Lies point us to the truth #3

[proust20]

BDI does comport with much of available evidence. However, this theory seems rather weak when it comes to motive. Trivial, childish squabbling leads to monstrous sibling murder on Christmas. Still, that does not pertain to SA, which cannot be excluded from the crime, and which provides the best motive.

If it's BDI, the head blow came first? Burke knew about the size 12s? and put his long johns over them? The thread of brutality is so consistent that it is difficult to consider that the abuser, basher and strangler are not identical.

 

[DeDee]

But on the other hand she had warts.

Who are you referring to here?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Who are you referring to here?

DeDee,
“On the other hand she had warts” is a saying not a reference.

 

[MicroGuy]

BDI does comport with much of available evidence. However, this theory seems rather weak when it comes to motive. Trivial, childish squabbling leads to monstrous sibling murder on Christmas. Still, that does not pertain to SA, which cannot be excluded from the crime, and which provides the best motive.

If it's BDI, the head blow came first? Burke knew about the size 12s? and put his long johns over them? The thread of brutality is so consistent that it is difficult to consider that the abuser, basher and strangler are not identical.

I think the intruder was in the house and waited for JB to go to bed. He left the prewritten RN forged to look like PR, went to her bed and used the duck tape to silence her.

Then brought her to the basement to abuse/torture, not kill. He might have been trying to get her into the basement crawl space, and dropped her, causing the head injury.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

I think the intruder was in the house and waited for JB to go to bed. He left the prewritten RN forged to look like PR, went to her bed and used the duck tape to silence her.

MircroGuy,
How do you suppose he/she went about forging the rn to “look like” PR Handwriting?

Then brought her to the basement to abuse/torture, not kill. He might have been trying to get her into the basement crawl space, and dropped her, causing the head injury.

How did he/she know what direction to take to find the door to the basement?

The crawl space is above where BR (train track) table, sat. I would think the corner of the table would have been broken off; actually the edge. I don’t recall seeing that. Why not just take JB and get the ransom?

The real question is how did they find the wine cellar and dump some crime scene evidence inside it?

There was a murder but no kidnapping.

 

[cujenn81]

The likelihood that our killer wrote the forged ransom note specifically in PR’s handwriting, while also claiming to be a member of a small foreign faction, has to be less than .001%. In my opinion, of course.

 

[MicroGuy]

MircroGuy,
How do you suppose he/she went about forging the rn to “look like” PR Handwriting?


How did he/she know what direction to take to find the door to the basement?

The crawl space is above where BR (train track) table, sat. I would think the corner of the table would have been broken off; actually the edge. I don’t recall seeing that. Why not just take JB and get the ransom?

The real question is how did they find the wine cellar and dump some crime scene evidence inside it?

There was a murder but no kidnapping.

I think the killer had been in the house before many times. He knew the layout as well as any family member.

This is how he knew about the $118K bonus. He found checkstubs in the drawers of the house.

In terms of "why not leave the house". It might have been a 'bigger thrill' for him to perfom his acts within the home.

 

[MicroGuy]

The likelihood that our killer wrote the forged ransom note specifically in PR’s handwriting, while also claiming to be a member of a small foreign faction, has to be less than .001%. In my opinion, of course.

Based on the educational level and intelligent levels of both John and Patsy, I think the chances that she would pen a RN in her own handwriting, thereby incriminating herself, are remote.

 

[cujenn81]

Based on the educational level and intelligent levels of both John and Patsy, I think the chances that she would pen a RN in her own handwriting, thereby incriminating herself, are remote.

People don’t always make intelligent decisions in high-stress situations. Furthermore, the RN wasn’t obviously written in PR’s handwriting. Handwriting experts have disagreed about whether she could be the author. But if she did write it, she was clearly smart enough to write it in such a way that LE couldn’t prove that she did.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

I think the killer had been in the house before many times. He knew the layout as well as any family member.

This is how he knew about the $118K bonus. He found checkstubs in the drawers of the house.

In terms of "why not leave the house". It might have been a 'bigger thrill' for him to perfom his acts within the home

I wonder how he knew which drawers to look in order to find check receipts, back to the first quarter of 1996?
This familiar is a little bit too familiar (not to be) a family member. I mean how many none family members have been in your own home and know the drawer you keep your personal, private papers in?

