GUILTY KY - Trey Zwicker, 14, beaten to death, Louisville, 11 May 2011 #1

[Irisha]

:what: What's your definition of "wanted"?

Tyler Holder shirt he wore at Alanna's memorial.:tears:

 

[lonetraveler]

So, when did Mom have Trey accounted for until 1:00 a.m.? It was until 10, not 1 a.m.

I find it odd that Trey would try pot for the first time on the night of his murder. If it were in his blood, then I would say he was a pot smoker, but it was only in his urine, so he smoked it for the first time right before he was murdered? Somethings not right with that. JMO

I thought that JG had given both boys pot inside Easter Eggs prior to this murder.

 

[katydid23]

I really do not know what to think about Josh Young's guilt or innocence. I usually have a gut feeling about other cases. But this one confuses me. I could see both scenarios: Josh is an evil, violent sociopath like his father OR Josh is a confused, innocent victim who tried to cover for his father. Which one is it? :fence:

 

[Irisha]

HLPause is just now playing the tesitbsing of Cassie. I'm way behind. Anyone still on?

 

[Cappuccino]

So, when did Mom have Trey accounted for until 1:00 a.m.? It was until 10, not 1 a.m.

I find it odd that Trey would try pot for the first time on the night of his murder. If it were in his blood, then I would say he was a pot smoker, but it was only in his urine, so he smoked it for the first time right before he was murdered? Somethings not right with that. JMO

She said she sent him to bed at 10 after she caught him sneaking out, and that she was sure he was in the house till a little after 1 am. Although how she's sure I don't know.

Trey may have been offered pot for the first time ever that night - he was 14, that's round about the age you would start being curious and tempted by things like an offer of pot. JY told police that his father gave him weed the whole time. Maybe JG thought he'd be easier to attack if he was stoned - he doesn't seem that brave what with sneaking up behind people and all.

 

[geevee]

I don't like how JY stares down the gallery. I also don't like how he just left up from his chair. I really thought he was going to do something.

Anyone else catch that?

I didn't notice that but I sure noticed when Gouker's name was called as the next witness the lady before (was it Angelique?) scooted her tail down the aisle and out the door as quickly as she could. I don't suppose I blame her, crossing JG could cost you your life, apparently.

 

[Irisha]

I feel so bad for the jury. I can't imagine how they felt while listening to JG's testimony. Glad they got to leave early. I wonder if they expected this when they were sworn in. Now, the inmates will be there tomorrow. I would be a little scared, but that's just me. :moo:

Aren't most inmates testimony self serving? Like worth about:twocents:minus 1 cents?

 

[AngelWings444]

I really do not know what to think about Josh Young's guilt or innocence. I usually have a gut feeling about other cases. But this one confuses me. I could see both scenarios: Josh is an evil, violent sociopath like his father OR Josh is a confused, innocent victim who tried to cover for his father. Which one is it? :fence:

Either way, with your scenario, Josh Young would be guilty. He's not charged with murder. Complicity only.

 

[AngelWings444]

I thought that JG had given both boys pot inside Easter Eggs prior to this murder.

Who knows if Trey smoked it though? Cassie testified, as have others, they have a sick, twisted, sense of humor. Both JG and JY. All I know is he hadn't smoked pot in the previous 30 days if it wasn't in his blood. Kind of odd that he would smoke it and be murdered minutes later. Poor kid, didn't stand a chance. Another one who should have been with his father. The system failed once again. Straight A student too. :banghead:

 

[aa9511]

But Amanda also says Trey himself is accounted for until a little after 1 am, and JG was with her till between 1-1.30 am. It doesn't leave an awful lot of time for Trey to be lured out of the house and murdered, and then evidence bagged up and taken to Cassie's.

From my recollection, Amanda said she last saw Trey around 10 pm...now I'm not 100% on that, but I don't remember it being as late as 1 am. She said they usually started getting ready for bed around 9, so she thought it was weird when she saw him around 10 still awake and dressed. That's when she followed him to the doorway of the staircase.

At the same time, Cassie is saying that she went to bed between 9-10 pm, and that's the last time she saw Little Josh until he was waking her up later.

So that would have given both of them plenty of time to sneak out...I think Little Josh lured him there by saying they would smoke pot there (MOO)...Trey sounds like kind of a loner so he probably thought it was a cool idea.

 

[AngelWings444]

Aren't most inmates testimony self serving? Like worth about:twocents:minus 1 cents?

If we let off every criminal who had disgusting, lying, crazy, drug addicted, low-life etc..people who testified in their trials, there wouldn't be any prisoners. Prisoners and criminals don't seem to surround themselves with upstanding, hardworking, law abiding, friends. :twocents:

 

[Cappuccino]

From my recollection, Amanda said she last saw Trey around 10 pm...now I'm not 100% on that, but I don't remember it being as late as 1 am. She said they usually started getting ready for bed around 9, so she thought it was weird when she saw him around 10 still awake and dressed. That's when she followed him to the doorway of the staircase.

At the same time, Cassie is saying that she went to bed between 9-10 pm, and that's the last time she saw Little Josh until he was waking her up later.

