home ASAP, and they just were not a priority.

As for your observations on her condition:
Are you implying MB did NOT see her? I really do not see him inserting himself if he did not see her. I do think he might present this story of LS actually being perfectly okay to handle the streets of Bloomington on her own in an effort to make it look like she could have done these things. I'm not sure if he knew the extent of what some of the videos showed. I don't think her falling out of the elevator and not being able to stand, not responding to direct questions to her, slamming her head so hard that there was an audible thud, etc. was revealed at once. Perhaps he should have taken a page from JR and kept quiet until more information was revealed.
I have a bigger problem with the idea that MB would imply LS was actually okay if all other accounts say she was not. If he truly had nothing to hide, why in the world would he not say, "Yeah, she could hardly stand or walk. CR had to help her back. I knew JR was her friend, so I took her there, and I have no idea what happened after." Instead, he says just the opposite. LS helped CR back, put CR back, and invited MB to party, according to MB. I think the bigger question is why he would make these statements when all others accounts simply do not support it.


I think JR's lack of focus on the shoes isn't all that surprising. By saying she had no shoes, he would be inviting criticism in at least 2 areas I can think of:
1. He lets her call people trying to locate her phone, tries convincing her to stay, forces her to take a "walking test" BUT doesn't care that she is shoeless? Seems to go against the stand-up image he is trying to portray.
2. If he brings up the no shoes thing, I think that invites the idea that not only was he not a stand up guy, but he knew very well she was out of it. Girl lost her phone, shoes, and had black eyes forming? But she was okay? Okay.


Sorry for the length again! lol.


(All just opinions)

 

[sammi89]

Things LE must know but wish I did:
1) Who was the last person LS texted or called from her phone and at what time?
2) Who was the last person CR texted or called from his phone and at what time?
3) Did MB make any other calls that night before or after the 3:30 call to JR?
4) Who is the witness that saw / heard LS slam her head on concrete?
5) Why did ZO punch CR?
6) Why did LE not care that ZO battered CR and has it on video? Why no charges?
7) Where did ZO and company go after the altercation?
8) Who else was there with ZO?
9) Who was the visitor(s) at JR's, out of town or otherwise?
10) If LS disappeared from the blind area behind 5N while CR went for help (a theory) Then why would CR make up Amnesia and get MB and JR to cover?
11) Where did the visitor(s) in 5N (all of them not just JR's) park that night?
12) Where did the tenants of 5N park that night?
13) Is anyone a known maker of fake ID's in the circle of POI's and / or friends?
14) Is anyone a known drug dealer in the circle of POI's and / or friends?
15) Did DR actually use Klonopin with LS that night? If so, where did it come from? And did they use any other drugs?
16) Who worked at Kilroy's that night?
17) Who were the patrons that were at Kilroy's during the time that LS was there?
18) There must be a lot of videos of vehicles in the days before and days after LS disappearance. Analyzing those videos for vehicles coming and going, patterns, etc... could yield a list of Vehicles of Interest. Who do those vehicles belong to? Crossing that list, with the list of people at 5N, POI's etc... are there any connections?
19) What does JW think really happened?
20) What does HT think really happened?
21) What do JR's other neighbors (other than CR/MB) think happened to LS, and what do they think of CR/MB/JR?
22) Just who is or was on LE's POI list?
23) Who on that list has a criminal record?
24) Who on that list has no alibi, unusual alibi, weak (like 2 people each saying they were home with no other proof)? For example, can MB prove that at 4:15 he was in his apartment?
25) Who is this person eating corned beef?
26) Who was on patrol (LE) in that area that night? What were they doing around that time, if known?
27) Who was that second call to on JR's phone at 4:15?
28) Did the primary POI's get lawyers even before they knew LS was missing?
or if not, how soon after did they each get lawyers?
29) Who owns 5N?
30) Who does the maintenance for 5N and nearby buildings?
31) Who does the landscaping for 5N and nearby buildings?
32) Who had the hots for LS?
33) Did any of the POI's / circle of friends every have sex with LS (besides JW)?
34) What can be drawn from all forms of social networking; fb, tumbler, foursquare, etc... as well as texting, phone calls, who was linked to who? Any red flags?
35) What else did LE see on the Alley Cam? Did they see LS picked up, dragged or helped back up to her feet?
36) Why was JW not there that night, what was their "fight" about?
Was he at JR's before with LS?
37) What does AB do?
38) What do those 3 friends of LS's at 10th and College think happened to LS? Why did they not let her in?
39) Has Lauren's fake ID and Keycard been found?
40) What exactly did LE dogs signal?
41) What did LS and POI's eat that day and where?
42) Why don't CR, MB, JR seem to have girlfriends? what other females were part of this group / POI's, etc?
43) What locals are tied to JR, CR, MB or other POI's?
44) what does LE want to know the most, other than where LS is right now?