May I ask how well you have studied the layout of 755 15th St. in Boulder?There are so many twist and turns in this house, it is truly amazing. There are posts under Media Links Only #275 and #309; if you care to take a walk you thru this house. But still where exactly is the door to the wine cellar. I know exactly how to get to it. JAR himself said straight away that the killer had to know the layout of the house. He was attending University of Colorado Boulder during this time. But hey, he is a family member that lived there.

I meant to add that it is Christmas time and we all think about JB during this time, here. I am grateful for this forum because it has forced me to learn so much about this case. Thank you Tricia!

Last but not least … the thrill?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Based on the educational level and intelligent levels of both John and Patsy, I think the chances that she would pen a RN in her own handwriting, thereby incriminating herself, are remote.

She was ambidextrous. Also she changed some of her writing styles after the death of little JB. PR wrote that note. She even put her pen and pad back in its proper place. Never thinking these items would be a red flag. At the point of composing the letter; I am sure she was very distraught? The question is at whose directive did she write the rn. Was it her own or somebody else’s?

 

[Linda7NJ]

BDI does comport with much of available evidence. However, this theory seems rather weak when it comes to motive. Trivial, childish squabbling leads to monstrous sibling murder on Christmas. Still, that does not pertain to SA, which cannot be excluded from the crime, and which provides the best motive.

If it's BDI, the head blow came first? Burke knew about the size 12s? and put his long johns over them? The thread of brutality is so consistent that it is difficult to consider that the abuser, basher and strangler are not identical.

Don’t rule out Burke for the SA - that would be a huge mistake. It would explain a lot.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I think the intruder was in the house and waited for JB to go to bed. He left the prewritten RN forged to look like PR, went to her bed and used the duck tape to silence her.

Then brought her to the basement to abuse/torture, not kill. He might have been trying to get her into the basement crawl space, and dropped her, causing the head injury.

Why?

 

[CloudedTruth]

UKGuy,
What caught my attention was the date. It is exactly 2 weeks before JB death. It occurred on the Jan. 8, hence $118,000. IMO, there are no such things as coincidence. Everything happens for a reason.


I read LHP’s statement and conclusion after the GJ. It wasn’t near as telling to me as Linda Wilcox’s statement on a candy rose.

Peter Boyles Radio Show - July 21, 1998
Linda Wilcox Interview
PETER BOYLES: Things that you haven't said so far, stories you haven't told, tell me about them.

LINDA WILCOX: One thing I thought was really odd, when I first worked there. Their oldest daughter, Beth, had died before I started working there. I've had a lot of death in my family, lots of family members have died, most of them prematurely. So, in the back of my photo albums, I tend to have like a collage of whoever it was, like my father, for example.

Well, he had this frame with the different holes for the different sized pictures, like a collage frame. He had this collage frame with pictures of Beth in them. From when she was a little kid, when she was a cheerleader, like that, which in and of itself is not odd at all especially with someone who has died. Except that he kept it in his bathroom. It wasn't even hung up at first. It stayed between, (some talking here that I can't understand - except she says, no let me go on, this is significant). He had one of those big sunken tubs and a separate shower and it sat between the tub and the wall. And then when the house flooded, which I'll tell you about later, it was right before the tour, like a week before the tour, the house flooded over Thanksgiving break which was a problem with a window and a faucet - it ran the whole time and flooded the house. Fortunately, it skipped that picture. But, at that time, it went on the wall, a few feet up and over behind the door but it stayed in his bathroom. It just, that always struck me as being kind of weird. Who keeps a picture of their dead kid in the bathroom?


This is what Burke told Detective Dan Schuler, in his 1998 interview:
Burke on Pageants/Dance Lessons
DS: What about, you know, when you'd get stuck having to go to JonBenet's things? Those weren't the most fun things. Those were pretty boring, huh?
BR: Yeah.
DS: Did you ever have to go to, when she had dance lessons and things like that?
BR: Yeah, I had to go to ballet and stuff.
DS: Did you? How did you like that?
BR: It didn't last that long but I was thankful. It was boring, the short time it lasted. It was really bad, the short time it lasted.
DS: What else did you have to go to that was really boring? You know, with JonBenet, when she had to do it.
BR: That's about it.


It could have gone down like this: JR SA JB. PR catches them. PR decides to hit JR upside the head with her Softball bat. JR ducks and PR hits JB Instead. BR was a witness to said act. PR then takes directives from JR. She was used to this as it was technically her role in the relationship. They were more business partners then husband and wife.

