James Kolar's New Book Will Blow the Lid off the JonBenet Ramsey Investigation

[UKGuy]

How is what she said about the size 12s protecting anyone? She said they were in the drawer and they weren't. How does that protect BR?

Her answers suggest TO YOU that she was protecting BR, but they don't suggest that to me. Sounds to me like you're the one making the evidence fit the theory here UK, not me. I honestly don't have any idea why she said what she did, or how it fits into any theory, yours, mine or anyone else's.

Nom de plume,
Sometimes the hint is in the evidence not in the theory. What I am suggesting is that Patsy's answers regarding the size-12's is a window onto another theory one that Patsy would prefer to discount, hence her lies.

She cannot be lying for herself since her account regarding the size-12's is shot down immediately by BDP, hence she must be lying for someone else?

So the conventional theory does not explain Patsy's behaviour with regard to her account about the size-12's, so some other theory is required?

One theory might be a male Ramsey removed the size-12's from the underwear drawer thinking they were bona fide JonBenet underwear. He then selected a current Day Of The Week pair to redress JonBenet, job done so he thought.

This male attempted to hide his sexual involvement with JonBenet by explicitly not mentioning anything about size-12's?

The latter theory is consistent with PR's account and that of a male stager.


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[midwest mama]

Why do you think any possible assault had to involve multiple persons (more than two)?

I do not think it HAD to involve more than two people, but in considering the possibility of thigh bruises and some of the vaginal injury that was apparent during autopsy happening at the party, I first think about force being used because she struggled against it happening. And as Chrishope noted maybe she had to be stifled from screaming out for help. Unless the perp was adult and very adept at assault of that type against a child, I see the possibility that someone could have subdued her in order for another person to assault her. And sick as this may sound, someone might have been there to comfort her as she was violated. It has happened repeatedly in cases of pedophilia and familial incest.

If injury resulted from a group of the younger guests taking sexual exploration too far, then IMO, a good reason for a mortified parent to call 911 for help.

 

[midwest mama]

We must remember that we are expected to believe that a package of size 12 Bloomies wss discovered among Ramsey property after the crime and forwarded to LE to be considered the package from which the pair came that was found on JB.

For all I'm worth, all I can remember Patsy saying about the large panties is that she intended to give them to Jenny but did not get things packaged up to send in time for Christmas. She let JB keep them and they were put in her drawer.

Then we should also remember that there was a small sharp knife found on s counter just outside JB's bedroom, which I believe could have been used to cut the packaging open in order to get the panties removed.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

I am new to this section on web sleuths but have been a web sleuths member for awhile. Please redirect me if I put this in the wrong spot, but I just finished James Kolar's book and I had some questions that I am hoping someone is able to help shed some light on. I apologize if these have been asked previously (I am sure some most definitely have):

- If JR and PR were "accessories after the fact" why then would PR be wearing the same clothes as she was the night before? Especially, as it has been noted that PR took special notice of her appearance and would never be known to wear the same clothes two days in a row according to friends. If PR hadn't been awake during the murder, why then would she still be in the same clothes?

-Why also would PR's DNA be found on the bowl of pineapple in the kitchen? Would she typically feed her kids late at night and then go up to bed without ensuring that both were asleep before going to bed herself (leaving opportunity for BR and JBR to be alone downstairs)? And even if she did feed them pineapple and tuck both kids in bed, why deny that she did serve JBR pineapple?

-Why would the light be on in JBR's room if she were asleep when they came home? If PR went to check on JBR and noticed she wasn't there, would she think to turn the light on in her room if it were morning and she was able to see that she wasn't there? Would a child think to turn the light on in her room if the intent were to go downstairs?

-When did JR and PR typically take showers? Was JR known to take a shower in the morning? Why would JR take a shower and PR not take a shower? Again, especially if she has been noted to take special notice of her appearance.

-What was JR wearing when police arrived? Was it what he typically wore?

-The order of events indicates that the sexual assault using the paint brush occured after the traumatic head injury. The sequence also points to strangulation occuring after the head injury as well. What point would strangulation serve at such a late point after her head injury? Why such a large gap in between the blow to the head and the strangulation? Was the blow to subdue her?

-Why would both JBR and BR exhibit signs of bed-wetting at ages six and nine? Wouldn't that possibly point to both of them being sexually abused?

