Jahi’s family wants her declared 'alive again’

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Al66pine, I think it depends mostly on how much $ they (the Terri Schiavo Foundation) already had, how much they spent at any time, and how much they still have coming in.

I know they have lost some people's donations over this case.

I too hope they go bankrupt, or at the very least see the loss as a threat, so they'll pulling out from giving any future financial or public support for this macabre handling/exploitation of Jahi.


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I assume in the very least, they were the ones paying for her stay at the NJ facility. Where Jahi lives now? IDK,maybe they are paying rent or purchased the house for them.

I'd have to do some digging to find out if there are any filings on how much money the Life and Hope Foundation is working with; I imagine it is a lot of money from when Terri died.
 
badhorsie said:
Two words, Disability Benefits
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Yes, Complete medical coverage and a monthly check. Also travel expenses, if she has to travel many, many miles.

ETA. I have a mentally handicapped sister, (she was born premature), that draws it. She has been handicapped for years, and drawing this for years. This is Kentucky though.
 
Tulessa said:
Yes, Complete medical coverage and a monthly check. Also travel expenses, if she has to travel many, many miles.

ETA. I have a mentally handicapped sister, (she was born premature), that draws it. She has been handicapped for years, and drawing this for years. This is Kentucky though.
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Your sister hasn't been declared "brain dead", right? Major difference to Jahi's case. :moo:
 
That's the problem-- they want compensation and the maximum compensation at that. If she is brain dead, they can't collect that. She is brain dead and thus dead = no benefits.

But the longer they let her body go on, the less likely the medical examiner will be able to determine a cause of death at autopsy, so their case against the hospital will be weak.
 
Tulessa said:
Yes, Complete medical coverage and a monthly check. Also travel expenses, if she has to travel many, many miles.

ETA. I have a mentally handicapped sister, (she was born premature), that draws it. She has been handicapped for years, and drawing this for years. This is Kentucky though.
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And, there is potentially more. Ifthe patient is on Medicaid, there are programs to pay family members to care for the person at home. NW could be paid to provide some of the unlicensed care, if Jahi were to be declared "alive again."

http://www.carepathways.com/get-paid-family-caregiver.cfm
 
Hiandmighty said:
That's the problem-- they want compensation and the maximum compensation at that. If she is brain dead, they can't collect that. She is brain dead and thus dead = no benefits. But the longer they let her body go on, the less likely the medical examiner will be able to determine a cause of death at autopsy, so their case against the hospital will be weak.
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IIRC, at the time when this case began, it was strongly intimated that the family's behaviour in the CICU could have contributed to the complications that led to Jahi's medical decline and, ultimately, to her brain death diagnosis. The condition of Jahi's body has probably now deteriorated to the point where CH could also have difficulty in proving that at least some members of the family may, in their panic and lack of expertise, have contributed to her death. I'll go back to the first threads to find a specific reference.
 
wendiesan said:
IIRC, at the time when this case began, it was strongly intimated that the family's behaviour in the CICU could have contributed to the complications that led to Jahi's medical decline and, ultimately, to her brain death diagnosis. The condition of Jahi's body has probably now deteriorated to the point where CH could also have difficulty in proving that at least some members of the family may, in their panic and lack of expertise, have contributed to her death. I'll go back to the first threads to find a specific reference.
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. bbm

Hey, wendiesan and others, Re bbm, agreed,
but elapsed time and Jahi's fam & supporters' actions & 'treatments' also cut the other way, in favor of Hosp & other potential def's.

What can Jahi's mom's legal team provide in the way of evidence, other than Res Ipsa Loquitor argument,
i.e., Jahi came in, came out dead, so Hosp & med professionals must have committed malpractice?
Well, no, she did not come in 'fine' as she came in for three procedures, not one 'simple' one, etc.

What acts will atty show as constituting med-mal, failure to meet std of care, etc? Er, umm, well, IDK.
ETA e.g., did surgeon leave hemostats in Jahi's throat? A scalpel?

Hosp & med profs may have benefit of disinterested witnesses observations (other patients' fam & visitors) re--
--fam suctioning throat,
--fam serving BigMac or whatever.
--other unapproved fam acts.

Also, from another angle, if post-Cal. hosp 'care' or 'treatment' records are made public, will be interesting to see charts, etc.
and to learn thoughts of med profs here.

JM2cts.
 
Hiandmighty said:
That's the problem-- they want compensation and the maximum compensation at that. If she is brain dead, they can't collect that. She is brain dead and thus dead = no benefits.

