Lies Exposed: discuss the cross exam of Arias

[geevee]

Here's a link to HLN's road map that lists the dates and times of phone calls (it doesn't show the Starbucks purchase right before the gas, I notice).

http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/02/11/jodi-arias-trial-tragic-roadtrip

I too find it very curious that there's only a minute between getting the Starbucks (8:41 p.m.) and getting gas (8:42 p.m.), it just makes me think even more that someone was with her, at least until she left California.

 

[Sedonia Sunset]

This post (in the Receipts and bank statements thread) has a really nice chart with dates and times for all the receipts:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Arias Trial; Compare the receipts and the monetary transactions

This post lays it out in an easy to read format:


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Arias Trial; Compare the receipts and the monetary transactions


There's probably also a chart or something on the phone calls (I'll look around) but isn't her phone always on greenwich time - some hours ahead of CA time? That part always confused me, but if she's taking the battery out to keep it from pinging where she doesn't want people to know she is, she likely never resets the time on her phone. lol

I could be wrong, but I think her phone probably displayed the correct time for whichever time zone she was in at any given moment because it would automatically get that from cell towers. I think the phone RECORDS reflected GMT, though. That way, the records are always accurate, no matter WHERE her phone is. The rest is all a matter of math.

 

[Sedonia Sunset]

I'm only just now catching up on this particular thread. I've seen several mentions of JA's obviously false claim that Travis was masturbating to the photo of a little boy and that she was so horrified that she ran out, threw up, cried, blah, blah, blah.

At this point, I think we all know JA well enough to know that not only did that not happen, but that her reaction would NOT have been to be horrified, throw up, etc. She is cunning, calculating and opportunistic. If she had REALLY caught him doing anything like that, I think she would have latched onto that as a way to hold him to her even closer. She would have been oh-so-understanding. She might even have ENCOURAGED it and probably obtained MORE images for him (if not worse). What a swell girlfriend SHE is to accept EVERY aspect of him and support and accommodate him in any way possible! It would be just another kinky sex act that she could "share" with him in one form or another. And it would be excellent threat fodder to keep him close; it would possibly be strong enough to get him to marry her, at least in HER mind, and THAT is an opportunity that she would NOT let pass her by. She's incapable of feeling empathy or compassion, so I think it would only bother her if it directly impacted HER. She knows that society at large gets VERY upset about child *advertiser censored* and all that it entails, so she made up the story and played off of THAT for her own benefit (and to twist the knife even further into the heart of the Alexander family for daring to want her to get the death penalty for slaughtering their beloved brother).

But since it never happened in the first place, that is, of course, all speculation.

 

[MinnesotaMary]

It is at the 1:00:50 mark (almost at the very end of the video)

Jodi Arias Trial - Day 25 - Part 2 - YouTube

Thank you so much for posting that!! If anyone else watches that video, I suggest to start around 58 mins. and just watch to the end. It was really interesting to watch the video now, and see how Jodi changed her lie (to Juan) and then gets caught by Juan and tries to cover her tracks! Jodi is quite a character!!

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I'm only just now catching up on this particular thread. I've seen several mentions of JA's obviously false claim that Travis was masturbating to the photo of a little boy and that she was so horrified that she ran out, threw up, cried, blah, blah, blah.

At this point, I think we all know JA well enough to know that not only did that not happen, but that her reaction would NOT have been to be horrified, throw up, etc. She is cunning, calculating and opportunistic. If she had REALLY caught him doing anything like that, I think she would have latched onto that as a way to hold him to her even closer. She would have been oh-so-understanding. She might even have ENCOURAGED it and probably obtained MORE images for him (if not worse). What a swell girlfriend SHE is to accept EVERY aspect of him and support and accommodate him in any way possible! It would be just another kinky sex act that she could "share" with him in one form or another. And it would be excellent threat fodder to keep him close; it would possibly be strong enough to get him to marry her, at least in HER mind, and THAT is an opportunity that she would NOT let pass her by. She's incapable of feeling empathy or compassion, so I think it would only bother her if it directly impacted HER. She knows that society at large gets VERY upset about child *advertiser censored* and all that it entails, so she made up the story and played off of THAT for her own benefit (and to twist the knife even further into the heart of the Alexander family for daring to want her to get the death penalty for slaughtering their beloved brother).

