James Kolar's New Book Will Blow the Lid off the JonBenet Ramsey Investigation

[OpenMind4U]

Tadpole12,
This does not make sense to me at all. Why would an R want to bludgeon JonBenet and take her down to the basement?

That could all be accomplished with promises of treats and gifts etc.


.

Accident could happens...and JBR wouldn't be able to go to the basement by herself; after such a powerful bash to her head she was probably in comotos condition. Toys or no toys...but what is the most interesting from Kolar statement is 'taking her down to the basement'. BR couldn't be able to cary JBR body to the basement at that point!!! So, who was caring her down to the basement??? PR or JR???

 

[Whaleshark]

Tadpole12,
This does not make sense to me at all. Why would an R want to bludgeon JonBenet and take her down to the basement?

That could all be accomplished with promises of treats and gifts etc.

Only if you're assuming the bludgeoning was to incapacitate her to molest her, and not for any other reason...

The hit on the head could have been out of a fight, or anger, or accident, and the molesting after that, which it probably was, since there was birefringent material in her vag. that could have matched the broken paintbrush, which was broken and done for that part after she was already hit on the head, if the timeline is such that she was hit on the head first anyway....

You must be flexible and not see one thing or the other all the time UK.

Do not hold so tight onto one possibility only, to the exclusion of all others.
...because then you will be often saying that something makes no sense.

 

[UKGuy]

Only if you're assuming the bludgeoning was to incapacitate her to molest her, and not for any other reason...

The hit on the head could have been out of a fight, or anger, or accident, and the molesting after that, which it probably was, since there was birefringent material in her vag. that could have matched the broken paintbrush, which was broken and done for that part after she was already hit on the head, if the timeline is such that she was hit on the head first anyway....

You must be flexible and not see one thing or the other all the time UK.

Do not hold so tight onto one possibility only, to the exclusion of all others.
...because then you will be often saying that something makes no sense.

Whaleshark,
Still does not make sense. I note Kolar says nothing about the acute assault. He is just speculating for the interviewer here, earning his fee.


.

 

[Flatlander]

Okay, I am still fixated on the box of candy smeared with poo.

Aside from the obvious WTF with the smearing, I was wondering about a child even HAVING a box of chocolates in her room?

Maybe it's just me, but I'd never let my DD keep candy in her room....she would inhale it with abandon and she is TEN!

Not if it were poo-covered, but ya know......

We always got a stocking at Christmas and they always contained the same thing every year: Mixed nuts, an apple, an orange, and hershey kisses.

I find it really hard to believe that PR stated that JB had a box she kept candy in and then JB would put poo on it? Why would she want to put poo on her box of candy? Sounds more like vengeance to me.

As for the extra large pants in her room with poo in them, well now that's news as well. I can't help but wonder it that poo belonged to JB or BR. I'm sure LE knows the answer to that question as well as the source of poo on the candy box.

Obviously there was a lot more going on in that house than simple straight forward making it to the bathroom on time issues. Holy Moley, can we say coverup any louder here?

 

[txsvicki]

Accident could happens...and JBR wouldn't be able to go to the basement by herself; after such a powerful bash to her head she was probably in comotos condition. Toys or no toys...but what is the most interesting from Kolar statement is 'taking her down to the basement'. BR couldn't be able to cary JBR body to the basement at that point!!! So, who was caring her down to the basement??? PR or JR???

Do you mean kolar quoting burke who said that jonbenet was quietly taken down to the basement? I'll have to look back at statements, but thought burke said she was quietly "taken" down. It was interesting because it was so similar to john saying he "led." Burke upstairs at bedtime after putting the toys together.

 

[UKGuy]

We always got a stocking at Christmas and they always contained the same thing every year: Mixed nuts, an apple, an orange, and hershey kisses.

I find it really hard to believe that PR stated that JB had a box she kept candy in and then JB would put poo on it? Why would she want to put poo on her box of candy? Sounds more like vengeance to me.

As for the extra large pants in her room with poo in them, well now that's news as well. I can't help but wonder it that poo belonged to JB or BR. I'm sure LE knows the answer to that question as well as the source of poo on the candy box.

