IN - Terry and Darleen Anderson Murder, Mungo, 22 Oct 2005 - #2

[BeavisMom62]

I do know that YES - LE did a voice and poly on both 'A' and 'XBF'.

Most of those tests and other issues/results are kept from the family...

During the interrogation I was told that 'A' said for LE to 'prove' she committed the murders...

Who says that to LE??? Right after their parents are murdered..

Oops, posted my last thought before I read this. Hmm... that would be interesting to know the results of that.

 

[snowme]

True enough, need to have as solid a case as you can before you lay your cards down. And I'm a big cheerleader for LE taking their time and doing things right so once the court & trial ball starts rolling there are no gaps, weak links, etc to cause mistrials or worse "not guilty" verdicts when it should be "guilty"... but

3 years is a good amount of time in anyones book. Rosco, how often are you in contact with LE? Do you check in weekly with them? And how much of an uproar does the community make -- are they, in general, letting time sweep this away or are they crying out for change in their officials or expressing disappointment in the length of time it has taken to make any headway into this unsolved double murder in their community? Not to mention the devestation of meth seeming to take control of the community. Not just trying to incite anger here but if this were my community - and as a US citizen it in a distant way is - I would be down their throats on a regular basis about getting loose ends tidied up and regaining control of the community's safety & welfare.

By maps I can see that it's a somewhat rural (if not outright rural) area - I'm sure like all places these days manpower is short and money is tight - but these are not valid excuses to take their dear sweet time. I don't know how many murders that community has within a year but I have the feeling they are not inundated with them as a more urban area would be. If LE is reading I hope they'll understand that it's not just one lady in Chicago who is seeking justice for Terry & Darleen. I hope they'll realize that alot of people from alot of places are seeking that justice for them and this is not going to be forgotten over time.

I know it's probably not the only thing they've got on their desks - but it is on their desks! (And just in case they are reading -- keep tightening the noose around that drug problem up there and it will probably lead right into information on Terry & Darleen's murders.)

I guess this turned into a rant of sorts, for that I'm sorry, but "A" being so recently bonded out for one more infraction just really takes the cake! :furious:

This is the biggest issue LE is facing.. and they have reminded me at least 100 times - -
(quote)
You can suspect a lot on people in a lot of thing's, But you have to prove it in the court system for any of it to count..

- DA's office can arrest - already told me that MANY times.... but there HAS to be proof and evidence for trial.. without... it's NEVER going to go to trial...:behindbar

Local LE is actually using State for help w/ this case. AND ... top that off... state using 'spare - time' to work this case...

HUGE dissapointments everyday... and more more time ticks away... less and less chance for JUSTICE....

Rosco

 

[snowme]

sorry for being off topic but Cubby's sig line and avatar (which I adore, good ol' charlie brown!) prompted me to say to you Chicago fans.... sorry about your Cubbies... maybe next time, huh?!

I watched game 3 and tho I'm not a Cubs fan it was hard to see their faces in the dugout at the end. As a baseball fan disappointment registers as disappointment no matter what club it is. :blowkiss:

 

[gaia227]

ITA, DK. I know its been said that the drugs have affected her, but you can't be high 24/7. What happens when she comes down? Is there any remorse there at all? Even if there is no one to witness it? I wonder what goes on in her mind. What are the thoughts in her mind at night before she drops off to sleep? Does she have nightmares? The photos are very strange. I just think she left them up to appear not guilty and caring, but it would have to affect her. Wouldn't it? This whole thing is so sad and frustrating.

Hi BeavisMom - unfortunately a lot of meth, cocaine and heroine addicts are always high. Not high in the sense we think of it but always under the influence of the drug. A true addict almost always has their drug in their system because without it they go into severe withdrawal in a matter of hours. The first thing a heroine addict does when they wake up is shoot up because they cannot even function without. Thye feel SO ****ty without it it is dehibilitating. A drug addicts world is deepy simplified because the only thing they need in their life is that drug. As long as they know they have their meth, heroine, etc they are okay - that is all they need. If they don't have it they will go to great lengths to get it - it almost becomes like tunnel vision, an obsession, a compulsion - their world is narrowed to one goal - getting that drug. For someone who has never experienced withdrawal it is very hard to understand that singular thinking because you don't understand just how badly that person feels.

