Jahi’s family wants her declared 'alive again’

[Hiandmighty]

When your brain starts disintegrating.... It is time to call it a day.

 

[Hiandmighty]

I still can't believe the gall of showing that bran scan. The atrophy is stunning. (Notice the space between the skull and the brain itself)...

 

[seattlechiquita]

I still can't believe the gall of showing that bran scan. The atrophy is stunning. (Notice the space between the skull and the brain itself)...

I hear you. I am not even a medical/health professional and I can tell it looks like brain pudding. This has gone too far. If they want to keep a corpse at home, more power to them --- can't they just leave the world alone? Spreading misinformation should be criminal.

 

[i.b.nora]

Its been bugging me for days so I finally looked it up for myself.

Christopher B Dolan has made two contributions THIS YEAR to the "Your Neighbors for Patient Safety" organization which is the NO on 46 group for a grand total of $75,000.

01/29/2014. $50,000
06/23/2014. $25,000

http://cal-access.ss.ca.gov/Campaig...px?id=1293525&session=2013&view=contributions

If you need to check it yourself, check the 'contributions made' box to see both contributions come up. The amount is correct at the ballotpedia site as I first posted.

One of the purposes of the proposition is to raise the cap on malpractice lawsuits to 1.1 million dollars. What could be more 'mal practisy' then to declare a person brain dead and issue a death certificate only to have the death reversed almost a year later.

Hocus pocus.

 

[Ausgirl]

There have been many cases where people missing *huge* amounts of brain tissue have led normal lives.

75% missing: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12301-man-with-tiny-brain-shocks-doctors.html#.VDR1Kq41PSg
Almost 50% missing: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...f-brain-astonishes-doctors-teaching-walk.html
50% missing: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/g...-missing-lives-normal-life-researchers-amazed
Absent cerebellum: http://www.newscientist.com/article...found-to-have-no-cerebellum-in-her-brain.html

It goes on and on.. Has anyone proven yet there's 100% NO brain activity? If there's even a small amount, and the girl isn't in distress, *why not* keep her alive, wait and see? Who is it harming? Of course there's the issue of money.. I feel ill reading huge concerns over how many dollars this poor child is costing the nation... when there's far bigger and way less worthy drains on the taxpayer dollar to cry about!!

Poor kid.. wherever she ends up, I hope she's treated with the kindness and dignity every child deserves. Living or dead.

 

[katydid23]

There have been many cases where people missing *huge* amounts of brain tissue have led normal lives.

75% missing: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12301-man-with-tiny-brain-shocks-doctors.html#.VDR1Kq41PSg
Almost 50% missing: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...f-brain-astonishes-doctors-teaching-walk.html
50% missing: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/g...-missing-lives-normal-life-researchers-amazed
Absent cerebellum: http://www.newscientist.com/article...found-to-have-no-cerebellum-in-her-brain.html

It goes on and on.. Has anyone proven yet there's 100% NO brain activity? If there's even a small amount, and the girl isn't in distress, *why not* keep her alive, wait and see? Who is it harming? Of course there's the issue of money.. I feel ill reading huge concerns over how many dollars this poor child is costing the nation... when there's far bigger and way less worthy drains on the taxpayer dollar to cry about!!

Poor kid.. wherever she ends up, I hope she's treated with the kindness and dignity every child deserves. Living or dead.

How do you treat someone with kindness when they are dead? I think that is the point here. Who does it harm? The family themselves, imo. The other siblings, who need some attention and support. The chance for them to truly grieve their sisters DEATH.

They are not really keeping her 'alive', imo. They are keeping her in a kind of limbo. She has no life. She is not following her mothers commands. She is just slowly decomposing. Every so slowly. I think it is heartbreaking.


ETA: also, the examples that you linked are examples where the remaining portion of the brain was FUNCTIONING. She has no brain function.

 

[TJL]

There have been many cases where people missing *huge* amounts of brain tissue have led normal lives.

75% missing: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12301-man-with-tiny-brain-shocks-doctors.html#.VDR1Kq41PSg
Almost 50% missing: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...f-brain-astonishes-doctors-teaching-walk.html
50% missing: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/g...-missing-lives-normal-life-researchers-amazed
Absent cerebellum: http://www.newscientist.com/article...found-to-have-no-cerebellum-in-her-brain.html
Has anyone proven yet there's 100% NO brain activity? If there's even a small amount, and the girl isn't in distress, *why not* keep her alive, wait and see? Who is it harming? Of course there's the issue of money.

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.

I think your signature is highly appropriate. Do you mind if I borrow it in my response? Thank you!

Knowledge is knowing a dead brain decomposes, and, begins to lose portions of its mass. Wisdom is not putting it in the same category as living people who have portions of their live brain either traumatically removed, or genetically missing.

 

[Hiandmighty]

Yes, Jahi will never have anything other than what she has right now, which is a dead body that "mad scientists" are pumping 100% support into.