If you haven't, you should read this article. It again supports the idea that ZO punched CR over the wellbeing of LS, CR had the hots for LS, and JW threatened to have JR punched at a party later, so I would take that as he thinks he had something to do with it:

http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...ered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use

 

[akh]

So you are saying that PI's are "exaggerating" the witness claims that they heard Lauren's head hit the concrete? And by exaggerating, they invented the part about hearing her head actually hit the concrete. You are suggesting that PI's would make an important detail like that up?
Essentially you are saying that the PI's could be outright liars.

Why would they lie?

I'm saying we're not independently able to judge the credibility of the witness for ourselves nor are we able to hear a cross examination of the witness to have a clearer picture of the witness' accuracy.

For all I know the witness cringed when he/she heard the PI's describe their interpretation of the statement.

I think your theory or some version thereof is very plausible, but I also think it's possible there's too much assuming facts that are not in evidence. Which means things might not be as cut and dried as presented.

As far as the PI's lying... That wouldn't surprise me. If they thought they could create a narrative that might shake some new information loose then I have no question they would lie. Same for LE. Same for the family.

 

[Mahouston69]

If she has shoes on in the last video of her, then she either 'stumbled' back to Kilroy's after 5N looking for her phone and someone there is responsible for her disappearance and the 'remodeling' was to clean up and hide evidence, Or they were placed there by someone else for a reason.

 

[British]

You make some interesting observations. I wasn't aware about Kilroy's closing for remodeling(or forgot about it). Exactly when did it close?

The fact that LS was barefoot is curious. It's curious because no one seems to notice. Was she barefoot when she showed up back at SW with CR(where he got clocked) and she was falling down in the elevator? Was she barefoot in the Alley video when she plopped down face first without blocking? So, it's been said someone may have brought her shoes and phone back to Kilroys... but I don't get that. Clearly LE would know if she were barefoot at the return to SW and slamming down on the ground since it's on video. If not, then we would know someone returned them. Where was she before going to Kilroy's? Did she have shoes on there? It's my understanding that she and CR went to Kilroy's from JR's. That would likely have been captured at least in part on a camera. And so if she were shoeless then, she would have left the shoe's at JR's. But if she had them then, but not on the return to SW after being at Kilroy's is not Kilroy's the only stop in between? At the same time, why bother bringing the shoes and phone back? Seems quite risky. The REAL questions regarding the shoes and phone to me... are:
1) Why was she so out of it that she left them at Kilroy's (or for that matter anywhere)?
2) Why (According to JR) did LS (supposedly) call 2 people looking for her phone, but not call her phone directly to see who might answer?
3) Other than showing how out of it she was, what difference does it make that LS was barefoot and phoneless? How might this change her behavior?

And then on her condition:
1) There is no question from the Alley exodus video that LS slammed down face first without blocking. She was OUT. This is not witness exaggeration, this is a fact. Yet, the witness who saw LS slam her head on the concrete with an audible sound might be exaggerating? How do you exaggerate that? Either she fell over or she didn't. And either it was heard or it was not. I can't imagine hitting my head on concrete so that someone could hear it as being a good thing. I'm pretty sure it would hurt and there would be some damage.
2) I saw nothing of MB saying that LS was injured, barefoot or phoneless. His account of her condition is like someone that did not know her last offical status was on video and so told a big lie about it. Perhaps like, he never even saw her.
3) JR said LS was injured, and phoneless. But, I don't recall any statement about her being barefoot.

This point of yours above (bold and italic mine) is excellent. That is the first thing most people would do if they lose their phone. Try to call the number to see if anyone would answer. If there was no such a call made, this strongly suggests that the calls to the other 2 people were not made by LS. Something that most of us suspect anyway.

