KS KS - DENNIS LYNN RADER, BTK Serial Killer

[Sassygerl]

Doesn't mean it was his wife.
Hell, the perv probably spent a good deal of time tying up Boy Scouts as part of his Scout Master duties, teaching them how to tie knots.

Or maybe his daughter. I'm still curious about Kerri's husbands blog that talked about her waking him up every night with her screaming...she was having nightmares. This was written before he was captured.

He also had his Barbie collection that obviously occupied him some.....twisted!

 

[Becba]

LE did state something along the lines "when he didn't have a willing partner" for bondage. This is practically saying that he did have a partner at times for binding him and whatever.

His wife was likely submissive in personality and became submissive in bed.
It is obvious they did not play out his fantasies to much extent or she would be dead.
His obsession involved dead bodies and masterbation. Not much need for a willing partner when he didn't seem to require a living person during the actual sex. Likely, he spent most of his time playing with himself in his fantasy world and rarely had sex with his wife. When he did sleep with her it was probably as Rader attempting to be a normal guy.
I gotta say, with all the drawings and photos and such, she had to have none he had a strange side to him.

 

[concernedperson]

His wife was likely submissive in personality and became submissive in bed.
It is obvious they did not play out his fantasies to much extent or she would be dead.
His obsession involved dead bodies and masterbation. Not much need for a willing partner when he didn't seem to require a living person during the actual sex. Likely, he spent most of his time playing with himself in his fantasy world and rarely had sex with his wife. When he did sleep with her it was probably as Rader attempting to be a normal guy.
I gotta say, with all the drawings and photos and such, she had to have none he had a strange side to him.

As much as I feel Paula was a victim in this I am beginning to "see" another side.But that side may not be what we know.....how many people actually go to crime forums to learn? Do they just live their lives wondering with no resolve, no understanding and no resolve. Do they think they are crazy? Most would just say....oh, that is my family, nutty....but so is everyone else's. I am cutting some slack here but there are clues if someone wanted to follow them. The problem is most people let it slide.

 

[Becba]

As much as I feel Paula was a victim in this I am beginning to "see" another side.But that side may not be what we know.....how many people actually go to crime forums to learn? Do they just live their lives wondering with no resolve, no understanding and no resolve. Do they think they are crazy? Most would just say....oh, that is my family, nutty....but so is everyone else's. I am cutting some slack here but there are clues if someone wanted to follow them. The problem is most people let it slide.

I think she was "trained" not to question Rader over the years. Not to say he beat her, just that if you never get a satisfactory answer out of someone you learn it's does no good to ask.
She was happy with her life. She had a husband, 2 kids, a home, her church etc.
As long as he didn't abuse her or the kids, why rock the boat?
He couldn't have been emotionally supportive. Over the years she likely became conditioned to the gap in their relationship and accepted it as how things were to be. He was controlling acording to many people that ran into his nitpicking about dogs and saw him actually measure their grass with a ruler. I can see her feeling it was better to turn a blind eye than have to deal with him. He only sees his side of things, as apparent by his confession. To raise an issue would get her no where.
I think questioning him about the poem was an indication she knew the closed off side of him could be hiding something sinister. She just did not want to pursue it. As you say, she just let it slide.

 

[txsvicki]

Doesn't mean it was his wife.
Hell, the perv probably spent a good deal of time tying up Boy Scouts as part of his Scout Master duties, teaching them how to tie knots.

That's not in the context of how they, LE, said it, it's in the transcripts. No prostitutes, s&m clubs, or anyone has stepped forward claiming to have been a willing partner for Rader.

He was very orderly and putting things in order,
8 taking photographs of that. He would -- he would take
9 these dolls, tie them up. He would actually paint on
10 them to make them look older, whether it be pubic
11 hair, eyelashes, darker hair on some occasions. And
12 then he would tie them up and photograph them in
13 different types acts so he could fantasize between his
14 kills. He could use this as a fantasy rather than --
15 because he did not have a compliant partner right
16 then, he would use these dolls to feed his sexual
17 fantasy, he would state.

 

[Becba]

That's not in the context of how they, LE, said it, it's in the transcripts. No prostitutes, s&m clubs, or anyone has stepped forward claiming to have been a willing partner for Rader.

It is hard to say what goes on in a couples bedroom. I just don't see his wife putting up with any real bondage. Perhaps mild role playing.