My outrage is saved for the crazy people trying to raise a dead body....... And trying to pull this stunt on the general public.

 

[katydid23]

I think your signature is highly appropriate. Do you mind if I borrow it in my response? Thank you!

Knowledge is knowing a dead brain decomposes, and, begins to lose portions of its mass. Wisdom is not putting it in the same category as living people who have portions of their live brain either traumatically removed, or genetically missing.

:welcome: to WS. :fireworks:

 

[nrdsb4]

Who is it harming? Of course there's the issue of money.. I feel ill reading huge concerns over how many dollars this poor child is costing the nation... when there's far bigger and way less worthy drains on the taxpayer dollar to cry about!!

It does sometimes seem crass to talk about financial costs of care and how those concerns should direct treatment. However, what purpose does it serve to pretend that financial resources are unlimited? The fact of the matter is that they are most definitely limited, so we are forced to prioritize how we will spend the collective resources that are available. There are many controversies in how they are allocated amongst patients who are alive and capable of enjoying life and even contributing to society. If we are now forced by courts to share these limited resources with brain dead individuals who do not have the capacity to enjoy life or contribute to society in any way, simply to appease the families that don't want to let them go, then people who could benefit from these funds will be denied them. Just as in our own households, money is not a limitless commodity and sometimes, no, OFTEN we must make the difficult choices to say yes to this and no to that.

 

[BuzzieCat]

Money is a factor in health care so I'm not sure why it's taboo to talk about it in relation to Jahi. Money affects the health care that non-brain-dead patients receive all the time in this country so why is it surprising that it might also affect the Wakefields?

 

[Hiandmighty]

Does anyone know how much a ventilator alone costs per month? I would be surprised if Jahi's care is over 100,000$ a month.

 

[K_Z]

I think your signature is highly appropriate. Do you mind if I borrow it in my response? Thank you!

Knowledge is knowing a dead brain decomposes, and, begins to lose portions of its mass. Wisdom is not putting it in the same category as living people who have portions of their live brain either traumatically removed, or genetically missing.

I think it's also necessary to mention that there aren't people living "normal lives", or even living any kind of "living", who are missing their entire midbrain, corpus callosum, thalamus, hypothalamus, pons, and most of their brain stem, due to the catsastrophic sequelae of anoxic trauma.

This isn't a little area of infarction in the brain stem. The areas that are missing are necessary for life. A remnant of cortex without the midbrain, pons, or brain stem is just a remnant. Not capable of supporting life functions. This isn't "locked in syndrome", or vegetative state, or minimally conscious state. There is no amount of fish oil or vitamins down a g-tube that can fix this, or regenerate the pons, midbrain, and brain stem.

How do Dolan's experts think Jahi can hear her mother's voice, and respond to it, when her entire pons, midbrain, corpus callosum, thalamus, and hypothalamus is essentially gone, on the brief MRI images they chose to share at the press conference? How can the vestiges of her cerebellum coordinate purposeful movement? This is folly. Magical thinking. IMO.

http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-the-function-of-the-pons.htm#didyouknowout

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-midbrain.htm

 

[Steft50]

Does anyone know how much a ventilator alone costs per month? I would be surprised if Jahi's care is over 100,000$ a month.

I checked the company I get my oxygen concentrator from and they don't list prices online. I know for my concentrator and fill machine they bill my insurance over $1200 a month. I would bet that the vent would be a whole lot more.

 

[K_Z]

Does anyone know how much a ventilator alone costs per month? I would be surprised if Jahi's care is over 100,000$ a month.

I agree that hundreds of thousands of dollars a month is way, way too much of a $$ estimate. NW once tweeted that she was paying out of pocket $200/ month for the fish oil and vitamins. I think hundreds to possibly the low thousands of dollars a month is more accurate, especially in a home care environment. The St. Peter ICU was thousands of dollars a day, most likely-- although she was probably not getting a lot of sophisticated diagnostic tests, surgeries, etc. Just custodial care for a vent dependent comatose pt.

I have a family member (elderly) that had a serious car accident, and 30 days of trauma ICU care at a level 4 trauma center was about $500,000. That's with all the procedures, consults, imaging, etc.

Caring for Jahi at home is feasible, plenty of families do it. The costs to care for her are pretty "fixed", not variable. She doesn't need much beyond the feeding tube and room-air vent-- just bodily care, trach care, etc. NW has said she is on room air, no meds or IVs, no catheter, etc, just tube feeds and ordinary care for comatose patients. That should be financially manageable with donations for supplies from charitable organizations, IMO. Friends and supporters could be trained in the physical care aspects to help out. They appear to have a vast network of religious supporters who would likely help, if asked.

I just don't see the difficult issues-- this is no different from home hospice care, and considerably less complex. They just can't receive funding from the state or federal govt to pay for it. It's a hardship, but one many families make for their loved ones.