-Who redressed and wiped down JBR?

-In the phone call to 911 when PR ends the call but it stays on-line for a few seconds and you can hear the conversation between them, why does the supposed voice of BR ask "What did you find?" What is BR referring too and why is JR not "speaking to him"?

-Why was the half unwrapped present in the basement? Could this have possibly been a bribe? It was noted that the wrapping paper on the present was the same wrapping paper used on the presents that were unwrapped on Christmas day of 1996.

It's Pasty's kitchen. Her fingrtprints would be every where. John Ramsey said they did their Christmas breakast that morning. JonBenet helped make pancakes with John, I think Burke and Pasty set the table (I think it was at the breakfast bar) and both of their prints were found on the bowl of pineapple. The only thing that didn't have prints was the batteries in a flashlight the Ramseys wouldn't claim as theirs, just that it looked like one they may of had.

I think the time between the head blow and the chocking was around ninety minutes. The blow to the head would kill her, but slower than they thought? They got tired of waiting? I think Pasty thought she was dead, but JonBenet moved and Pasty knew she had two choices. She could call 911, and the molestation/corporate cleansing would be found and that would bring scandal and shame so it's done quite coldly, or do you do it to end her suffering? Now who to blame? Anyone but them.

Pasty had a deadline to meet. They were to be up and out of the house by six thirty to be at the airport by seven.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

We must remember that we are expected to believe that a package of size 12 Bloomies wss discovered among Ramsey property after the crime and forwarded to LE to be considered the package from which the pair came that was found on JB.

For all I'm worth, all I can remember Patsy saying about the large panties is that she intended to give them to Jenny but did not get things packaged up to send in time for Christmas. She let JB keep them and they were put in her drawer.

Then we should also remember that there was a small sharp knife found on s counter just outside JB's bedroom, which I believe could have been used to cut the packaging open in order to get the panties removed.

Burke had a swiss army knife and would leave wood shaving all over the place so Linda Hoffman-Pugh hid it in the upper shelf in the little laundry area and told Pasty where she'd hid it.

 

[midwest mama]

Burke had a swiss army knife and would leave wood shaving all over the place so Linda Hoffman-Pugh hid it in the upper shelf in the little laundry area and told Pasty where she'd hid it.

A swiss army knife was taken into evidence from the wine cellar. I seem to recall a statement once made that Burke had two of those knives. Anyone else recall this info?

The knife found on the counter near the bedroom was identified as coming from the kitchen - a small "grapefruit knife", IIRC. That would be about the size of a paring knife.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

A swiss army knife was taken into evidence from the wine cellar. I seem to recall a statement once made that Burke had two of those knives. Anyone else recall this info?

The knife found on the counter near the bedroom was identified as coming from the kitchen - a small "grapefruit knife", IIRC. That would be about the size of a paring knife.

I don't remember two swiss army knives. Pasty said they had bought Burke the knife on a trip to Switzerland, and it had his name engraved on it.

 

[oldspice]

I think people need to stop making a cruel accusation against Burke. There is no evidence implicating him and the idea of his involvement does not make sense. JonBenet's skull was fractured by a single very hard blow. I doubt any child could possibly make a garrote. If your son hit your daughter on the head so that she lost consciousness, instead of taking her to the hospital, would you molest her to make it look like a sexual kidnapping and then strangle her with a garrote and write a bizarre ransom note? Only a very disturbed child could be involved in this type of crime and there is no evidence of that in Burke before or since. He went right back to school. It's unfair that his name is dragged through the mud.

 

[UKGuy]

I think people need to stop making a cruel accusation against Burke. There is no evidence implicating him and the idea of his involvement does not make sense. JonBenet's skull was fractured by a single very hard blow. I doubt any child could possibly make a garrote. If your son hit your daughter on the head so that she lost consciousness, instead of taking her to the hospital, would you molest her to make it look like a sexual kidnapping and then strangle her with a garrote and write a bizarre ransom note? Only a very disturbed child could be involved in this type of crime and there is no evidence of that in Burke before or since. He went right back to school. It's unfair that his name is dragged through the mud.

oldspice,
Wow! Your perspective is precisely that expected by any Ramsey antagonist.


You must consider how much the staging might have influenced your opinion.