But since it never happened in the first place, that is, of course, all speculation.

I cannot express how much I agree. That is exactly what she would have done! She used all things to her advantage and didn't seem to have any real core beliefs. Does anyone really think she genuinely would have cared if she caught him doing that?

 

[geevee]

I cannot express how much I agree. That is exactly what she would have done! She used all things to her advantage and didn't seem to have any real core beliefs. Does anyone really think she genuinely would have cared if she caught him doing that?

I think you and Sedonia are on the mark, she would have been gleeful to have had something like that on him, she could have blackmailed him for the rest of his life.

I don't say that because I think she's 'evil' or depraved, she would have seen and used it as any other very reliable tool to get whatever it was she wanted.

In her mind I imagine it would have been a stroke of luck had she found out any sort of behavior like this, but no such thing ever happened or she'd certainly have gotten some kind of evidence of it to hold over his head.

 

[OEJ]

I cannot express how much I agree. That is exactly what she would have done! She used all things to her advantage and didn't seem to have any real core beliefs. Does anyone really think she genuinely would have cared if she caught him doing that?

Yeah, she totally lied about the pedophilia and how upset she was by it. I'm just relieved she didn't hook up with a Paul Bernardo. She would have helped him, too!

 

[MeeBee]

I was actually taken by surprise when TA invoked “THE GREAT BLACK OUT” extending from the moment of the gun discharge to a point in her car located just outside of Kingman NV ie a span of about 5 hours.

I had assumed that JA would have created a story depicting TA as a monster that was frenzied and homicidal. I thought the explanation would be "she was thrashing at him with knife as TA had her in a death grip."
However the “credibility” suffers when JA begins the clean up. How would she explain the corpse stuffed into the shower stall, the floor mop up, the clothes in a washing machine, and the innocuous voice mail message to TA around 11PM.

A memory lapse relieves her of the duty to explain ALL the circumstances of stabbing and clean up but that dodge vitiates her claim of self-defense.
JA does admit to an accidental gun discharge and gives the jury a hint of TA rage and physical combat.

If taken alone that set of facts would have exonerated her.

The jury must understand what was happening and what TA was doing with specificity to merit a knife attack reprisal. Since JA has given up trying to manufacture a “credible” story related to her 27 thrust knife attack the jury will not understand against what JA was defending herself.
Invoking the “GREAT BLACK OUT” excuse weakened the defense and I think was a strategic blunder.

I know this is old but I will respond now. But all excellent points.

It seems this fog mess actually hurt more than help JA. If there is a fog, how could you have been in the presence of mind to clean up and stage the scene? If there's a fog, how do you know when you come to that you've killed someone and need to immediately begin covering your tracks? It seems JA would have benefited more from remembering everything, why she did it, even go with the snapped defense because they would explain better why she was scared and thought to clean up and did such a poor job due to anxiety and fear. It would explain better why she felt she needed to keep up a guise once she left Travis'.

Of course, nothing she says will ever account for the premeditation that happened before the murder. But the fog probably totally killed her version of the story, along with the fact that Travis did not own a gun, the shelves were too flimsy to have held her weight, the closet was pristine when Travis was found with no clothes flipped messed up, and so on.

 

[geevee]

I know this is old but I will respond now. But all excellent points.

It seems this fog mess actually hurt more than help JA. If there is a fog, how could you have been in the presence of mind to clean up and stage the scene? If there's a fog, how do you know when you come to that you've killed someone and need to immediately begin covering your tracks? It seems JA would have benefited more from remembering everything, why she did it, even go with the snapped defense because they would explain better why she was scared and thought to clean up and did such a poor job due to anxiety and fear. It would explain better why she felt she needed to keep up a guise once she left Travis'.