Obviously there was a lot more going on in that house than simple straight forward making it to the bathroom on time issues. Holy Moley, can we say coverup any louder here?

Flatlander,
Hey your stocking must have holes in it by now, I'll bet that was a long time ago. Mine used to have monkey nuts in it.

Anyway an innocent explanation for the pants is that JonBenet at one point, sometimes, wore Burke's clothes, I'm assuming as hand-downs. So she could have had an accident and just dumped them, say on the bedroom floor. Similar to her behaviour with the black pants lying on her bathroom floor?

But this assumption should be checked out, its currently a factoid. Precisely why a wealthy family should hand down clothing from brother to sister beats me?

If confirmed then JonBenet was having serious toileting issues, and we all know what that suggests.


.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Flatlander,
Hey your stocking must have holes in it by now, I'll bet that was a long time ago. Mine used to have monkey nuts in it.

Anyway an innocent explanation for the pants is that JonBenet at one point, sometimes, wore Burke's clothes, I'm assuming as hand-downs. So she could have had an accident and just dumped them, say on the bedroom floor. Similar to her behaviour with the black pants lying on her bathroom floor?

But this assumption should be checked out, its currently a factoid. Precisely why a wealthy family should hand down clothing from brother to sister beats me?
If confirmed then JonBenet was having serious toileting issues, and we all know what that suggests.


.

There were some very strange dynamics going on within that family. Things like unnecessary frugality do occur. Just because you have money, doesn't mean you are generous with it.

I personally was surprised at part of PR's interview. I assumed she would be a bit of a clean freak but apparently not. This took me by surprise -

12 THOMAS HANEY: Would she have
13 washed her hands at a particular time?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, at dinner, she
15 rarely washed her hands.
16 THOMAS HANEY: Would she, or
17 perhaps she had been eating crab and you have
18 that slimy stuff all over?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, I think she is
20 going to wash her hands. But I didn't see her.
21 I don't know.

JBR was only a baby, I was still reminding my kids to wash their hands before dinner, especially at guests houses (this sentence refers to Christmas dinner at the Stines). Especially if they were eating possibly with their fingers, like crab.

She seems to have just let JBR set her own standards of hygiene, which I find at odds with the Beauty Queen fussing.

:moo:

 

[DeeDee249]

There were some very strange dynamics going on within that family. Things like unnecessary frugality do occur. Just because you have money, doesn't mean you are generous with it.

I personally was surprised at part of PR's interview. I assumed she would be a bit of a clean freak but apparently not. This took me by surprise -

12 THOMAS HANEY: Would she have
13 washed her hands at a particular time?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, at dinner, she
15 rarely washed her hands.
16 THOMAS HANEY: Would she, or
17 perhaps she had been eating crab and you have
18 that slimy stuff all over?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, I think she is
20 going to wash her hands. But I didn't see her.
21 I don't know.

JBR was only a baby, I was still reminding my kids to wash their hands before dinner, especially at guests houses (this sentence refers to Christmas dinner at the Stines). Especially if they were eating possibly with their fingers, like crab.

She seems to have just let JBR set her own standards of hygiene, which I find at odds with the Beauty Queen fussing.

:moo:

Patsy's general messiness, untidiness and lack of concern over her kids' bathing and hygiene are at odds with the public face (very well made up face, at that) of Southern charm. Impeccable dressing, big jewelry, good handbags, etc. Nedra once commented on the diamond ring of another woman, calling it a "nice little 'starter' ring". Patsy's home was much more showy than what was usual in Boulder. People who took that Christmas house tour (a few YEARS before JB's murder) commented on it being pretentious and over-the-top. With her, it was all about outward appearances.
She did say that before a pageant, JB was given a "pageant scrub"- bubble bath, nails cleaned and clipped, shampoo, (and most likely highlights). Between pageants, I get the feeling JB wasn't tended to as often as a kid who poops their pants should have been.

 

[OpenMind4U]

Do you mean kolar quoting burke who said that jonbenet was quietly taken down to the basement? I'll have to look back at statements, but thought burke said she was quietly "taken" down. It was interesting because it was so similar to john saying he "led." Burke upstairs at bedtime after putting the toys together.