 

[imkeylime]

You make some interesting observations. I wasn't aware about Kilroy's closing for remodeling(or forgot about it). Exactly when did it close?

The fact that LS was barefoot is curious. It's curious because no one seems to notice. Was she barefoot when she showed up back at SW with CR(where he got clocked) and she was falling down in the elevator? Was she barefoot in the Alley video when she plopped down face first without blocking? So, it's been said someone may have brought her shoes and phone back to Kilroys... but I don't get that. Clearly LE would know if she were barefoot at the return to SW and slamming down on the ground since it's on video. If not, then we would know someone returned them. Where was she before going to Kilroy's? Did she have shoes on there? It's my understanding that she and CR went to Kilroy's from JR's. That would likely have been captured at least in part on a camera. And so if she were shoeless then, she would have left the shoe's at JR's. But if she had them then, but not on the return to SW after being at Kilroy's is not Kilroy's the only stop in between? At the same time, why bother bringing the shoes and phone back? Seems quite risky. The REAL questions regarding the shoes and phone to me... are:
1) Why was she so out of it that she left them at Kilroy's (or for that matter anywhere)?
2) Why (According to JR) did LS (supposedly) call 2 people looking for her phone, but not call her phone directly to see who might answer?
3) Other than showing how out of it she was, what difference does it make that LS was barefoot and phoneless? How might this change her behavior?

And then on her condition:
1) There is no question from the Alley exodus video that LS slammed down face first without blocking. She was OUT. This is not witness exaggeration, this is a fact. Yet, the witness who saw LS slam her head on the concrete with an audible sound might be exaggerating? How do you exaggerate that? Either she fell over or she didn't. And either it was heard or it was not. I can't imagine hitting my head on concrete so that someone could hear it as being a good thing. I'm pretty sure it would hurt and there would be some damage.
2) I saw nothing of MB saying that LS was injured, barefoot or phoneless. His account of her condition is like someone that did not know her last offical status was on video and so told a big lie about it. Perhaps like, he never even saw her.
3) JR said LS was injured, and phoneless. But, I don't recall any statement about her being barefoot.

I've always bought the assumed explanation that LS took her shoes off at Sports to play sand volleyball and/or hang out in that area of the bar. While she may have left them unintentionally due to her condition, I also wonder if she left them with the intention of coming back to Sports after getting/doing something/seeing someone at SW. The fight between CR and ZO could have changed things ... maybe CR wanted to return to 5N vs. Sports after that occurred.

 

[monkey222]

The two roomates or classmates? that both saw her wrislet in alley..at different times..in the early hours of am Has always bothered me. Too coincidental. Was one of them AB? Early on it was reported that one saw wristlet on ground....then other person later in am...puts it on rail...but neither connect it with the missing girl. Didnt they know her? Did they go to Kilroys after Smallwood? Were they looking for her early on? Where. .what bar were they returning from separately ¿

 

[Ixchel13]

If she has shoes on in the last video of her, then she either 'stumbled' back to Kilroy's after 5N looking for her phone and someone there is responsible for her disappearance and the 'remodeling' was to clean up and hide evidence, Or they were placed there by someone else for a reason.

yes in order to figure out what happened, we must go to Kilroys. Or even right before she decides to go to Kilroys. I believe they were partying at JRs
and it cleared out early so they decided to go to Kilroys. Here is where there are all kinds of witnesses from vague to people very sure of what they saw Lauren doing. Someone saw her having a heated discussion with a latin or indian type guy; she was apparently telling people what mixture of drugs she was on, according to witnesses incl. employee I think.
A person doesn't have to enter Kilroys to place the shoes/phone back in the sand, you can throw or even place them over the fence.
Also, wanted to make it clear that none of the people that work in any of these bars have been accused of anything, IMO, and the owners as well.
I am saying that the alley leading up to an avant garde, late night club
could have been stalked. And people in Kilroys saw her talking to a strange man. At 3:38, another witness saw a man fitting his description w. a woman over his shoulder.
If Lauren left JR's right after she got there, this could be true. But why would JR lie about almost an hour of time?

 

[AbbeyR]

..All of the POIs have cooperated to some degree. The out of town friend I don't think was named such. Am I allowed to ask Abbey if she is the writer from another board? writer meaning a professional one.