Most addicts get to a point where they just maintain. They don't do the drug anymore to get high. They do it because their body, their brain, has become so dependent on it that they have to have it to just feel normal. A heroine addict who is sick from withdrawl will shoot up and they will just normal - like you or I do when we get up in the morning.

I am sure when A wakes up in the morning she doesn't isn't high but if she is an addict then she isn't thinking about anything except finding her drug and using it so she can feel normal again.
I think if A goes through a treatment program, gets through the pain of withdrawal, remains clean for weeks, months, then I think we may see her begin to deal with all of this. If she has something to feel guilty about then it is going to take her getting completely clean before she can feel that. Right now, she is numbing herself everyday.

In case it hasn't become obvious I have some personal experiences with dealing with drug addiction.......

 

[Rosco]

Hi BeavisMom - unfortunately a lot of meth, cocaine and heroine addicts are always high. Not high in the sense we think of it but always under the influence of the drug. A true addict almost always has their drug in their system because without it they go into severe withdrawal in a matter of hours. The first thing a heroine addict does when they wake up is shoot up because they cannot even function without. Thye feel SO ****ty without it it is dehibilitating. A drug addicts world is deepy simplified because the only thing they need in their life is that drug. As long as they know they have their meth, heroine, etc they are okay - that is all they need. If they don't have it they will go to great lengths to get it - it almost becomes like tunnel vision, an obsession, a compulsion - their world is narrowed to one goal - getting that drug. For someone who has never experienced withdrawal it is very hard to understand that singular thinking because you don't understand just how badly that person feels.

Most addicts get to a point where they just maintain. They don't do the drug anymore to get high. They do it because their body, their brain, has become so dependent on it that they have to have it to just feel normal. A heroine addict who is sick from withdrawl will shoot up and they will just normal - like you or I do when we get up in the morning.

I am sure when A wakes up in the morning she doesn't isn't high but if she is an addict then she isn't thinking about anything except finding her drug and using it so she can feel normal again.
I think if A goes through a treatment program, gets through the pain of withdrawal, remains clean for weeks, months, then I think we may see her begin to deal with all of this. If she has something to feel guilty about then it is going to take her getting completely clean before she can feel that. Right now, she is numbing herself everyday.

In case it hasn't become obvious I have some personal experiences with dealing with drug addiction.......

What I just don't understand is 'A' began her drug abuse years before their murders. Unknown to me or DH and DB... We all just visited that July and had a great visit. We did not see any signs of drug abuse or family anger or issues - outside the normal...(( her/XBF not building a coop for the roosters when asked....ect.. dumb stuff...))

Something happend and made the change in her... something.... OR someone.. and I truly believe it was the XBF.

I still have a very hard time believing that she would/could not have any feelings for her murdered parents.

.. but her actions speak very very loud!

 

[Rosco]

snowme... I swear i am beside myself with LE. I do keep very close contacts with LE...

DB and I have spoken at lengh regarding the case as far as evidence and WHY... - this is what we came to a conclusion -

- LE is waiting for someone to walk into the office and hand them the 'smoking gun'....

-or-

- LE is waiting for someone to get arrested and start to talk...

There is nothing as far as forensics' ... no fingerprint... no weapon.. nobody seen anything.. nobody is talking... SOOOO you DONT have a case..... and that TRULY sucks.

That Larry Mack guy that moved into the house right after the murders is now dead. He died about a year ago. At the time of the murders and him moving into the house - he was one of the main Meth/Drug dealers in the county... SOOO.. now he is gone.. now what???

Snowme... I really get soooooo depressed as to WHY LE is not moving.. or working this DOUBLE homicide.... Like I said before - local is NOT working the case in full - they have State LE working the case (helping out) and on their 'spare' time.

I just don't know anymore.... I'm just the lady who's father was murdered that won't shut-up and forget. MOST of the locals don't even come to any of the memorials that I have planned. Nobody goes to the fishing tourny... I get NOTHING from locals with help or advise.. or encourgment.

I can only believe that locals are afraid... or they too want to just brush it under the rug and forget....