But the longer they let her body go on, the less likely the medical examiner will be able to determine a cause of death at autopsy, so their case against the hospital will be weak.
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BBM:

Just for general consumption, a COD has to be present BEFORE a death certificate was/is issued. As I've mentioned before, documentation of death can/may be amended when more information is provided, i.e. toxicology results, esoteric tissue testing, etc.; ALL reproducible & substantiated testing(s) can be evaluated if formalized requests are made. (The process of review SHOULD be documented somewhere within the jurisdiction's SOP @ the OCME, I am aware of more than a few agencies who have written, reviewed or rewritten such protocols!).
When the cardiac muscle ceases to function in this case, it will be quite interesting to see what happens next......and yes, eventually the cardiac tissue will cease to be supported by external, mechanical means. IMHO, the case for ANY "medical malpractice" has been weakened by the family's treatment of the decedent; the California OCME/coroner COULD (probably WILL) travel to the state where the decedent is "housed" at the time of the cessation of muscular activity aka "the second death" and participate in the autopsy with the new OCME staff. (yep, our office has discussed this case and had we been involved, heaven forbid, we'd be "on the horn" ASAP offering room, board & airfare to the Ca. forensic pathologist unlucky enough to draw the case!).
On shaky ground here, but I'm betting on a out of court settlement when all is said and done although I REALLY hope not!
 
joypath said:
BBM:

hen the cardiac muscle ceases to function in this case, it will be quite interesting to see what happens next......and yes, eventually the cardiac tissue will cease to be supported by external, mechanical means. IMHO, the case for ANY "medical malpractice" has been weakened by the family's treatment of the decedent; the California OCME/coroner COULD (probably WILL) travel to the state where the decedent is "housed" at the time of the cessation of muscular activity aka "the second death" and participate in the autopsy with the new OCME staff. (yep, our office has discussed this case and had we been involved, heaven forbid, we'd be "on the horn" ASAP offering room, board & airfare to the Ca. forensic pathologist unlucky enough to draw the case!).
On shaky ground here, but I'm betting on a out of court settlement when all is said and done although I REALLY hope not!
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Respectfully snipped.

I had no idea that a California ME would eventually travel to the location of Jahi's body following cardiac death! I always assumed the local ME at the body's location would do the autopsy, and coordinate with the CA ME. That's quite interesting.

Joypath, I think NW will be very resistant to the idea of autopsy for Jahi. Are there any circumstances now under which autopsy would no longer be necessary, or could be waived by the mother, or an ME? (And yes, if there would be no autopsy, I know the family's eventual malpractice case would be substantially weakened, but with the year long gap, and healing of tissues, it seems doubtful autopsy will find anything that is conclusive about the procedure or the PICU bleed/ arrest.)

Is her "second death" still considered to be a reportable complication of elective surgery? (Albeit, after a long delay of prolonged organ support.)
 
K_Z said:
Respectfully snipped.

I had no idea that a California ME would eventually travel to the location of Jahi's body following cardiac death! I always assumed the local ME at the body's location would do the autopsy, and coordinate with the CA ME. That's quite interesting.

Joypath, I think NW will be very resistant to the idea of autopsy for Jahi. Are there any circumstances now under which autopsy would no longer be necessary, or could be waived by the mother, or an ME? (And yes, if there would be no autopsy, I know the family's eventual malpractice case would be substantially weakened, but with the year long gap, and healing of tissues, it seems doubtful autopsy will find anything that is conclusive about the procedure or the PICU bleed/ arrest.)

Is her "second death" still considered to be a reportable complication of elective surgery? (Albeit, after a long delay of prolonged organ support.)
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Very respectfully BBM! :loveyou:


K_Z, I was speaking ONLY for my agency/group (oh yeah, we've had MANY conversations regarding this case!) that WE WOULD offer the Ca ME the opportunity to come to our jurisdiction! & our ADA(s) would work to expedite practice priviledges (you know, that policy of professional courtesy, a concept that seems to be declining or GONE!). However IF somebody @ our OCME were so "unique" as to provide a family here with the same scenario.....the supported decedent, a member or MORE would be present to claim the body or participate in an out of state post! (yep, SOP does reflect some of these accommodations!).



It is my BELIEF that NW would NOT have ANY say in the manner in which Jahi's body would be handled until cleared by the local jurisdiction. I also believe that the formality of an autopsy would be conducted, no matter how long it takes for the cardiac muscle to stop functioning. (Just for scientific inquiry alone, this would be valuable!).

