IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #32
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Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185
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Ixchel13
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that is exactly what I wanted to say but was too tired and lazy to form the words. And, the civil trial will get the stories, straight from them. It's weird when you hear bits of their stories and you say "Hey, that's not what they said the first time," yet, they never said it the first time. Still lying though.
Unless the lawyer was reading from a prepared statement signed by his client, these impromptu quotes by the attorneys are basically meaningless to knowing what was actually said in an official capacity to not only law enforcement but to the attorneys themselves.
They are just public spin to get in front of the story, prone to misspeaking, purposeful misdirection (on the part of the atty), etc..
You're giving them far too much weight. What matters is what was told to LE on day one, and what is said now. And we don't know either. What the lawyers said while out grandstanding is of little consequence or worth because we don't know how accurate they were or how accurate they were even trying to be.
Hi all - got a response from BPD this weekend regarding my request for info/clarifications; just getting a chance to share it. I asked Captain Qualters approval to post his message exactly as received (copied from gmail):
At least we can say we tried.
At least we can say we tried.
:websleuther:Many many thanks Kpeacock for taking the initiative. Is Captain Q inferring that there may be case related info of some sorts available through FOI requests, that are just not the actual case reports? Can any of our legal sleuthers shed light on this? Thx.
(snipped by me)
Catching up, and wanted to bite for the sake of argument. Let's assume LS did stumble out, and that the 5N's given timeline is some version of truth. Other than JW's alibi, is there any proof that she didn't meet up with JW - either by making it all the way to his place by walking (unlikely, but not impossible?) or by running in to him on the street?
Couldn't she have died, unexpectedly, with him? Her heart gives out, she ODs, he doesn't know why or what happened. If she accidentally died in his presence, how do you think he'd react? Let's say they meet up, argue, and she dies suddenly. Or - they meet up, do a line of coke, argue, and she dies suddenly. No direct fault of his, perhaps. Just accumulation of the night's overindulging, drama and bad decision making.
Does he take her to the hospital? Or does he freak out and try to hide the body?
It's rumored in Btown (completely unsubstantiated) that JW was also dabbling in coke dealing (and by dabbling in, I mean swimming.)
She dies, he freaks out. Hides body somewhere. Plants coke in her room, calls his father, reports her missing. Angry at not knowing what she took that night, hearing gossip of the fight - he and Dad confront CR, to deflect attention. Insert rumor about changing carpet in rental house here. They leave town. He goes to therapy. Mom makes awful statement about LS being a drug addict. All attention is on 5N.
All just speculation for argument's sake. Anyone want to start poking holes/giving thoughts?
I wondered that myself, but can also read it to mean that we could go through FOI and receive the same info others have, which is nothing.
I'm glad to get a response, and a thoughtful one at that. Not unexpected, but at least we know where public information on the case stands.
My concern about the case is that the BPD is taxed to its limit, and that they don't necessarily have the man hours to do the investigation as they would have liked.
Kind of a helpless feeling for the Spierers, I'm sure.
Hmmm ... two things come to mind. One is about the "white powder" allegedly found in LS' apartment. It could also have been HT's. I'm not sure if JW would plant it if he was also potentially dealing it. What goes around has a tendency to come around. But if "white powder" was truly found in HT's room, it gives credence to the probability that this group partied hard.
The second thing: JW is apparently one of the few who knew about LS' long QT syndrome. I hope that would override the drama of the night. However, if he actually supplied something her demise could be linked to, there could be a definite conflict of issue. And he could have been pissed she was hanging out with CR. I don't really buy that, but I'm willing to be wrong.
Where can I find more on the rumor about changing the carpet in the rental house? I missed that memo!
Sure!
1. I still find it unlikely that no one would witness him out and about, whether he was driving or walking, when he was supposedly at home and/or sleeping. I also find it difficult to believe that no one would see LS wandering/staggering/etc. I know whatever happened, happened out of view, but IMO I just find it unlikely but obviously JMO!
2. I agree with imkeylime - if he was dealing, I find it unlikely he'd plant evidence or do anything to insinuate there was an OD. IMO, he would want to make an effort to hide/minimize that possibility, especially if there is any credence to it because he's already the BF. If he's the coke dealing BF I doubt he would start rumors that she OD'd on coke while he was supposedly sleeping at home. JMO.
3. Anything not involving him actually being the cause and knowing he is the cause of death, I am skeptical of. He knew she had a heart problem, she is rumored to have taken harder stuff earlier in the night, she had definitely been drinking, she was definitely intoxicated (degree is sometimes debated), she was hitting her head and had bruises forming on her face. IMO, in any situation where she dies suddenly or starts to OD, he is more likely to take her to the hospital than simply freak and hide the body.