Of course, nothing she says will ever account for the premeditation that happened before the murder. But the fog probably totally killed her version of the story, along with the fact that Travis did not own a gun, the shelves were too flimsy to have held her weight, the closet was pristine when Travis was found with no clothes flipped messed up, and so on.

Good points, also - how could she remember what his screams sounded like ('not like a girls' - Flores interview) when the ninja was hurting him but her fog doesn't allow her to recall any of that when the knife is in her hands. With the great questions the jury asked I was a lttle surprised no one asked about that.

 

[MeeBee]

Good points, also - how could she remember what his screams sounded like ('not like a girls' - Flores interview) when the ninja was hurting him but her fog doesn't allow her to recall any of that when the knife is in her hands. With the great questions the jury asked I was a lttle surprised no one asked about that.

Well, there was one question that showed one of the jurors at least thinking along those lines. I still remember it because it made me clap. It went something like this, paraphrased:

"You said in your interview with the detective that Travis was on all fours and screaming. Do you in fact remember these things?"

So I am sure the jury noticed her convenient loss of memory benefited her when she became the perpetrator and also realized her convenient flashes of memory like disposing of the rope in the garbage. Oh, so that's where the rope went! She's a ridiculous woman...

 

[geevee]

Well, there was one question that showed one of the jurors at least thinking along those lines. I still remember it because it made me clap. It went something like this, paraphrased:

"You said in your interview with the detective that Travis was on all fours and screaming. Do you in fact remember these things?"

So I am sure the jury noticed her convenient loss of memory benefited her when she became the perpetrator and also realized her convenient flashes of memory like disposing of the rope in the garbage. Oh, so that's where the rope went! She's a ridiculous woman...

I am still mystified by the fibers and her insisting there was a rope. I know the DT needs a logical reason to have something to cut so a knife can be up there, and something that sheds fibers to explain those on the floor trapped in blood.

I don't believe for a second the cutting of trim rope and tying up story but there are fibers scattered around. Yet no fibers in the gunshot wound so it wasn't from a pillow used for noise reduction. And he didn't have curtains that had tassled tie-backs, so where did those fibers come from? If she had something to tie around his wrists or feet (to either immobilize him or drag him afterwards) we ought to see evidence in the autopsy report, but there was none reported.

I really need those fibers explained.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

Does anyone here know if Mormons wear regular clothes under the white robes they wear at baptism? In one version CMj says that after baptism while still dressed in the white robes, Travis bent her over the desk and forced anal sex on her. In another account she states that in that alleged forced anal sex, that Travis bent her over his desk and unzipped his trousers. Would he be wearing trousers under the robe?

 

[MeeBee]

I am still mystified by the fibers and her insisting there was a rope. I know the DT needs a logical reason to have something to cut so a knife can be up there, and something that sheds fibers to explain those on the floor trapped in blood.

I don't believe for a second the cutting of trim rope and tying up story but there are fibers scattered around. Yet no fibers in the gunshot wound so it wasn't from a pillow used for noise reduction. And he didn't have curtains that had tassled tie-backs, so where did those fibers come from? If she had something to tie around his wrists or feet (to either immobilize him or drag him afterwards) we ought to see evidence in the autopsy report, but there was none reported.

I really need those fibers explained.

I don't. They're just fibers. People with tassle-y accents (Travis had tassled pillows and fuzzy slippers, both of which look like they could be the fiber culprit) probably have a lot of them all over their house. Maybe Napolean got a hold of something one day and Travis didn't get all the fibers up. Jodi just saw the pictures in evidence and molded a story around them to explain the knife being in close proximity.

 

[geevee]

I don't. They're just fibers. People with tassle-y accents (Travis had tassled pillows and fuzzy slippers, both of which look like they could be the fiber culprit) probably have a lot of them all over their house. Maybe Napolean got a hold of something one day and Travis didn't get all the fibers up. Jodi just saw the pictures in evidence and molded a story around them to explain the knife being in close proximity.