No, I am not a member of any other boards. What website/writer are you talking about?

 

[AbbeyR]

yes in order to figure out what happened, we must go to Kilroys. Or even right before she decides to go to Kilroys. I believe they were partying at JRs
and it cleared out early so they decided to go to Kilroys. Here is where there are all kinds of witnesses from vague to people very sure of what they saw Lauren doing. Someone saw her having a heated discussion with a latin or indian type guy; she was apparently telling people what mixture of drugs she was on, according to witnesses incl. employee I think.
A person doesn't have to enter Kilroys to place the shoes/phone back in the sand, you can throw or even place them over the fence.
Also, wanted to make it clear that none of the people that work in any of these bars have been accused of anything, IMO, and the owners as well.
I am saying that the alley leading up to an avant garde, late night club
could have been stalked. And people in Kilroys saw her talking to a strange man. At 3:38, another witness saw a man fitting his description w. a woman over his shoulder.
If Lauren left JR's right after she got there, this could be true. But why would JR lie about almost an hour of time?

Where did that rumor about the "heated conversation" come from, here? or Gatto? I can't remember.

Re: the 3:38 witness, I think this description was wrong. The PI's seemed pretty certain the person who carried Lauren was CR.

 

[bx2]

This is obviously a long shot, but would an RFID chip in the fake ID she supposedly had with her be any help at all?

http://hotbedinfo.com/2011/11/enhanced-drivers-licenses-can-be-scanned-by-up-to-30-feet/

 

[Ros]

Things LE must know but wish I did:
1) Who was the last person LS texted or called from her phone and at what time?
2) Who was the last person CR texted or called from his phone and at what time?
3) Did MB make any other calls that night before or after the 3:30 call to JR?
4) Who is the witness that saw / heard LS slam her head on concrete?
5) Why did ZO punch CR?
6) Why did LE not care that ZO battered CR and has it on video? Why no charges?
7) Where did ZO and company go after the altercation?
8) Who else was there with ZO?
9) Who was the visitor(s) at JR's, out of town or otherwise?
10) If LS disappeared from the blind area behind 5N while CR went for help (a theory) Then why would CR make up Amnesia and get MB and JR to cover?
11) Where did the visitor(s) in 5N (all of them not just JR's) park that night?
12) Where did the tenants of 5N park that night?
13) Is anyone a known maker of fake ID's in the circle of POI's and / or friends?
14) Is anyone a known drug dealer in the circle of POI's and / or friends?
15) Did DR actually use Klonopin with LS that night? If so, where did it come from? And did they use any other drugs?
16) Who worked at Kilroy's that night?
17) Who were the patrons that were at Kilroy's during the time that LS was there?
18) There must be a lot of videos of vehicles in the days before and days after LS disappearance. Analyzing those videos for vehicles coming and going, patterns, etc... could yield a list of Vehicles of Interest. Who do those vehicles belong to? Crossing that list, with the list of people at 5N, POI's etc... are there any connections?
19) What does JW think really happened?
20) What does HT think really happened?
21) What do JR's other neighbors (other than CR/MB) think happened to LS, and what do they think of CR/MB/JR?
22) Just who is or was on LE's POI list?
23) Who on that list has a criminal record?
24) Who on that list has no alibi, unusual alibi, weak (like 2 people each saying they were home with no other proof)? For example, can MB prove that at 4:15 he was in his apartment?
25) Who is this person eating corned beef?
26) Who was on patrol (LE) in that area that night? What were they doing around that time, if known?
27) Who was that second call to on JR's phone at 4:15?
28) Did the primary POI's get lawyers even before they knew LS was missing?
or if not, how soon after did they each get lawyers?
29) Who owns 5N?
30) Who does the maintenance for 5N and nearby buildings?
31) Who does the landscaping for 5N and nearby buildings?
32) Who had the hots for LS?
33) Did any of the POI's / circle of friends every have sex with LS (besides JW)?
34) What can be drawn from all forms of social networking; fb, tumbler, foursquare, etc... as well as texting, phone calls, who was linked to who? Any red flags?
35) What else did LE see on the Alley Cam? Did they see LS picked up, dragged or helped back up to her feet?
36) Why was JW not there that night, what was their "fight" about?
Was he at JR's before with LS?
37) What does AB do?
38) What do those 3 friends of LS's at 10th and College think happened to LS? Why did they not let her in?
39) Has Lauren's fake ID and Keycard been found?
40) What exactly did LE dogs signal?
41) What did LS and POI's eat that day and where?
42) Why don't CR, MB, JR seem to have girlfriends? what other females were part of this group / POI's, etc?
43) What locals are tied to JR, CR, MB or other POI's?
44) what does LE want to know the most, other than where LS is right now?