I think this may be close to what might have happened. I definitely believe that JR was abusing JB. I think someone else may have been there that night, at the invitation of JR. I still have my doubts as to the involvement of BR. But he could've been awakened at some point, as was PR. We do know that JBR struggled with her attacker(s). And we also know that a neighbor heard a scream. I think it's possible that JBR screamed as she was being molested, of which it is also possible that the strangulation was part of that scenario......EA or "the choking game". The hit on the head may have been to stop her from screaming, but whoever wielded that blow was panicked, and hit her hard. I do think her death was accidental and not intentional. The scream may have awakened PR and BR. Upon discovering what had happened, the cover up then begins. Someone posted here noting the negative and somewhat angry comments towards JR in the ransom note. As I believe that Patsy wrote it, I think her anger at JR about the abuse and the harm that ended JBR's life came through in those comments.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

I think this may be close to what might have happened. I definitely believe that JR was abusing JB. I think someone else may have been there that night, at the invitation of JR. I still have my doubts as to the involvement of BR. But he could've been awakened at some point, as was PR. We do know that JBR struggled with her attacker(s). And we also know that a neighbor heard a scream. I think it's possible that JBR screamed as she was being molested, of which it is also possible that the strangulation was part of that scenario......EA or "the choking game". The hit on the head may have been to stop her from screaming, but whoever wielded that blow was panicked, and hit her hard. I do think her death was accidental and not intentional. The scream may have awakened PR and BR. Upon discovering what had happened, the cover up then begins. Someone posted here noting the negative and somewhat angry comments towards JR in the ransom note. As I believe that Patsy wrote it, I think her anger at JR about the abuse and the harm that ended JBR's life came through in those comments.

CloudedTruth,
There are so many scenarios that could have happened to JBR. Let’s look at JR being the abuser: the 911 call on the 23rd … JR was stationed at the wet bar making drinks and welcoming guests. I do not believe the 911 call was made because of his actions. In so saying, I do believe it involved JB being SA. This lead to her untimely death. JAR was there (although you won’t find mention of it). He was also seen by Joe Barnhill Christmas Day entering the home through the front door. Sure, he later retracted his statement as did the lady across the street that heard the scream. This last sentence so fits in with the Boulderite attitude and especially after the visits from team R’s. I’m not saying JAR did it but it is a possibility.

This is never discussed but important: JB was bludgeoned, strangled, there were bruises, scrapes on her legs and back, there were abrasions on her face and back (possibly made from BR train tracks) and she was SA! This shouts out anger to me by someone very close to JB (as in personal).

JB either screamed because of the SA or because somebody was coming towards her with a weapon. It could have been both. I guess that would give us the motive. So what occurred was SA, then head bash, followed by strangulation. Since there is no such thing as coincidence then we might ask ourselves exactly what was going on when it came to the semen stained duvet, adult Dr. Seuss book and misplaced pillow on the bar?

I think it is worth noting that the R’s bought their home in 1991. Before the house was remodeled JB slept in what is referred to MR bedroom which is next door to BR bedroom. JB moved to the new addition (according to the R’s) because the new addition bedroom (which was originally designed for Beth and Melinda) had a plug for a vcr and tv in the closet. So, they moved JB from the front of the house with the rest of the family to the back of the house next door to JAR.

JB was born August 6, 1990. She started pageant's when she was 3 years old. PR started chemo in 1993. This would make JB 3. Nedra stayed in JB guest bed and PR stayed in JAR’s room during treatment and recovery. Maybe this is why they moved JB. If so, then why not say so? **It is my understanding that JR was never by PR bedside during treatment. Nedra stated that all children were “a little abused”? Perhaps PR simply followed w/JB pageants as she knew no different. Or was it at NP directive?

Since PR wrote the note and made angry directives towards JR this could have stemmed from her own abusive upbringing and at his directive. I don’t believe he ever read the rn. Besides it is known that PR and JR weren’t on the same page in their relationship. Look at their actions on the morning of the 26th. Actions speak louder than words!

BR knowledge of the strangulation (before the autopsy report was released); as overheard by SS? BR told the psychiatrist he knew what happened. He was a bit too close in his recollection of the actual crime not to be privy to it.

So, my guess is everyone had a hand in it. No pun but that was MR hand print found on the wine cellar door. She didn’t live there. Why was her hand print on that door in the basement?