I don't know, I just think there's more to them than incidental, we may never know for sure though.

Speaking of his bath slippers, why do you think they were in the middle of the bedroom floor instead of near the shower where he'd need them?

 

[Ammonitida]

I don't know, I just think there's more to them than incidental, we may never know for sure though.

Speaking of his bath slippers, why do you think they were in the middle of the bedroom floor instead of near the shower where he'd need them?

They're just incidental, like that piece of duct tape photographed in the laundry area. Only one of those fibers fit her description of the "rope" -- the shiny, beige-colored tassel photographed in the hallway. The cotton-white, rope-like material found on the stairs does not match, coming from a different source. Ditto for the other fiber found in the hallway. Much smaller and more consistent with a carpet fiber.


Moreover, Jodi had already known about this fiber way before she ever told her rope story. Flores discussed these fibers with her in detail in early June of 2008, and when pressed about them, Jodi herself said that they could have came from his pillow. Years later, she remembers that Flores thought these fibers were significant, and so she gets the bright idea to construct a story around them to explain how the knife got in the bedroom. It's how she operates. She admitted to this on the stand when she told the jury that during her interview with Flores on July 16th, she was creating a fake story around the forensic evidence. What she didn't say was that she was doing it again at her trial.

 

[Ammonitida]

I don't. They're just fibers. People with tassle-y accents (Travis had tassled pillows and fuzzy slippers, both of which look like they could be the fiber culprit) probably have a lot of them all over their house. Maybe Napolean got a hold of something one day and Travis didn't get all the fibers up. Jodi just saw the pictures in evidence and molded a story around them to explain the knife being in close proximity.

The tassel may not have even come from anything in his bedroom. Me and my pets have tracked fibers/trash/pet toys upstairs that originated from downstairs.

 

[geevee]

The tassel may not have even come from anything in his bedroom. Me and my pets have tracked fibers/trash/pet toys upstairs that originated from downstairs.

Nice to see you, Amm. In my view, Travis' home looked like he took particular care with housekeeping, there were quite a bit of fibers upstairs as well as the looped piece on the stairs, I don't think any of it was lying about before she got there so they must have been spread by her.

Blink has some good info, esp. about the camera memory card(s).

Just moo

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

Does anyone here know if Mormons wear regular clothes under the white robes they wear at baptism? In one version CMj says that after baptism while still dressed in the white robes, Travis bent her over the desk and forced anal sex on her. In another account she states that in that alleged forced anal sex, that Travis bent her over his desk and unzipped his trousers. Would he be wearing trousers under the robe?

I know you are not serious here...Take care of those Schnauzers...

 

[Ammonitida]

Nice to see you, Amm. In my view, Travis' home looked like he took particular care with housekeeping, there were quite a bit of fibers upstairs as well as the looped piece on the stairs, I don't think any of it was lying about before she got there so they must have been spread by her.

Blink has some good info, esp. about the camera memory card(s).

Just moo

There were only three that investigators focused on, though some people think there were more because multiple photographs from different angles were taken of each. Only two were notable.

1. A small, white fiber consistent with carpeting, photographed in the hallway. Not notable.

2. A cotton-white, rope-like material photographed on the stairway.

3. A shiny, tan-beige tassel-like fiber also photographed in the hallway.

What's funny is that Jodi claimed the last two came from the same source when they clearly didn't.

I see nothing significant about them. You can be a good housekeeper and still miss a few things, and in this case only two things were missed (I ignore the tiny carpet-like fibers). I personally believe the dog had something to do with the tassel. My dogs like to chew and rip things apart. They track a lot of crap around the house too. Same with my cats.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

I know you are not serious here...Take care of those Schnauzers...

Actually I was serious, I have no idea what the dress code is for morman baptisms, and was asking a legitimate question.