There was staging the wine-cellar and the size-12's demonstrates this.


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[redheadedgal]

I think people need to stop making a cruel accusation against Burke... the idea of his involvement does not make sense. JonBenet's skull was fractured by a single very hard blow... and there is no evidence of that in Burke before or since.

BR had previously hit JB in the face with a golf club. Why is it out of the question he could've attempted to hurt her again?

I posted a link earlier about a 7-yr old killing another 7-yr old with a kid-sized golf club hit to the head... so it is very possible for a 9-yr old to do so also.

 

[DeeDee249]

I think people need to stop making a cruel accusation against Burke. There is no evidence implicating him and the idea of his involvement does not make sense. JonBenet's skull was fractured by a single very hard blow. I doubt any child could possibly make a garrote. If your son hit your daughter on the head so that she lost consciousness, instead of taking her to the hospital, would you molest her to make it look like a sexual kidnapping and then strangle her with a garrote and write a bizarre ransom note? Only a very disturbed child could be involved in this type of crime and there is no evidence of that in Burke before or since. He went right back to school. It's unfair that his name is dragged through the mud.

Like it or not, EVERY person present in the house at the time JB was killed is a suspect- and shall remain so UNTIL the killer(s) is identified BY NAME. He has the right (and has been requested) to talk to police any time he wishes. He has the right to clear his name should he choose. He has chosen not to, and his lawyer has refused to allow him to speak about the night his sister died. To me, what a lawyer does NOT allow a client to answer speaks volumes about their guilt or implication in a crime. Unfair? Not at all.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I think people need to stop making a cruel accusation against Burke. There is no evidence implicating him and the idea of his involvement does not make sense. JonBenet's skull was fractured by a single very hard blow. I doubt any child could possibly make a garrote. If your son hit your daughter on the head so that she lost consciousness, instead of taking her to the hospital, would you molest her to make it look like a sexual kidnapping and then strangle her with a garrote and write a bizarre ransom note? Only a very disturbed child could be involved in this type of crime and there is no evidence of that in Burke before or since. He went right back to school. It's unfair that his name is dragged through the mud.

We must read different info......

 

[Chrishope]

Re possible party activity: There was a published account of JB appearing very unhappy during the party. An assault against her that day might have easily involved multiple persons. There were at least a dozen young people in attendance and some guests who weren't in the usual reported circle of Ramsey friends. Could they have sequestered themselves away from crowd notice? Do you recall that the house was considered a maze and have you ever tried to keep your eyes everywhere during a major holiday party with that many people involved in activities, eating, etc?? No doubt in my mind it could have happened. Especially to a child who was trained to accept that behavior.

It could have happened, but if there were a group not in the regular circle, and they assaulted her, why wouldn't she tell on them? Even if she'd been trained to that behavior she was obviously upset by it.

Mrs. White answered the door when police arrived, (if I'm recalling correctly) and assured them everything was ok. Was Mrs White covering for someone, outside the normal circle friends? Seems unlikely to me. If Mrs. White was covering for someone it's more likely someone from the inner circle of friends?

One reason Mrs. White would have said everything was ok, is because everything was ok. It's one possibility.

 

[Chrishope]

RE the size 12s. For all of Patsy's changing her stories, Ramnesia, etc it does seem odd that she was clear that the package of size 12s was in JB's underwear drawer. So for once, it would seem she was telling the truth. IF they were there, I would presume they were probably still in the package. Why take them out if they were too big for her? Might as well wait until she grew into them.

It is odd, given that she'd know the questions about size 12s were coming and could have prepared some explanation, or just developed Ramnesia. She knew the police had already searched, so if the 12s were never in the drawer, the police knew that, and PR knew the police knew.

Why then tell them the 12s were in the drawer? One reason is that she's telling the truth - or what she thinks is the truth.

If she's trying to cover for someone, it doesn't really work if the 12s aren't in the drawer. It just brings up more questions such as why would someone take the remaining panties and make them disappear?

The other possibility is that they were out of the package to be worn over the pull-ups. It's been said that her bedwetting had subsided for a while, then started up again. Maybe PR bought the 12s for her to spare her the embarrassment of wearing pull-ups at her age.