Did Paula deny him sex for months at a time?
I do know when Paula was pregnant with one of her children Rader did kill. I don't remember which child or victim now. A comparison of the birth dates and killings does match up though. ( I lost all my links for research)
I thought it was horrid he would kill with a pregnant wife. Now I think this may have been what the LE was referring to. They may have not had sex in the later months of her pregnancies. Even her being pregnant may have been a turn off and he went into his trolling mode.

 

[txsvicki]

Yes, but compliant means submissive. I see that transcript in the context of how it's used, fantasy and bondage. When he did not have a submissive partner, he used the dolls which he tied up. I think Rader would have killed no matter what kind of sex he was getting or how much at home especially since he was hanging himself and animals long before ever marrying. But on the other hand, the investigator says that this is what Rader stated. Surely Rader doesn't think that all his victims were actually submitting. There's no telling what he meant by that. Maybe even trying to give his wife a bad name, which I think he has tried to do in some of his statements.

 

[Becba]

Yes, but compliant means submissive. I see that transcript in the context of how it's used, fantasy and bondage. When he did not have a submissive partner, he used the dolls which he tied up. I think Rader would have killed no matter what kind of sex he was getting or how much at home especially since he was hanging himself and animals long before ever marrying. But on the other hand, the investigator says that this is what Rader stated. Surely Rader doesn't think that all his victims were actually submitting. There's no telling what he meant by that. Maybe even trying to give his wife a bad name, which I think he has tried to do in some of his statements.

No Idea but i think submisive in the purest form to BTK meant dead.
Dead body.
No role playing. No physical reaction. Just a dead body was what he liked.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

I think she was "trained" not to question Rader over the years. Not to say he beat her, just that if you never get a satisfactory answer out of someone you learn it's does no good to ask.
She was happy with her life. She had a husband, 2 kids, a home, her church etc.
As long as he didn't abuse her or the kids, why rock the boat?
He couldn't have been emotionally supportive. Over the years she likely became conditioned to the gap in their relationship and accepted it as how things were to be. He was controlling acording to many people that ran into his nitpicking about dogs and saw him actually measure their grass with a ruler. I can see her feeling it was better to turn a blind eye than have to deal with him. He only sees his side of things, as apparent by his confession. To raise an issue would get her no where.
I think questioning him about the poem was an indication she knew the closed off side of him could be hiding something sinister. She just did not want to pursue it. As you say, she just let it slide.

I can easily imagine him raining down a stream of verbal abuse on her if she did question him: "You're stupid", "You're crazy", ""Who are you to think that?", "You don't know what you're talking about", "What are you, an idiot?"
etc. etc. etc.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Yes, but compliant means submissive. I see that transcript in the context of how it's used, fantasy and bondage. When he did not have a submissive partner, he used the dolls which he tied up. I think Rader would have killed no matter what kind of sex he was getting or how much at home especially since he was hanging himself and animals long before ever marrying. But on the other hand, the investigator says that this is what Rader stated. Surely Rader doesn't think that all his victims were actually submitting. There's no telling what he meant by that. Maybe even trying to give his wife a bad name, which I think he has tried to do in some of his statements.

Actually, as deluded as this man seems to be, he might have considered what he did to these women as "consensual". Since he didn't have to kill them to tie them up, in his mind they "let him" do it to them. Ick.

 

[concernedperson]

Actually, as deluded as this man seems to be, he might have considered what he did to these women as "consensual". Since he didn't have to kill them to tie them up, in his mind they "let him" do it to them. Ick.

Actually, this is brilliant.And another avenue to explore.

 

[pacific]

He said in court, I believe, that Shirley Vian and he had together given toys to her children, in the bathroom, while "they" went into another room. I got the chilling sense that Rader felt that Shirley was somehow accompanying him willingly... Talk about self-delusion!

When they discussed the murders of the Otero family, I had the impression that what he got the most pleasure from, was watching his victim die slowly while he masturbated. Josie Otero, age 11, for instance. He hung her just far enough off the floor so that she could reach the floor with her tip-toes. He watched her slowly struggle and hang to death. He loved this. He masturbated.

I'm not sure what he got out of the dead bodies themselves, such as his taking Marine Hedge's dead body to the church, to photograph it. Is that where he got most of his sick needs met? By being with dead bodies, masturbating or whatever? I thought that his necrophilic stuff had more to do with helping him to remember the 'pleasure' of killing them, slowly.....and how that was linked to his sexuality.