IMVHO, this case is closed regarding the reporting as a complication of/to surgery....the hospital chart has all that relates to that situation via the medical determination (supported by FACTUAL documentation) of brain death.
 
That article lost me right at the "routine tonsillectomy" statement and it was downhill from there.
When they start out like that, it's hard to take seriously any further remarks made.
 
gitana1 said:
They can can bring a wrongful death suit even though her body is being maintained on life support in New Jersey. Because Jahi has been declared legally dead. But that would put them in a strange position. I see no opportunities for them to obtain funds through a lawsuit except malpractice or wrongful death. The cap in CA is 250k though for pain and suffering. There is no cap on on-going medical care though, which may be one of the strategic reasons for wanting Jahi declared alive- then the hospital could be sued for the on-going costs of keeping her body going. Perhaps that would enable in-home care.

They are running out of time and evidence when it comes to a wrongful death suit- 1 more year before the SOL is up I believe. And as articles have pointed out, with her body on life support for so long, it becomes harder for an autopsy to determine the COD. Plus, as I stated above, it would be odd for them to file such a suit when try re claiming their daughter is alive. But we shall see.



I think you know you don't have to instruct me or anyone else who has been following this case as to the science of brain death.

However, I have seen ever more dramatic claims being spouted everywhere in an attempt to support the immediate disconnection of the "plug", such as her brain would totally liquefy within weeks, her body is turning black from decay, etc.

While I did not anticipate that Jahi's body would be able to be maintained for as long as this, clearly, she is not a rotting corpse. Science enables a body to continue for various periods, without brain function. I still think, though, that Jahi's heart will simply cease beating at a certain point, regardless of the life support. Most brain dead people's bodies do not last too long- no actual decay, which is what begins to happen when blood is no longer being circulated through tissues- but cellular damage of various kinds does occur.

And either way, I continue to believe that this should've been handled differently by the hospital and that the law should consider this type of choice a private family matter such that if the family can find a facility willing to sustain life support- so be it.

I continue to view this family as tragic, grief-stricken and distrustful people who cannot accept the inevitable due to the suddenness, the promises made to the child and her age, basically guilt and severe grief, but who, if treated with continuing empathy, would eventually process the death of their daughter. I think everyone processes and handles grief differently and some not as rationally as others.

Calling them grifters or otherwise vilifying them as crazy monsters who need to be forced to change their delusions, is not right, IMO.
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ITA. Good post. Has Jahi's death certificate ever been filed by the coroner and is now a public record? I've not seen any media mention it. If it hasn't, then wouldn't it just be cancelled if the ME decides she no longer meets the criteria for brain death? If is tossed, doesn't that mean any lawsuit would be for medical malpractice rather than wrongful death so they can get compensatory damages for her on-going care?
 
Yes, the death certificate was filed. Don't you think if that theory was even remotely possible, that it's the first thing Dolan would have done instead of trying to get the court to intervene and have it invalidated? Wouldn't need to be invalidated if it wasn't made official.
 
TJL said:
Yes, the death certificate was filed. Don't you think if that theory was even remotely possible, that it's the first thing Dolan would have done instead of trying to get the court to intervene and have it invalidated? Wouldn't need to be invalidated if it wasn't made official.
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When was it filed? The only media reports I've seen said it was unofficial. My question to the verified attorney is: if it is still unofficial does the court even need to get involved? There has been much silence since Dolan asked the court to let the physicians work it out.


The family's lawyer Christopher Dolan told the judge he wanted time for the court-appointed doctor and his own medical experts to confer. No new court date has been scheduled.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ily-continues-insist-alive.html#ixzz3NPHDunX2


The coroner's office said that the death certificate -- which still needs to be accepted by the health department to become official -- has a date of death of December 12, 2013.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/03/health/jahi-mcmath-girl-brain-dead/
 
MyBelle said:
.... The coroner's office said that the death certificate --
which still needs to be accepted by the health department to become official -- has a date of death of December 12, 2013.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/03/health/jahi-mcmath-girl-brain-dead/
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. sbm

This phrase - needs to be accepted - seems a bit vague.

Can anyone enlighten us about D/C procedure - what's involved in the health dept 'accepting'?
Either specifically in Oakland, in CA. or in US generally? TIA.

ETA
After noting date of link - Jan. 2014 - not certain that the D/C still needs to be 'accepted' by health dept.
 
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