 

[al66pine]

Re: Payment to 'Expert Witnesses' & Statements re Jahi

IIRC at Oct 3 presser hosted by Dolan, he stated -
I have not paid [names, the people giving stmts & participating in presser]
Jahi's mom has not paid them.

I made a mental note that this happened @ ~1:20- 1:30 in vid lasting about 1h:40min+. Now cannot find link.

When pressed further, he said, IIRC, the Internat'l Brain org paid these professional's at the standard rate [Medicare or Medicaid?]

Did anyone else notice this?

 

[jjenny]

I still can't believe the gall of showing that bran scan. The atrophy is stunning. (Notice the space between the skull and the brain itself)...

There is some brain tissue left. I guess that's what Dolan is trying to show. He doesn't care how much. As long as he can prove there is a single cell in there alive, he can claim Jahi is not brain dead.

 

[K_Z]

I've been looking on the Domain Web site for Alameda County Superior Court to see if there is more information about the hearing scheduled Thursday, Oct 9, in Judge Evilio Grillo's court.

Case # RP13-707598/ Latasha Winkfield

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/172795721/jahidoc100214.pdf

So far, I see nothing at all on Judge Grillo's calendar for Thursday (or later in the week/ month). Perhaps this case is not listed for some reason?

It doesn't show up when I search under name, either.

Anyone else have any ideas? Someone upthread posted that Judge Grillo invited Dr. Paul Fischer to be in attendance (no link in post), which seems to indicate Judge Grillo is going to hear "something" related to Dr. Fischer's court ordered exam and findings of last year. Anyone else have any different ideas for looking this case up?

 

[K_Z]

Re: Payment to 'Expert Witnesses' & Statements re Jahi

IIRC at Oct 3 presser hosted by Dolan, he stated -
I have not paid [names, the people giving stmts & participating in presser]
Jahi's mom has not paid them.

I made a mental note that this happened @ ~1:20- 1:30 in vid lasting about 1h:40min+. Now cannot find link.

When pressed further, he said, IIRC, the Internat'l Brain org paid these professional's at the standard rate [Medicare or Medicaid?]

Did anyone else notice this?

Here's a link to the presser.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/multityska?utm_campaign=JPER&utm_medium=FlashPlayer&utm_source=embed

 

[SwampMama]

Does anyone know how much a ventilator alone costs per month? I would be surprised if Jahi's care is over 100,000$ a month.

We have never heard of a single instance where her family had to pay for anything yet. The NJ hospital took Jahi in for free for many months. The family received over $60,000 in cash from an online fundraiser (which is still open but now has significantly dried up to just about a few donations a month of about 5 or 10 dollars). People initially donated to it so Jahi could be flown out of California but it was never used for that since transportation and care for the trip got for free too.

That online donation site has stayed open long after the initial need for "transportation" was gotten for free and that Jahi was getting free medical care in her new place in NJ. Also churches had held fundraisers and asked for donations and we have no way of knowing how much was collected that way but i imagine it was very significant.

Her mother posted a pic and mention Jahi was getting vitamins/fish oil/supplements that $200 a week but stated she was glad that donations were paying for all that. Her family was given the "Life & Hope" award by the Terri Schiavo foundation and I thought that also came with a financial donation to them but i can't find a link. Anyone know??

Also, a few months back (middle of August) the New Beginnings Community Center ( the place run by the hairdresser) posted a facebook public facebook message that said ""AWESOME NEWS......... NEW BEGINNINGS FAMILY!!! JAHI IS GOING HOME!!!! New Beginnings wants to help Jahi and her family "set up house". EVERYTHING IS NEEDED..........EVERYTHING!!! From bedding to "Back - to- school clothes". We will start loading a box truck on Wednesday of this week & will be packing up until Friday. We'd like to collect gift cards and GAS CARDS for Jahi's family too. Please call ******* - if you can HELP with some items, resources or can help load the truck!!" (Those are their capitals and punctuation, not mine)http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_26354881/reports-that-jahi-mcmath-is-coming-home-are

The page was flooded with many less than kind comments and was taken down and Dolan spoke out saying that Jahi's mother had not asked for anything and was not going home but NBCC did gather stuff quietly even though they erased their post. I'm not understanding why all the specific stuff was mentioned like bedding, school clothes and gascards???? Jahi certainly isn't going to school! It seems like the family wants the public and gov't to pay for all of their needs for the rest of their lives.

I do believe Jahi did leave the hospital in NJ around that time and went "home" although the circumstances have never been revealed. Was she discharged and the hopsital continues to pay for care? Did Jahi's mom and the hosp have a parting of ways because of the family's difficulty to work with.They want it their way or there is hell to pay and they have shown how they react when they do not get what they want. If the NJ hosp is paying for her care then why would the family want to go back to CA and get govt assistance to pay for her care??

Something is not right with the financial picture here or the story we are being given.