So that would have given both of them plenty of time to sneak out...I think Little Josh lured him there by saying they would smoke pot there (MOO)...Trey sounds like kind of a loner so he probably thought it was a cool idea.

So you think Little Josh killed him all on his own, and daddy only got involved later to help cover up?

 

[geevee]

From my recollection, Amanda said she last saw Trey around 10 pm...now I'm not 100% on that, but I don't remember it being as late as 1 am. She said they usually started getting ready for bed around 9, so she thought it was weird when she saw him around 10 still awake and dressed. That's when she followed him to the doorway of the staircase.

At the same time, Cassie is saying that she went to bed between 9-10 pm, and that's the last time she saw Little Josh until he was waking her up later.

So that would have given both of them plenty of time to sneak out...I think Little Josh lured him there by saying they would smoke pot there (MOO)...Trey sounds like kind of a loner so he probably thought it was a cool idea.

That's my thinking, Trey maybe wanted to try weed for the first time and had to wait until his Mom and JG were asleep before he could sneak out (since she busted him the first time).

Don't know if JG knew what was up beforehand but I do think he's just covering for his boy. He was very evasive when asked about the details of Trey's death, I don't think he knew them.

 

[AngelWings444]

So you think Little Josh killed him all on his own, and daddy only got involved later to help cover up?

It doesn't really matter. Josh Young is not charged with murder. JMO

 

[writer7]

So, when did Mom have Trey accounted for until 1:00 a.m.? It was until 10, not 1 a.m.

I find it odd that Trey would try pot for the first time on the night of his murder. If it were in his blood, then I would say he was a pot smoker, but it was only in his urine, so he smoked it for the first time right before he was murdered? Somethings not right with that. JMO

JY tried to figure that out when the detective told him about the blood results vs the urine results in his long interrogation (on youtube). He says (paraphrased): Oh, he was at his dad's for a while, yeah.

He had said that Trey smoked pot all the time like all of the rest of them, so he didn't believe the blood results. But Trey had been away from the neighborhood with his dad, so it apparently made sense to JY after remembering that that it could have been a while since Trey last smoked it.

 

[Cappuccino]

It doesn't really matter. Josh Young is not charged with murder. JMO

It matters to me. I'm not the District Attorney, I'm just trying to make sense of the evidence.

 

[aa9511]

So you think Little Josh killed him all on his own, and daddy only got involved later to help cover up?

Yes, that's what I think. Gouker's "confession" seems really fake to me. Also I don't think even Gouker would have been that stupid to do it in that way...didn't he think someone would discover the body and then point it to the 2 guys who ran away?? And then the whole cover-up run...none of it sounds thought-out. My gut is telling me the kid did it, not thinking of any of the consequences afterwards. I don't know...maybe he did...I really don't know what to think. I think the kid did it, and then they both panicked and just ran.

The thing with the bat, though...is that I didn't hear the testimony of how do they think either Little Josh or Gouker took the bat to the ditch...wouldn't Trey have wondered what it was for because it would have been too dark to play baseball?? I think it was the bat not the pipe, but didn't hear the ME's testimony. Also would Little Josh have had enough strength to do that to Trey with a bat? He seems like a scrawny kid and Trey seemed to have more weight on him.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Actually, it could be the truth. Cassie says that JY woke her up at 1-1:30 a.m., then she adds later on that JY went later on to get JG. Amanda testifies that JG was in bed until around 1:00 a.m. Correct?

Yes, they both could easily be telling the truth.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes, that's what I think. Gouker's "confession" seems really fake to me. Also I don't think even Gouker would have been that stupid to do it in that way...didn't he think someone would discover the body and then point it to the 2 guys who ran away?? And then the whole cover-up run...none of it sounds thought-out. My gut is telling me the kid did it, not thinking of any of the consequences afterwards. I don't know...maybe he did...I really don't know what to think. I think the kid did it, and then they both panicked and just ran.

The thing with the bat, though...is that I didn't hear the testimony of how do they think either Little Josh or Gouker took the bat to the ditch...wouldn't Trey have wondered what it was for because it would have been too dark to play baseball?? I think it was the bat not the pipe, but didn't hear the ME's testimony. Also would Little Josh have had enough strength to do that to Trey with a bat? He seems like a scrawny kid and Trey seemed to have more weight on him.

Maybe he told Trey he was bringing it in case they saw someone in the woods that looked scary or in case they saw a snake.

A bat swung hard by anyone of his weight and size could incapacitate a larger male if struck in the back of the head. The strike alone would probably knock him out.

IMO

 

[aa9511]

JY tried to figure that out when the detective told him about the blood results vs the urine results in his long interrogation (on youtube). He says (paraphrased): Oh, he was at his dad's for a while, yeah.

He had said that Trey smoked pot all the time like all of the rest of them, so he didn't believe the blood results. But Trey had been away from the neighborhood with his dad, so it apparently made sense to JY after remembering that that it could have been a while since Trey last smoked it.

Are they going to or have they already played some of the interrogation tapes with Josh Young?