No. I was refering to Kolar's statement during his radio interview couple days ago. When asked: 'so, do you think it was kidnapping?' Kolar's response was something like this: 'In some degree it was kidnapping because in my opinion after they (Ramseys) came home in the evening, horrible accident happens in the kitchen or dinning room. And after that, JBR was taken to the basement. So, you can call this kidnapping because if someone is TAKEN without his/her concensus - you can call it kidnapping'. Not exectly word by word, but this what Kolar said during the radio interview on August 2.

 

[Chrishope]

No. I was refering to Kolar's statement during his radio interview couple days ago. When asked: 'so, do you think it was kidnapping?' Kolar's response was something like this: 'In some degree it was kidnapping because in my opinion after they (Ramseys) came home in the evening, horrible accident happens in the kitchen or dinning room. And after that, JBR was taken to the basement. So, you can call this kidnapping because if someone is TAKEN without his/her concensus - you can call it kidnapping'. Not exectly word by word, but this what Kolar said during the radio interview on August 2.

This doesn't make sense. I realize Kolar is a Sheriff, but this just doesn't make sense. When I carry an 6 month old baby from one room to another the baby cannot consent, yet no one thinks that's kidnapping. Carrying a sleeping 6 year old up to bed (not that I'm saying that's what happened in this case) does not place any parent in danger of prosecution for kidnapping, even though the 6 year old did not consent.

Either Kolar is being too cryptic (to cryptic for me at any rate) or his words have been misunderstood. I keep seeing this repeated, and I think we need to clear up this comment.

 

[otg]

Flatlander,
Hey your stocking must have holes in it by now, I'll bet that was a long time ago. Mine used to have monkey nuts in it.

.

Monkey nuts? Monkey nuts?

Dude, I know there are regional terms for different things, and I know you know what peanuts are, but you gotta stop using that term for what you mean. Really.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Monkey Nuts
.

 

[OpenMind4U]

This doesn't make sense. I realize Kolar is a Sheriff, but this just doesn't make sense. When I carry an 6 month old baby from one room to another the baby cannot consent, yet no one thinks that's kidnapping. Carrying a sleeping 6 year old up to bed (not that I'm saying that's what happened in this case) does not place any parent in danger of prosecution for kidnapping, even though the 6 year old did not consent.

Either Kolar is being too cryptic (to cryptic for me at any rate) or his words have been misunderstood. I keep seeing this repeated, and I think we need to clear up this comment.

My response was based on what I heard. If Mr. Kolar was 'cryptic' - is OK for me. Maybe he was simply sarcastic?? One way or another, please listen the Boyles radio interview with Mr. Kolar and let us know your take on this comment. I was more interested on his opinion of the sequences of the events. Not about his definition of the 'kidnapping'.......

 

[Unreals]

I don't have the book yet. Does Kolar discuss the 911 call placed a few days before Christmas? I've suspected that somehow that is connected....

 

[otg]

This doesn't make sense. I realize Kolar is a Sheriff, but this just doesn't make sense. When I carry an 6 month old baby from one room to another the baby cannot consent, yet no one thinks that's kidnapping. Carrying a sleeping 6 year old up to bed (not that I'm saying that's what happened in this case) does not place any parent in danger of prosecution for kidnapping, even though the 6 year old did not consent.

Either Kolar is being too cryptic (to cryptic for me at any rate) or his words have been misunderstood. I keep seeing this repeated, and I think we need to clear up this comment.

I think the difference in the circumstances you refer to as opposed to what happened to JBR is intent. IOW what was your purpose in either moving or detaining the person? If it was for the purpose of gaining a ransom, it is kidnapping, even if the person is being held (detained) in their own home. If the person is removed or detained for the purpose of committing a sexual offense, that too is kidnapping.
.

 

[otg]

More, if you care to read:
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/kidnapping

...and specifically, Colorado law:
http://kidnapping.uslegal.com/state-kidnapping-abduction-laws/colorado-kidnappingabduction-laws/
.

 

[DeeDee249]

monkey nuts? Monkey nuts?