I live in cook county (chicago) and on any given year there is an average of 600 homicides - just in cook county. LaGrange has had one in a decade and NEVER had a double homicide in their county.. It appears to me that they are working their drug stats and not this homicide.. and I can't do anything about that...

There has been a change in Sheriff since... and still nothing is done or showing up and new info..

It just SUCKS.. Hard to keep an upbeat feeling with the case when there is NOTHING to even work with.. when LE is waiting for someone to waltz right up to them and HAND them the murder/s...

THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN....

Rosco

True enough, need to have as solid a case as you can before you lay your cards down. And I'm a big cheerleader for LE taking their time and doing things right so once the court & trial ball starts rolling there are no gaps, weak links, etc to cause mistrials or worse "not guilty" verdicts when it should be "guilty"... but

3 years is a good amount of time in anyones book. Rosco, how often are you in contact with LE? Do you check in weekly with them? And how much of an uproar does the community make -- are they, in general, letting time sweep this away or are they crying out for change in their officials or expressing disappointment in the length of time it has taken to make any headway into this unsolved double murder in their community? Not to mention the devestation of meth seeming to take control of the community. Not just trying to incite anger here but if this were my community - and as a US citizen it in a distant way is - I would be down their throats on a regular basis about getting loose ends tidied up and regaining control of the community's safety & welfare.

By maps I can see that it's a somewhat rural (if not outright rural) area - I'm sure like all places these days manpower is short and money is tight - but these are not valid excuses to take their dear sweet time. I don't know how many murders that community has within a year but I have the feeling they are not inundated with them as a more urban area would be. If LE is reading I hope they'll understand that it's not just one lady in Chicago who is seeking justice for Terry & Darleen. I hope they'll realize that alot of people from alot of places are seeking that justice for them and this is not going to be forgotten over time.

I know it's probably not the only thing they've got on their desks - but it is on their desks! (And just in case they are reading -- keep tightening the noose around that drug problem up there and it will probably lead right into information on Terry & Darleen's murders.)

I guess this turned into a rant of sorts, for that I'm sorry, but "A" being so recently bonded out for one more infraction just really takes the cake! :furious:

 

[Debbie Miller]

Maybe you need to put some heat under them. You could contact the governor of the state. You need one investigator in that department that is going to help you.

As far as "no evidence" at the scene, that is hard to believe due to the way it all went down. The killer may have thought they cleaned it all up but somewhere lies the missing link.

I found something in the first subforum of this case, I am going to double check to make sure I read it right.

I think the dead man holds the key, but don't give up. Your dad and Darlene are counting on you.

 

[Debbie Miller]

I was told by LE about shoe prints. No finger prints - as far as LE told.

My question is do they have shoe prints?

Shoe prints are a lot like dna, they are unique as in no two people will make the same shoe impression.

 

[gaia227]

What I just don't understand is 'A' began her drug abuse years before their murders. Unknown to me or DH and DB... We all just visited that July and had a great visit. We did not see any signs of drug abuse or family anger or issues - outside the normal...(( her/XBF not building a coop for the roosters when asked....ect.. dumb stuff...))

Something happend and made the change in her... something.... OR someone.. and I truly believe it was the XBF.

I still have a very hard time believing that she would/could not have any feelings for her murdered parents.

.. but her actions speak very very loud!

Roscoe - I hope I did not offend. I didn't mean to imply that A doesn't have any feelings about her parents murder. What I was trying to say is that if she is an addict the drugs are numbing her feelings which partly explains her lack of outward compassion and it also serves as something else to focus on that can become very encompassing which serves as a distraction. I didn't mean to imply that she doesn't care - I really think she does. I went back and read some of her comments on the topix board and despite some of the things she said and lies she told I thought she mostly came off as being sincere, frustrated with the lack of progress.

How long had A and the XBF been dating before the murders happened? I think her XBF in combonation with escalated drug use is very much the reason for her drastic personality change. I am making an assumption here so please correct me if I am wrong- XBF was a regular user when A began dating him. 'A' began to use too but not to the point where she was becoming physically and mentally dependent on it and because of that she was able to carry on normally. After her parents murder her drug use moved into a different level - she began using everyday and inevietably became addicted and that combined with the tragedy of her parents murder has been the catalyst for her life's downhill fall.