Taking her to the hospital would actually benefit him in a couple ways:
-possibility of LS getting in trouble with her parents, if he felt wronged, and this is in line with what JW's mom said (rudely): he threatened to tell on her.
- he can blame CR/JR/etc. or whoever he thought had supplied the drugs and get them in trouble and certainly ensure that LS' parents knew about them
IMO, if he's the cause, he would have to have confronted her and physically harmed her himself in such a way that he thought he was the ultimate cause of death.
I do think that meeting up and doing coke together might result in him not calling, but if it is clear that she had already been doing stuff (without him), IMO, he would have called 911. I'm also not convinced that she would honestly be voluntarily doing harder stuff at that point in the night, but that is JMO based on her described state.
Still baffles me how quickly the Missing Person report was filed. Within 12 hrs of last being seen. And filed by students. Someone is in the know. Did she fall..passout on street..get hit..but how could this not be on camera? Or made it to a pre dawn neighbor..hood..?house party..and never made it out? I just don't see how the named POIs could have gotten away with a completely clean disposal.
Random post: I truly cannot believe its almost been three years, and very little has been discovered since then. Three years. That's a long time to keep something of this significance a secret. I can only hope and pray that as these boys grow up, and dare I say mature, that someones conscious kicks in.
But really, it's almost unbelievable that so little has been discovered. The visuals of her parents crying at press conferences during those early days in the search will forever be engrained in my mind. Can't even imagine....
But really, it's almost unbelievable that so little has been discovered. The visuals of her parents crying at press conferences during those early days in the search will forever be engrained in my mind. Can't even imagine....
I am not talking about what matters in a trial. Obviously we do not know, and will likely never hear statements directly from the POI, only from their lawyers, who are hired to speak on their behalf, from witnesses who spoke to them and the investigators who interviewed them. Of all of these, statements from a lawyer on behalf of their client are far from meaningless - If they choose to give a public statement, they are deliberately communicating an account on behalf of their client.
It is not insignificant to me that the POI at 5 N -- the last 3 people to see Lauren alive -- told conflicting stories, withheld information and chose to mislead others and the public about what happened the night she went missing.
Anyway, you and I have had this conversation many times, so we can agree to disagree
I don't know that I think JW would have harmed LS intentionally, even if in conflict with her over their relationship. But, if she did make it to his place or he found her after hearing about the fight, and she passed away with him - if he had any illegal dealings with anyone involved in the altercation, the frat, etc - he would have a reason to not want a sudden death of inebriated girlfriend to become public.
Not sure why he would plant drugs, maybe he was looking for them, and didn't find them, instead. There's just the getting the key to her room part of the story to account for in this scenario.
The carpet rumor! Okay, I know I read this, but perhaps it was on a FB thread, or comments on an article. The only mention I can find quickly is on this FB thread (read comment at 11:52 a.m.), though I know I read more in depth "info" on the rumor. Essentially that before JW and his Dad left town, they replaced carpet in his place: https://www.facebook.com/groups/203764669685648/permalink/645956458799798/
Anyone else remember this?
Why would he be replacing carpet in a rented house? If this had actually happened, don't you think it would have gotten a lot of attention, not just popped up in a facebook comment years later? It's not like he would have been able to have a carpet removed undetected in the days following Lauren's disappearance.
It reminds me of those "what happened to the missing sleeping bag?" comments on Gatto's site...
I never considered the angle that if she left and somehow connected with JW things could be hunky dory, they might even do drugs together, and then something happening.
Which also opens the idea she might try to get to him to get drugs if she really left 5N. This assumes that she was not ready for the night to end and had some ability to make that connection happen somehow.
I always assumed the scenario had to be the jilted and jealous boyfriend scenario if she did leave 5N and JW was involved. But this is another possible angle.
I never heard about it that I recall but if it did happen why would it have to be common public knowledge? It wouldn't be that hard to remove carpet under the radar.
We don't know what we don't know...
Can someone post a pic (the closest that we have) of designer jewelery that she was thought to be wearing? Perp may (still) have it? Maybe been pawned etc. ..to jog a memory. I recall it being clunky/unique/modern,/artsy/ easy to spot, desirable. Thx.
http://www.411gina.org/cases/spiererlauren.html
I came across this site while looking for pic of jewelry. Very descriptive. Hope links works.
I came across this site while looking for pic of jewelry. Very descriptive. Hope links works.
In the few days after your girlfriend has gone missing, when police are all over you as a person of interest? And you live in a house with roommates and a landlord? How exactly would someone remove carpet 'under the radar' in that situation?
Not to mention that most people here have probably read almost everything to do with this case. How many people heard this rumor and if you did, what was the source? I think it's totally invented, but JMO.
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