I understand why he feels he is a Christian. How on earth he could hang himself as a hobby before marriage, yet never share this little pastime with his wife-to-be, before their wedding day, is beyond me. He is about as insane as I can imagine. He is also sane enough to know very well what NOT to tell. But the disservice he did to his wife-to-be was so appalling. I lack words for it.

:banghead:

 

[tybee204]

Link to Archived Forum Read Only
http://websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=56

 

[mysteriew]

Right after Dennis Rader was arrested many people noticed Catch BTK website creator Tom Voight was nowhere to be found. That's because he was serving a jail sentence for stalking.

According to a state offender website, Voight was in the Multinomah County Jail in Portland, Oregon for stalking a woman. A clerk with the Multinomah County Courthouse says Voight was convicted for multiple violations of a protection from stalking order. On February 11, he was sentenced to six months in jail and five years probation. He was released on May 23rd.
http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/1735321.html

 

[indigomood]

http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/1728926.html

The assessed value of the house was $85,900. The Rader’s listed it at $72,500.

No one seemed willing to pay more than $35,000 for the serial killer’s former home.

Finally the property sold. A man bought it over the phone for $40,000.

The buyer is a known real estate investor who enjoys buying and selling homes. No word yet on what he’ll do with it.

 

[mysteriew]

Lawmakers in Washington, D.C., said Thursday that they will try to close a loophole in a law that would allow convicted BTK serial killer Dennis Rader to be buried in a national military cemetery.

At a hearing of the Senate Veterans' Affairs Committee, Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, said he would introduce legislation to ensure that people such as Rader, an honorably discharged Air Force veteran, wouldn't be buried alongside military heroes.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/12719343.htm

 

[mysteriew]

But she wasn't prepared for the amount of time she'd be required to spend with a man who viewed people as objects - with no more value than a piece of paper or a discarded penny.

"He needed to talk, so I'm the one he talked to," McKinnon said.

For five to six hours every day, McKinnon was a handler, counselor, confidante and companion. It was her job to keep Rader occupied, to listen to his concerns for his family and to keep him from receiving the media attention he so desperately craved.

"I spent the most time with him, by far," McKinnon said. "For the first couple of months, I spent nearly every day with him."

McKinnon said her time with Rader would've been easier if he had been the sort of hideously disfigured monster that matched the piles of evidence she read at the office.

Instead, she sat just inches away and talked daily with a Boy Scout leader, a church president, a family man and a community-minded citizen who repeatedly told investigators that when he wasn't murdering people, he was really a likable person.

"He wasn't what I expected," McKinnon recalled. "The person I met was human, not the image that was on the media. He was courteous, polite, considerate and easy to deal with."

But McKinnon had difficulty reconciling the two sides of Rader that she was forced to mold into one person.

"Mentally, it was challenging to have those two things co-exist," McKinnon said. "It would've been easier emotionally to process the things he had done if he wasn't the human being I saw."

http://www.hutchnews.com/news/local/stories/mckinnon092505.html

 

[concernedperson]

I won't quote the whole post but I understand it. Either you feel you have a duty to another human being or you are sucked into it because you are family is the same difference. The stride is to stay away from these inhumans because everytime they have a way to figure you in to their own resolve.Very dangerous breed and not to be handled for the least reticent.

 

[mysteriew]

If you remember during Rader's trial, Joseph Otero- Charlie Otero's son was in a car accident which resulted in a head injury and coma. I contacted Dave Grant to inquire about an update on his condition. Here is the email reply I got:
here's a story we aired on September 19

THE SON OF TWO OF DENNIS RADERS VICTIMS GETS SOME GOOD NEWS TODAY.
CHARLIE OTEROS SON WAS IN A SERIOUS CAR ACCIDENT IN WISCONSIN AS CHARLIE OTERO WAS ATTENDING RADERS SENTENCING HEARING. OVER THE WEEKEND, 16 YEAR OLD, JOSEPH OTERO WOKE UP FROM BEING IN A COMA. OTERO, WHOS SON IS NAMED AFTER HIS MURDERED FATHER , HAD NEVER MET HIS SON BEFORE THE ACCIDENT.

 

[mysteriew]

The husband and two children of BTK murder victim Vicki Wegerle speak for the first time on national television about how that event changed their lives over the past 21 years.

Bill Wegerle and his now-grown children, Stephanie and Brandon, tell their story on CBS' "48 Hours Mystery" at 9 p.m. Saturday on KWCH, Channel 12.

For years after the 1986 murder of his wife, Wegerle continued to be a suspect, he told correspondent Erin Moriarty.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/special_packages/btk/12782557.htm