With that being said I still think 'A' has information/knowledge about what happened that night......and possibly the guilt she is carrying beccause of this is another reason she started using drugs more heavily. Escapism - the number one reason people start using.

 

[snowme]

... this is what we came to a conclusion -

- LE is waiting for someone to walk into the office and hand them the 'smoking gun'....

-or-

- LE is waiting for someone to get arrested and start to talk...

From everything I've read here & at topix (including articles), I hate it but, it's the impression or vibe that's given off, isn't it?! arggh

... There is nothing as far as forensics' ... no fingerprint... no weapon.. nobody seen anything.. nobody is talking... SOOOO you DONT have a case..... and that TRULY sucks.

I'm jumping ahead of my own reply but I see someone has posted before me with regard to this. I'm just not buying that - that there was nothing. I could buy, I'd be angry as all get out but I could buy it, that there was and they screwed it up... but with the simple and least detailed account of what took place there says there was plenty of forensic evidence. Don't ever lose sight of the fact that there was indeed a weapon... even if LE doesn't have it/them in their possession... there most definitely was one! And depending on what it was it is not always the easiest thing to dispose of 100% for eternity. And add the fact that evidence may still be ON it even if the killer/s tried to obliterate it.

One thing that bugs me if they've actually verbalized it to you as quoted there (or close to it) is them making a point of saying no fingerprints. Oh except for those that would be in the home or around the property due to living there or coming and going there. Well... considering certain peoples actions coupled with there being only certain peoples fingerprints wouldn't that be just the set of prints you'd be expecting to see there?! It makes it seem as if LE is saying 'well there must be an outsider's prints here'... just seems confusing and close-minded. Even if it's just something that tumbled off LE's lips.

Rosco, if they ever say to you that "YOU" don't have a case you lean right in and correct them and say "no sir, it's you who seems to not have a case."

... That Larry Mack guy that moved into the house right after the murders is now dead. He died about a year ago. At the time of the murders and him moving into the house - he was one of the main Meth/Drug dealers in the county... SOOO.. now he is gone.. now what???

Hmmm... that is a shame if he was privy to anything. Do you know how he died?

... I really get soooooo depressed as to WHY LE is not moving.. or working this DOUBLE homicide.... Like I said before - local is NOT working the case in full - they have State LE working the case (helping out) and on their 'spare' time.

Again, I'm jumping ahead to what someone else posted before me... have you attempted to go higher up. Just to see what exactly may be an avenue for stoking the fires under them? How about the state's attorney general? http://www.in.gov/attorneygeneral/

I just don't know anymore.... I'm just the lady who's father was murdered that won't shut-up and forget. MOST of the locals don't even come to any of the memorials that I have planned. Nobody goes to the fishing tourny... I get NOTHING from locals with help or advise.. or encourgment.

I can only believe that locals are afraid... or they too want to just brush it under the rug and forget....

No you're not "just" anything... and never forget it's your Dad's & Darleen's voices that are crying out... thru you not "shutting up" and your loved ones and good friends and us here that have come to know you... it's their voices and they're going to be heard!

I live in cook county (chicago) and on any given year there is an average of 600 homicides - just in cook county. LaGrange has had one in a decade and NEVER had a double homicide in their county.. It appears to me that they are working their drug stats and not this homicide.. and I can't do anything about that...

Well there you go... I get two things out of that info.... one, unfortunately they've probably little career experience to draw on and definitely need that state assistance - all they can get! and two, since they are fortunate enough to not have a crazy backlog of homocide to contend with they should have enough time to focus on this double murder! The drug stuff probably does keep them busy but there's drugs intermingled in this case so they go hand in hand. At the beginning of writing this my expectations from them was lowering.... with this info and my thinking... I'll not give them that free pass... my expectations bar has been raised right back up.

There has been a change in Sheriff since... and still nothing is done or showing up and new info..

It just SUCKS.. Hard to keep an upbeat feeling with the case when there is NOTHING to even work with.. when LE is waiting for someone to waltz right up to them and HAND them the murder/s...

THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN....

