KC KNEW that Caylee was dead ALL ALONG!?!?

[Pink Panther]

This was no accident. If this were an accident then 1) Why lie about GA being there and disposing of the body? Why not tell the truth about wanting it to look like a crime. At least the would have more credibility then GA hiding the body that RK found and hid again.
2) Why no change in her demeanor. Even if she didn't tell anyone wouldn't she be even a little sad that her friends might have wondered what was wrong? Why spend the day in bed with your boyfriend if the baby you loved had died the day before in an accident? She obviously has the ability to feel sad for herself, why wouldn't she feel sad at losing her child if it didn't benefit her? She was celebrating the whole month Caylee was gone until she got arrested.
You do have a point, though. If JB had played this right the accidental death might have at least created some reasonable doubt if he didn't get greedy and try to create a scenario where KC had absolutely no culpability. I still can't think of a single reasonable explanation of her total lack of concern though. Obviously the PTSD or whatever from her supposed sexual abuse isn't flying.

I agree with you 100%. I also think that the Defence will go one step further to imply that GA tried to frame his daughter in his grand-daughter's death. Talk about throwing whatever is possible against the wall to see what will stick! That is exactly what they're doing.

moo

 

[4realtho]

Absolutely not! IMO, volunteers and people who donate money should be more careful! There are some evil people out there.

I do have a question though. Are people shocked ICA knew her daughter was dead the entire time? Or are they shocked she is admiting it?

I'm not shocked that ICA knew her daughter was dead, to me that was obvious. I'm not shocked that she is admitting it, she was at the end of the hallway and the DT had to come up with something. What I am shocked about is the ridicious theory (junk science) the DT has come up with that defies logic and expects the public to buy it .

 

[Baznme]

This was no accident. If this were an accident then 1) Why lie about GA being there and disposing of the body? Why not tell the truth about wanting it to look like a crime. At least the would have more credibility then GA hiding the body that RK found and hid again.
2) Why no change in her demeanor. Even if she didn't tell anyone wouldn't she be even a little sad that her friends might have wondered what was wrong? Why spend the day in bed with your boyfriend if the baby you loved had died the day before in an accident? She obviously has the ability to feel sad for herself, why wouldn't she feel sad at losing her child if it didn't benefit her? She was celebrating the whole month Caylee was gone until she got arrested.
You do have a point, though. If JB had played this right the accidental death might have at least created some reasonable doubt if he didn't get greedy and try to create a scenario where KC had absolutely no culpability. I still can't think of a single reasonable explanation of her total lack of concern though. Obviously the PTSD or whatever from her supposed sexual abuse isn't flying.

I said "possibly" an accident. I also said "It's beyond me how JB and his wife had dinner at the A's dinner table when ICA was bonded out the first time if he OR GA already knew Caylee was gone" and how. It doesn't make any sense. How could he do that if he knew Caylee was already dead and in GA's home no less? The one he now accuses of orchestrating the concealment of his grandaughters demise. Talk about character flaws if that actually was the case.

If JB had kept his explanation to what I just described, he would be serving his client a better defense than what he put forth. She is a sociopath, no doubt in my mind. Her celebration of her new found freedom in the 31 days tends to show she wasn't missing her child much at all but I tend to want to give her the benefit of the doubt as a premeditated murder just goes against the grain of what I have experienced as a mother or any other mother I have ever known. Either it was an accident or she is a monster. I waver from one end to the other at times but that is just me and my opinion only.

 

[Pink Panther]

What about the rest of it? The fact that not one person would ever guess that something was troubling her. If she was so upset she didn't want to part with the body why wasn't anyone able to detect a hint of that? I don't think she is that good of an actress.