Either way, they weren't there when LE checked. If they were to hide the pull-ups I don't see any reason to remove the rest of them. For that matter, why take them out even if they were still in the package? I can't see any reason to remove them regardless of the reason they might have been there.

Neither can I. Maybe the culprit took the package down the basement along with JB, knowing he'd need fresh panties after the "activities"? Maybe the culprit did not realize at the point that they were the wrong size?

So having said all this, the only thing that makes sense to me is that the pair JB was wearing when she was found came from the package wrapped for PR's niece and left in the WC.

That does make a lot of sense.

Regardless of where they came from, or who they belonged to, why make the rest of them disappear? There must be some reason that we're just not seeing. I can't remember, did LE find the package of 12's that were wrapped for the niece in the WC?

I can't see the reason either.

There were two packages of panties. So it's at least possible one package found it's way to the underwear drawer.

 

[Chrishope]

I do not think it HAD to involve more than two people, but in considering the possibility of thigh bruises and some of the vaginal injury that was apparent during autopsy happening at the party, I first think about force being used because she struggled against it happening. And as Chrishope noted maybe she had to be stifled from screaming out for help. Unless the perp was adult and very adept at assault of that type against a child, I see the possibility that someone could have subdued her in order for another person to assault her. And sick as this may sound, someone might have been there to comfort her as she was violated. It has happened repeatedly in cases of pedophilia and familial incest.

If injury resulted from a group of the younger guests taking sexual exploration too far, then IMO, a good reason for a mortified parent to call 911 for help.

An excellent reason to call 911. So why does PW tell the cops all is well in Ramseyland?

 

[Venom]

An excellent reason to call 911. So why does PW tell the cops all is well in Ramseyland?

Was PW ever formally interviewed and asked that?
Although the 911 call is odd, maybe it was just coincidence...a kid prank called it?

 

[Chrishope]

I am new to this section on web sleuths but have been a web sleuths member for awhile. Please redirect me if I put this in the wrong spot, but I just finished James Kolar's book and I had some questions that I am hoping someone is able to help shed some light on. I apologize if these have been asked previously (I am sure some most definitely have):

- If JR and PR were "accessories after the fact" why then would PR be wearing the same clothes as she was the night before? Especially, as it has been noted that PR took special notice of her appearance and would never be known to wear the same clothes two days in a row according to friends. If PR hadn't been awake during the murder, why then would she still be in the same clothes?

-Why also would PR's DNA be found on the bowl of pineapple in the kitchen? Would she typically feed her kids late at night and then go up to bed without ensuring that both were asleep before going to bed herself (leaving opportunity for BR and JBR to be alone downstairs)? And even if she did feed them pineapple and tuck both kids in bed, why deny that she did serve JBR pineapple?

-Why would the light be on in JBR's room if she were asleep when they came home? If PR went to check on JBR and noticed she wasn't there, would she think to turn the light on in her room if it were morning and she was able to see that she wasn't there? Would a child think to turn the light on in her room if the intent were to go downstairs?

-When did JR and PR typically take showers? Was JR known to take a shower in the morning? Why would JR take a shower and PR not take a shower? Again, especially if she has been noted to take special notice of her appearance.

-What was JR wearing when police arrived? Was it what he typically wore?

-The order of events indicates that the sexual assault using the paint brush occured after the traumatic head injury. The sequence also points to strangulation occuring after the head injury as well. What point would strangulation serve at such a late point after her head injury? Why such a large gap in between the blow to the head and the strangulation? Was the blow to subdue her?

-Why would both JBR and BR exhibit signs of bed-wetting at ages six and nine? Wouldn't that possibly point to both of them being sexually abused?

-Who redressed and wiped down JBR?

-In the phone call to 911 when PR ends the call but it stays on-line for a few seconds and you can hear the conversation between them, why does the supposed voice of BR ask "What did you find?" What is BR referring too and why is JR not "speaking to him"?

-Why was the half unwrapped present in the basement? Could this have possibly been a bribe? It was noted that the wrapping paper on the present was the same wrapping paper used on the presents that were unwrapped on Christmas day of 1996.

Welcome. I'm going to give you one possible answer to the question in bold type. It's going to be sarcastic, for emphasis. The sarcasm is not directed at you.