Rosco

It does suck, no denying that. You keep your chin up girl... rest it on someone's shoulder when necessary!! There's no such thing as a perfect crime -- they always leave something behind. We've heard that dozens of times, right? It's true, and for the most part in this case, imo, it hinges on LE not falling into that thinking of "there's no evidence" and that that which was there was there because it was supposed to be there. That is not typical cop thinking - it's not even quizative citizen thinking!! And it shouldn't be tolerated.

I've written a novel...egads! Sorry :blowkiss:

Justice for Terry & Darleen in 2008!

 

[snowme]

I like the way you think Debbie. I think it's definitely time to investigate higher up the chain. And you're so right about the shoe prints... the wear on them is unique to each individual.

wouldn't it be interesting to know who's print it was? Especially since certain people did not come into the house that morning - regardless of screams!

 

[snowme]

Couple questions...

How long was it after the murders did the xbf -or there's actually two now that are x's right- that worked at the same tree place with Terry... how long was it after that they started up their own business?

Who was the original business's owner - the one Terry worked for? Where my train of thought is on this is this: would there have been any talk among other workers or the business owner, little quiet talk. Or maybe they overheard something before or after the murders.

It's a little nugget on the timeline that irks me.... that seemingly so quickly, almost on Terry's back if you will, that someone else starts their own business with new chipper and bucket trucks... and whatever else. I'm sure that is quite a start up cost to contend with. I know A got the inheritance but what does all that start up stuff tally up to? Was it in her name, paid for with cash.... again, it just kinda irks me. Especially now that we know that was all in vain and was evidently a waste? Or am I wrong and that business is somehow still in operation?

 

[Debbie Miller]

The K-9 dogs raises another question. They are brought in on many types of crimes and follow the scent of the perp or perps.

When someone is in the commission of a crime they produce more amino acids (sweat) so the odor is way stronger. This leads me to believe that the crime happened the night before especially with the murder(s) "trying" to clean the scene.

As for "cleaning the scene" with the type of wounds inflicted this would produce major splatter and they didn't see where every droplet went.

"A's" comment to 911 about the gun shot, I think this was the plan and something changed that she was unaware of the change because she most likely wasn't there.

 

[Dark Knight]

The K-9 dogs raises another question. They are brought in on many types of crimes and follow the scent of the perp or perps.

When someone is in the commission of a crime they produce more amino acids (sweat) so the odor is way stronger. This leads me to believe that the crime happened the night before especially with the murder(s) "trying" to clean the scene.

As for "cleaning the scene" with the type of wounds inflicted this would produce major splatter and they didn't see where every droplet went.

"A's" comment to 911 about the gun shot, I think this was the plan and something changed that she was unaware of the change because she most likely wasn't there.

There was no shortage of blood left behind. Rosco's hubby cleaned some of it up, if I remember right. The problem is, all of the blood belonged to the victims, so there was nothing to trace. And other DNA that may have belonged to "A" or her XBF or whomever would have been all over the house long before the murders, since they were there alot. There would have been copious amounts of blood on the killers, of course, but there was plenty of time to burn the clothes, or plenty of land to bury them. So you can see the difficulties CSI would be facing.

Maybe a better question would be, did LE find any DNA belonging to someone not known to the family. A stranger would likely leave some DNA behind, I'd think, given there were two crime scenes quite a ways apart. If the answer is no, does that mean the killers had to be known by the family?

 

[Dark Knight]

I like the way you think Debbie. I think it's definitely time to investigate higher up the chain. And you're so right about the shoe prints... the wear on them is unique to each individual.

wouldn't it be interesting to know who's print it was? Especially since certain people did not come into the house that morning - regardless of screams!

It might have been useful right after the murders, but you could not expect to match up shoe prints 3 years after the fact. The shoes would be long gone, and actually, given the amount of blood, I'd say they were destroyed along with the other clothes the killers wore. Actually, I don't even recall hearing if there were shoe prints or tracks, and it would surprise me if there weren't any. Maybe Rosco already said so on this thread, sorry if I missed it.