Why is sociopathy never brought up in court? "Multiple personality disorder" is allowed but not Sociopathy? Is it because MPD serves to protect a defendant and sociopathy doesn't? What scales do our justice system sustain? Casey is an A-CLASS sociopath. She is not insane. She knows what she is doing. What she has done. She is culpable yet there is no legal nomenclature for what she is.


moo

 

[AvalonBlue]

Maybe they LE is giving JB enough rope to hang himself and not doing anything yet. But I can't believe this would be ok. Balloon boy is a perfect example!
However, I think they came up with this as a plan now because it was the only thing they could come up. I think they were counting on lots of evidence not coming in. Once everything was allowed in, they changed plans...5 or 6 weeks ago...that's when GA was informed he was going to be accused apparently. I don't believe for one minute that it was an accidental drowning. They just had nothing else and it was too late to plea out. Nevertheless, since they are saying that this is what happened they should face some repercussions for it or some financial burden. MOO

BBM

I totally agree, manatee!

Although I have followed this case to some degree over the last three years, I just joined WS last June after Kyron went missing -- and I've learned SO MUCH more detail about the Anthony case because of all the past and present diligent sleuthing of loyal WSers. :rocker:

I've been "cramming" for the trial ever since January. I must say, however, that I never really saw JB in action (if you can call it that) until jury selection and now the actual trial.

I never knew I could experience such a wide range of intense and negative feelings in such a short period of time until subjecting myself to watching, listening, and trying to make some sense out of all that is JB. :waitasec:

It is so hard to watch him. It is so embarrassing to watch him. It is however, not boring to watch him. :rollercoaster:

I keep feeling like I'm watching a r-e-a-l-l-y long skit on Saturday Night Live -- complete of course with great lines like, "Did you also talk on the phone with each other while you were apart?" as JB asked one of ICA's boyfriends earlier this week. :laugh:

I don't believe a word of JB's "bombshell" opening statement and it was embarrassing to watch him bumble through like he was making it up as he went along -- which he was probably was -- and what he has probably been doing ever since he became ICA's attorney.

IMO, JB clearly has a specialty when it comes to practicing law -- it's "Fly By the Seat of Your Pants and Carry a Big Calendar."
:loser:

 

[LolaMoon08]

We're not talking about one piece of duct tape applied to Caylee's face to look like a kidnapping. We are talking about three long pieces of duct tape applied to Caylee's face. If it were one, then fine, I may be able to accept an accident covered up to look like 1st degree murder (even though that doesn't explain why she would put Caylee in trash bags from her home, a laundry bag from her home, a blanket from her home, and put her in a shirt that says "Big Trouble Comes In Small Packages.")... but I can not accept three pieces of duct tape. That is excessive and I think it proves that Casey wanted Caylee dead. Not to mention there is a fourth piece that we don't know where it was applied.

And let's be honest, if it were an accident, then she would not have had to make up these wild allegations of George covering up an accident and framing her for murder. She would not need to say Roy Kronk found Caylee's body, kept Caylee's body for a few months, and then placed Caylee at Suburban Drive. If it were an accident, she would not need these crazy subplots.

Also, Casey's defense had their own expert do an autopsy on Caylee's remains. They all knew it was an accident and from what I understand, it could have been proven if Caylee died from drowning. So until Casey's expert witness, who performed that independent autopsy, gets up on that stand and proves it... it is a LIE.

Suing Casey would be nice... her defense has admitted that Casey knew Caylee was deceased on June 16th, 2008. They could probably sue her for costs, etc... but why spend the money on it when they will never see a penny. Unless they can prove George and Cindy knew Caylee was deceased, then they shouldn't sue them either.

 

[smart blonde]

I agree with you 100%. I also think that the Defence will go one step further to imply that GA tried to frame his daughter in his grand-daughter's death. Talk about throwing whatever is possible against the wall to see what will stick! That is exactly what they're doing.

moo

(Bolding by smart blonde)

I never would have thought of that, but now that I've read it, I think there is a very good chance that is where they are headed.

That really pulls the direction of Baez' despicable questioning together for me.

 

[SuziQ]

Now I want to revisit ICA's jail tapes (if I can stomach viewing them again).

Remember the one where Casey starts laughing because Cindy is crying?
I have no words.

I remember that. I wanna know what LA meant when he asked Casey if this is like the last time. Whaaaa?