20. HT told WISH-TV that she thought it was a random abduction and the the PsOIs were not involved. She is friends with all of them though, and she may be keeping her private opinions to herself.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20071034-504083.

23. You can look up the Indiana criminal records of the PsOI at
mycase.in.gov
JW - Illegal possession of an alcoholic beverage; later disorderly conduct and public intoxication
JR - fake ID and illegal consumption by a minor (twice)
CR - possession of marijuana and illegal consumption by a minor (twice)
DR - public intoxication and illegal consumption by a minor
MB - illegal possession of an alcoholic beverage (twice)
ZO - mostly vehicular offenses - speeding (more than once), windows tint violation (more than once), driving while suspended (more than once), expired license plates, failure to use safety belt, transportation of alcohol by a minor, illegal consumption by a minor, fake id, disorderly conduct, parking ticket
AB - several parking tickets, violating no turn on red sign, fake ID, illegal possession of an alcoholic beverage

34. Before LS disappeared, JW had a quote on his Facebook page from the film Major Payne. The film expressed having the urge to kill. If this was a simple "post a funny quote" on Facebook thing, then it was innocent. If this was a "post a quote that says how you feel" then the meaning is more ominous.

42. Other females were HT, BW, AR. The name of the firm at this link
http://www.wallachbeth.com/ makes me wonder if there is a business connection between the fathers of BW and MB. Could be unrelated people, though. http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...riends-school-reflect-missing-college-student

 

[AbbeyR]

yes in order to figure out what happened, we must go to Kilroys. Or even right before she decides to go to Kilroys. I believe they were partying at JRs
and it cleared out early so they decided to go to Kilroys. Here is where there are all kinds of witnesses from vague to people very sure of what they saw Lauren doing. Someone saw her having a heated discussion with a latin or indian type guy; she was apparently telling people what mixture of drugs she was on, according to witnesses incl. employee I think.
...And people in Kilroys saw her talking to a strange man. At 3:38, another witness saw a man fitting his description w. a woman over his shoulder.
If Lauren left JR's right after she got there, this could be true. But why would JR lie about almost an hour of time?

(snipped, BBM)

I'm going to answer my own question about where this info came from, because there's a bunch of information that comes from different sources, and some are just rumors which aren't corroborated by anything else. Re: the above rumors:

- Gatto wrote a post claiming that "a source close to the investigation" said Lauren was "in a stupor" at kilroys and pouring her heart out about being drunk and high on Coke and Xanax.
http://tonygatto.wordpress.com/2011...-was-thrown-out-of-bar-alone-not-with-friend/

- Gatto also was the first to describe the witness account where a bar manager saw Lauren being thrown over someone's shoulder. If you compare his account with the Lohud version, they are talking about the same witness, but the PI's in the Lohud version name the person in question as CR.

- In a post here, Jupiter heard from an acquaintance who heard from his nephew who works at Kilroys that a hispanic guy approached Lauren at the bar several times asking her if she wanted to do coke. [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7219664&postcount=506"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #25[/ame]

I personally suspect that this rumor was probably a piecing together of other rumors from Gatto's blog etc. (the talking about coke, the 'dark skinned' guy) - but even if it were true, putting this person back in the picture a few hours and locations later seems unlikely to me. MOO

 

[AbbeyR]

Most of the drug rumors come from anonymous sources outside of MSM. This could be for an obvious reason: People don't want to go on the record talking about drugs. But "sources close to the investigation" could also mean people who are connected to the POI, and given worries about civil suits and criminal charges over drugs, there could be several people with an interest in making it seem like Lauren was high all by herself and got drugs from random dark skinned strangers.

 

[Ros]

Preview of Katie Couric's show today

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...lauren-spierer-tell-katie-couric-theyre-angry