- If JR and PR were "accessories after the fact" why then would PR be wearing the same clothes as she was the night before? Especially, as it has been noted that PR took special notice of her appearance and would never be known to wear the same clothes two days in a row according to friends. If PR hadn't been awake during the murder, why then would she still be in the same clothes?


Because PR is a moron. She's been up all night, killing and staging, yet she can't figure out that wearing the same clothes is a huge tip off that she's been up all night killing and staging. She wears the same clothes because she's too dumb to realize she should change.

Or maybe she ran out of time. It would take what 2 to 3 hours to change clothes? Oh, wait, no it would take more like 5-10 minutes for a normal person to change clothes, if that long. But she's former miss WV and she's competed in pageants were she had to change from gown to swimsuit to whatever was worn for the talent portion of the contest, and had to make these changes in minutes. Well maybe she's slowed down in her old age.

Or maybe she just didn't have time because the phone call to 911 had to be made precisely at 5:52 am. Oh, wait, it didn't have to be made at 5:52. If she's calling 911 (on herself) then she has control of when the call is placed. If she needs 5 more minutes to change clothes, then she can just delay the call 5 minutes.

Well maybe she didn't have anything else to wear. After all the Ramseys were poor, and she often had to wear the same clothes several days in a row until the Goodwill store had something in her size. Oh, wait, that's not right either. The Rs were millionaires and PR had closets full of designer clothes.

Sarcasm off.

It's been noted that her makeup was fresh when she answered the door to let in the police. If she had time to apply/freshen makeup, why not take an extra few minutes and change clothes? If she's trying not to appear as if she's been up all night killing and staging, then a change of clothes compliments the freshened makeup.

This is one of those things that can be read either way. My take is that if she'd been involved she'd certainly have changed clothes, she had the clothes, the time, and would need to minimize suspicion towards herself.

 

[Chrishope]

Was PW ever formally interviewed and asked that?
Although the 911 call is odd, maybe it was just coincidence...a kid prank called it?

I can't recall if PW was asked that by police.

I could certainly have been a prank call. The 911 call seems odd, but that may be because we are looking for connections - sometimes where they don't actually exist.

 

[midwest mama]

I can't recall if PW was asked that by police.

I could certainly have been a prank call. The 911 call seems odd, but that may be because we are looking for connections - sometimes where they don't actually exist.

Susan Stine answered the door and rebuffed police on the 23rd. Fleet White took the heat for making the call accidentally.

The party guests on the 23rd, not usually part of the inner circle were all very close family members or friends to those who were, except for the basement renter of the Barnhill's.

If JB was trained to accept sexual activity from someone who was "ushered" to her by a circle member, she would have had no one to tell.

Let's not forget how Mrs. Stine became Patsy's "bulldog" and even went so far as to impersonate LE over the internet for the sake of proclaimed Ramsey protection.

I have to think there was a strong possibility JB was a victim of abuse/molestation at that party on the 23rd.

 

[Nom de plume]

It could have happened, but if there were a group not in the regular circle, and they assaulted her, why wouldn't she tell on them? Even if she'd been trained to that behavior she was obviously upset by it.

Mrs. White answered the door when police arrived, (if I'm recalling correctly) and assured them everything was ok. Was Mrs White covering for someone, outside the normal circle friends? Seems unlikely to me. If Mrs. White was covering for someone it's more likely someone from the inner circle of friends?

One reason Mrs. White would have said everything was ok, is because everything was ok. It's one possibility.

It wasn't PW. It was Susan Stine. The new people at the party were house guests of the Whites. IIRC, it was a brother-in-law, without the sister, and another sister's boyfriend, without that sister either. Both were from California. That's always seemed very strange to me. The men go visit the in-laws for Christmas, but leave the wife & girlfriend who are the relatives, behind in California?

I don't know who did what to JB at that party, but feel pretty sure something did happen. She told JM she didn't feel pretty, and wasn't that the night PR called Dr B several times after hours? I could be wrong about the Dr calls.

What reason could SS have for refusing to open the door for BPD? She talked to them on the intercom. Now BPD really screwed up because they should have insisted on coming in and looking around. If it was a kid's prank, or FW tying to check on the Rx for his mother rolleyes then why not open the door, let them see it's a party and everything is fine, maybe invite them in for a bite to eat? IMO, there was something to hide. SS didn't want them to come face to face with the person that made the call IMO.