 

[crucibelle]

all this can be discussed till the cows come home, but you can't explain away three pieces of duct tape over little Caylee's face, this folks is Murder One, how can a taped face to prevent breathing be an accident.

Respectfully, I don't think that was the point of the original post & subsequent discussion, at all.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I agree with you 100%. I also think that the Defence will go one step further to imply that GA tried to frame his daughter in his grand-daughter's death. Talk about throwing whatever is possible against the wall to see what will stick! That is exactly what they're doing.

moo

They have already implied that George is framing Casey. They're blaming George for the duct tape and the smell in the car. Wait until they use Casey's text messages against him... you know the ones that say George ran over dead animal?? It's already started.

Casey is one vile monster!

 

[Atlanta PI]

In the beginning JB was trying to push accidental death by overdose. Now it is accidental drowning. WTf? Wouldn't she need to take the stand to get the jury to consider this for real?

Do we really think that will fly? It is kind of scaring me that she may get off of this with Manslaughter. Her parents have to be totally sick at this point. Have they adjusted now, after two and 3/4 years of no guilt on ICA's part, to hearing in fact that their grand daughter died and was in fact dead from the beginning in their pool?

They are still sitting there on her side. I would never want to be in their shoes. It is so very very tragic.

 

[4realtho]

I also think that GA/CA KNEW after smelling the car that Caylee was deceased, yet played the game for ICA and made money off a dead grand daughter.
This also should be punishable by state.
Wonder if GA/CA paid their taxes on their profits?
IRS may go after them also............never know, huh?

Yes, they knew and they took money knowing that Caylee was no longer alive as well as going on national tv throwing innocent people under the bus. I'm glad that GA has refused to fall on the sword for ICA but I don't think he is doing it for Caylee, he's doing it to save his self. When I look back on his actions throughout this case, it's bitter sweet. As far as CA, we will soon see. This case is truly a sad affair. Forgive me for going slightly OT.

 

[AvalonBlue]

Which begs the question, why is Cheney Mason there at all?

I think the only truthful thing about JB's opening statement probably is that Caylee was dead on June 16th and that Casey admits to that. Sadly, I don't know if we'll ever know the truth of how she died.

I can't help but think CM is only there because he hasn't really heard what's happening where he is -- or perhaps even where he is. I sure know I heard him self-identify and accuse the press of elder abuse during that sidewalk altercation this week. Perhaps he was really channeling what his opening remarks will be when he takes JB to court for elder abuse after he reads the transcripts regarding the circus trial he's involved in...(and actually predicted!)
:winkaway:

P.S. I'm an elder myself, so please consider the source. :truce:

 

[4realtho]

I do think it was possibly an pool accident. She was on the computer or the phone (texting) or talking and just wasn't paying attention. The baby drowned and she would not, could not take the responsibility for it so she staged it as a kidnapping. We know she's never been responsible in her adult life, so it's not too far fetched to think she could create all this in her head. The duct tape came in after the body began leaking fluids. She carried her around in the trunk looking for a safe place to hide the body so she wouldn't be implicated. She chose the wrong spot as it turned out to make her very conspicuous but I believe Blanchard Park was a consideration.

She was already good at lying, so the lies took on a life of their own and continued even to her attorneys, LE, her family and everyone else. I don't think JB even knew until the last couple of months that she knew from day one Caylee had died on 6/16/2008. It's beyond me how JB and his wife had dinner at the A's dinner table when ICA was bonded out the first time if he OR GA already knew Caylee was gone and how. It doesn't make any sense. Am I shocked! No, I believed she knew all the while. What I am shocked with is JB taking this road trying to keep her from the DP. IMO, he's already blown it.

But how do we explain the computer searches?

 

[crucibelle]

KC knew Caylee was dead because she killed her. If she could have milked TonE's attention over an accidental death, made him promise not to move to NY or maybe even marry her and carry her away, she would have. She would have played the victim card for everything it was worth and reported her dad to LE for disposing of her daughter.

I don't think anyone would have felt sorry for her or seen her as a victim, because IF (and that's a big "if") Caylee drowned in the pool, it is almost certainly because ICA was too busy playing on the computer or texting one of her various <mod snip> to be keeping a close eye on Caylee.