 

[missscarlett]

Just the fact that there is lack of outside DNA should give LE to do a little more "internal" investigating. As a professional, shouldn't they find it a bit odd that the ONLY DNA came from people who are always there? Obviously that's the people they need to start with. Waiting for the "smoking gun to fall in their lap" is a rediculous concept. IMO they need to get off their butts and do their job. It's been 3 years already! Sorry this turned into a bit of a rant, I just keep hoping every day when I open this thread I will find Terry and Darleen will have gotten the justice they deserve.

 

[gaia227]

Can't the La Grange PD ask the FBI to help investigate? Have you asked them about that Roscoe?

The fact that there was no foreign DNA left at the scene is very telling. Surely LE recognizes that. There are only five people whose DNA would be expected to be there - Terry, Darlene, Amanda, Boyfriend and Grandma. Two of those people are deceased, one of them is elderly and not a good suspect. That leaves two people - two young, healthy, strong people.

I don't understand why when LE has warrants out for her and finally arrest her the judge doesn't deny her bail, they hold her as long as they can in an attempt to break her down a little and then question her relentlessly.

I never understand this about small town PD. They have a double-homicide on their hands -you would think they would be busting their balls to try and get it solved and prove that even though they are small they are efficient, good at their jobs and worthy of respect.

 

[Debbie Miller]

It might have been useful right after the murders, but you could not expect to match up shoe prints 3 years after the fact. The shoes would be long gone, and actually, given the amount of blood, I'd say they were destroyed along with the other clothes the killers wore. Actually, I don't even recall hearing if there were shoe prints or tracks, and it would surprise me if there weren't any. Maybe Rosco already said so on this thread, sorry if I missed it.

I wasn't suggesting to "try and match up the shoe print 3 years later." This should have been done when it was found. Sure the perp(s) could have burned all their clothing including the shoes, but when they were questioned was anything of their's taken to do a "process of elimination?" This is pretty much procedure on a crime scene. It is likely that they had already burned it because there was enough time between the crime and the crime being discovered.

I found mention of shoe prints, no fingerprints in thread # 59 or 60 of the first discussion of this case. I was just trying to ask - Am I understanding this to say, yes to shoe prints?

 

[Rosco]

Maybe you need to put some heat under them. You could contact the governor of the state. You need one investigator in that department that is going to help you.

As far as "no evidence" at the scene, that is hard to believe due to the way it all went down. The killer may have thought they cleaned it all up but somewhere lies the missing link.

I found something in the first subforum of this case, I am going to double check to make sure I read it right.

I think the dead man holds the key, but don't give up. Your dad and Darlene are counting on you.

- All right - I have plenty to reply too.. and i hope i get everyone...

I am going to use that link that was sent here and try and light a fire.

FBI is/was on the case. Same with ATF as some weapons of dad's were missing.
I hired a PI (thru my firm) and this person had well over 30yrs of service and history with LE. This was 6months after the murders. I could not afford his services after my firm let me choose if I still wanted to retain personally. I could not afford. I could still hire the services of PI - but choose a reward iof $20,000 is a better shot at justice than a PI... who LE does NOT have to work with. The PI that was hired did personally know the Sheriff (at the time of the murders) and spoke to him regarding the case behind closed doors.
PI was actually hired to look for the DNA that was taken from the crime and get it processed. There was an article some 4months after the murders that the DNA is being held up and I wanted it processed faster.. and PI was hired to get that moving..

Ahhhh - let me move on to the next post..

 

[Rosco]

I was told by LE about shoe prints. No finger prints - as far as LE told.

My question is do they have shoe prints?

Shoe prints are a lot like dna, they are unique as in no two people will make the same shoe impression.

YES - there were shoe prints left at the scene. NO FINGER PRINTS -

LE asked XBF and 'A' for their shoes... XBF had a really hard time with that (i do remember) and DB and I were confused as to why... LE did take them for a few days but then released them back to XBF...

I recall 'A' having blood on her shoes - on the side of her shoes. This was well after the murders I found this out... and it was brushed off as she was walking up close to her mother when she was found her in the house and that was how the blood got on her shoes. I seen the blood myself..

DH said he didn't have any blood on him/shoes - and he was the one who cleaned up the living room where Darleen's body was found and the barn where Dad's body was found. :waitasec::waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:

Clean your shoes? Get your mom's blood off your shoes?