Dude, i know there are regional terms for different things, and i know you know what peanuts are, but you gotta stop using that term for what you mean. Really.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=monkey nuts
.

lmao!!!

 

[Pensfan]

that house was a germ factory

Yep, and don't you know that sent outwardly-appearing Perfect Patsy into rages. The inappropriate pooping and peeing was done exactly for that reason, IMO.

Contrary to what this law enforcement officer wrote, encopresis and fecal smearing are due to psychological problems, such as Oppositional Defiant Disorder or Conduct Disorder, which are often a type of parental control attempt by the child (passive aggression.) Both also occur in depressed children. These can be a symptom of sexual abuse but this is an extremely rare presentation of sexual abuse in children.

Children may also participate in this behavior because their bodily functions are sometimes the only things they can personally control when they have a super over-controlling parent (Perfect Patsy).

It is not uncommon for children that withhold feces or smear it to get admitted to psych hospitals. Guess what happens after they are separated from the parent who they are trying to punish or the parent who is extremely controlling? They begin to use the bathroom appropriately within days of separation from the pathological home situation.

I can see Patsy scrubbing JB EVERYWHERE in the bathtub (digital damage?) and there are documented psych cases where the mother did this to her child. I will try to post them later on here.

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

 

[Linda7NJ]

We always got a stocking at Christmas and they always contained the same thing every year: Mixed nuts, an apple, an orange, and hershey kisses.

I find it really hard to believe that PR stated that JB had a box she kept candy in and then JB would put poo on it? Why would she want to put poo on her box of candy? Sounds more like vengeance to me.

As for the extra large pants in her room with poo in them, well now that's news as well. I can't help but wonder it that poo belonged to JB or BR. I'm sure LE knows the answer to that question as well as the source of poo on the candy box.

Obviously there was a lot more going on in that house than simple straight forward making it to the bathroom on time issues. Holy Moley, can we say coverup any louder here?

imo whoever was molesting her probably gave her candy

 

[DeeDee249]

Yep, and don't you know that sent outwardly-appearing Perfect Patsy into rages. The inappropriate pooping and peeing was done exactly for that reason, IMO.

Contrary to what this law enforcement officer wrote, encopresis and fecal smearing are due to psychological problems, such as Oppositional Defiant Disorder or Conduct Disorder, which are often a type of parental control attempt by the child (passive aggression.) Both also occur in depressed children. These can be a symptom of sexual abuse but this is an extremely rare presentation of sexual abuse in children.

Children may also participate in this behavior because their bodily functions are sometimes the only things they can personally control when they have a super over-controlling parent (Perfect Patsy).

It is not uncommon for children that withhold feces or smear it to get admitted to psych hospitals. Guess what happens after they are separated from the parent who they are trying to punish or the parent who is extremely controlling? They begin to use the bathroom appropriately within days of separation from the pathological home situation.

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

Boy, you must have a field day with the people in this case!

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yep, and don't you know that sent outwardly-appearing Perfect Patsy into rages. The inappropriate pooping and peeing was done exactly for that reason, IMO.

Contrary to what this law enforcement officer wrote, encopresis and fecal smearing are due to psychological problems, such as Oppositional Defiant Disorder or Conduct Disorder, which are often a type of parental control attempt by the child (passive aggression.) Both also occur in depressed children. These can be a symptom of sexual abuse but this is an extremely rare presentation of sexual abuse in children.

Children may also participate in this behavior because their bodily functions are sometimes the only things they can personally control when they have a super over-controlling parent (Perfect Patsy).

It is not uncommon for children that withhold feces or smear it to get admitted to psych hospitals. Guess what happens after they are separated from the parent who they are trying to punish or the parent who is extremely controlling? They begin to use the bathroom appropriately within days of separation from the pathological home situation.

I can see Patsy scrubbing JB EVERYWHERE in the bathtub (digital damage?) and there are documented psych cases where the mother did this to her child. I will try to post them later on here.

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

RBM I disagree. In my experience, it's quite common when the perpetrator resides within the victim's home. It tends to be used as a shield of sorts, an attempt to make themselves unattractive to the molester.