 

[AvalonBlue]

RSBM; this is such a good question. If Casey had revealed this from the beginning, I would have been shocked by neither. But I am shocked at her admission at this late date. I don't believe this fable any more than I believed her multiple variations of the ZFG tales. If this were all true she could have more easily just reported the accidental drowning to LE. She claims she didn't because she was scared of George? Well then, she could have just left him entirely out of the picture.

Guess I am shocked (and offended) that the deception they are trying to pull is so late and loosely hung together that it's an insult to any sane person's intelligence.:cow:

BBM

ITA

The thank you button just wasn't enough!

 

[katydid23]

I think she staged the body to look like child was kidnapped and duct taped. I think that was her plan in case the body was found right away. A premeditated murderer is not going to drive around with her daughters body in the car as long as she did. To me that shows she couldnt part with the child until she absolutely had to. jmo

She couldn't bear to part with her child's dead body, but she could bear to wrap 3 pieces of industrial duct tape around her face? And wrap her in three garbage bags?

 

[crucibelle]

On the subject of JB knowing that Caylee was dead all along and not telling anyone, therefore thousands of dollars being spent on searching, following tips, and donations for the search: Couldn't he just claim attorney client privledge? I don't know if that would be the case, which is why I'm asking.

 

[4realtho]

We're not talking about one piece of duct tape applied to Caylee's face to look like a kidnapping. We are talking about three long pieces of duct tape applied to Caylee's face. If it were one, then fine, I may be able to accept an accident covered up to look like 1st degree murder (even though that doesn't explain why she would put Caylee in trash bags from her home, a laundry bag from her home, a blanket from her home, and put her in a shirt that says "Big Trouble Comes In Small Packages.")... but I can not accept three pieces of duct tape. That is excessive and I think it proves that Casey wanted Caylee dead. Not to mention there is a fourth piece that we don't know where it was applied.

And let's be honest, if it were an accident, then she would not have had to make up these wild allegations of George covering up an accident and framing her for murder. She would not need to say Roy Kronk found Caylee's body, kept Caylee's body for a few months, and then placed Caylee at Suburban Drive. If it were an accident, she would not need these crazy subplots. Also, Casey's defense had their own expert do an autopsy on Caylee's remains. They all knew it was an accident and from what I understand, it could have been proven if Caylee died from drowning. So until Casey's expert witness, who performed that independent autopsy, gets up on that stand and proves it... it is a LIE.

Suing Casey would be nice... her defense has admitted that Casey knew Caylee was deceased on June 16th, 2008. They could probably sue her for costs, etc... but why spend the money on it when they will never see a penny. Unless they can prove George and Cindy knew Caylee was deceased, then they shouldn't sue them either.

:thumb:

 

[Bforster]

I for one do NOT believe that GA or CA knew ANYTHING about the death of Caylee.
NO way would any grandfather that happened upon the granddaughter floating lifelessly in the pool would not come completely unglued!! George may have said some “untruths” in hopes of saving his daughters life and in just plain denial (after all who would want to believe that your daughter could harm your granddaughter) BUT NO WAY did he know that Caylee was dead in the woods by his house. I do believe that when GA and CA were all alone in bed at night that they had discussed the possibility that the smell in the trunk of the car was the baby girl. And that just kept talking themselfs out of the whole scenario. All that being said… JB has said from the beginning “everyone will go OHHHHHHH and would completely understand” in the first few seconds of his opening statement. So when did he know that his client killed her daughter??? Did she tell him right away or were the cards stacking against her and all those attorneys working pro bono help him to come up with this whopper of an UNTRUTH!!!! If they all knew then they should all at least pay the state of Florida, TES and the Orange County government what they spent on wild goose chase… I am so mad when I think about the money people have spent and the time that could have been used in another missing child’s case… Lord knows there are enough of them out there that need public exposure. I keep going back to what Grandmother Shirley said “ Casey hates her mom more then she loves her daughter” And I do believe the grandmother….