 

[CloudedTruth]

CloudedTruth,
There are so many scenarios that could have happened to JBR. Let’s look at JR being the abuser: the 911 call on the 23rd … JR was stationed at the wet bar making drinks and welcoming guests. I do not believe the 911 call was made because of his actions. In so saying, I do believe it involved JB being SA. This lead to her untimely death. JAR was there (although you won’t find mention of it). He was also seen by Joe Barnhill Christmas Day entering the home through the front door. Sure, he later retracted his statement as did the lady across the street that heard the scream. This last sentence so fits in with the Boulderite attitude and especially after the visits from team R’s. I’m not saying JAR did it but it is a possibility.

This is never discussed but important: JB was bludgeoned, strangled, there were bruises, scrapes on her legs and back, there were abrasions on her face and back (possibly made from BR train tracks) and she was SA! This shouts out anger to me by someone very close to JB (as in personal).

JB either screamed because of the SA or because somebody was coming towards her with a weapon. It could have been both. I guess that would give us the motive. So what occurred was SA, then head bash, followed by strangulation. Since there is no such thing as coincidence then we might ask ourselves exactly what was going on when it came to the semen stained duvet, adult Dr. Seuss book and misplaced pillow on the bar?

I think it is worth noting that the R’s bought their home in 1991. Before the house was remodeled JB slept in what is referred to MR bedroom which is next door to BR bedroom. JB moved to the new addition (according to the R’s) because the new addition bedroom (which was originally designed for Beth and Melinda) had a plug for a vcr and tv in the closet. So, they moved JB from the front of the house with the rest of the family to the back of the house next door to JAR.

JB was born August 6, 1990. She started pageant's when she was 3 years old. PR started chemo in 1993. This would make JB 3. Nedra stayed in JB guest bed and PR stayed in JAR’s room during treatment and recovery. Maybe this is why they moved JB. If so, then why not say so? **It is my understanding that JR was never by PR bedside during treatment. Nedra stated that all children were “a little abused”? Perhaps PR simply followed w/JB pageants as she knew no different. Or was it at NP directive?

Since PR wrote the note and made angry directives towards JR this could have stemmed from her own abusive upbringing and at his directive. I don’t believe he ever read the rn. Besides it is known that PR and JR weren’t on the same page in their relationship. Look at their actions on the morning of the 26th. Actions speak louder than words!

BR knowledge of the strangulation (before the autopsy report was released); as overheard by SS? BR told the psychiatrist he knew what happened. He was a bit too close in his recollection of the actual crime not to be privy to it.

So, my guess is everyone had a hand in it. No pun but that was MR hand print found on the wine cellar door. She didn’t live there. Why was her hand print on that door in the basement?

Agree, re: many scenarios. As the story goes, it was Fleet White who accidentally made the 911 call. He has admitted this, and was apparently trying to either get test results or medicine for his hospitalized mother in Aspen. Believable I suppose if he needed to dial 411 to get a number he did not have. He reportedly was using the phone in the family room, and there were other guests there who were eating the buffet style dinner. It was noted that he was getting agitated as he kept getting transferred around and was not getting the answers he needed. This makes sense, in light of the time of day (almost 7PM) and two days before Christmas.


According to JAR, his last day in Colorado was 12/19, at which time he went back to Georgia to spend time with his mother and sister. He and MR were then as is well known, going to join JR and family in Michigan to celebrate Christmas with them in Charlevoix. I do know that LE was able to confirm that JAR was not on any commercial or private jet on 12/25. His alibi as well as MR's were confirmed 100%. There is no evidence that JAR was at the party on the 23rd, and I think that was only speculation. Mr. Barnhill was elderly at the time and it's very possible that his sighting of JAR occurred at an earlier date. It seems unlikely that JAR who was claiming to be in Georgia at the time would be so bold and obvious to walk up to the front door of the house. Seems to me he'd be sneaking around so as not to be seen.

I do think that the suitcase placement was part of the cover up attempting to bolster the intruder theory, since they were claiming that this person entered and exited through the broken basement window, which had a high placement. The intruder needed something to stand on to get back out of the window. As it was JAR's suitcase, they probably did not know the contents or even if there were any contents and surely most likely didn't think to check. They were in panic mode trying to stage the scene. Much has been made of the "semen stained duvet", but for a young man of JAR's age I don't find it particularly damning or suspicious. I think it's likely upon realizing there was semen on the duvet from whenever he stayed there last, he was embarrassed and shoved it in the suitcase for future washing. Melinda Ramsey did not live there, but she did have a bedroom for use when she visited, which she did visit. So not particularly suspicious that evidence of her being there would be found.

I am aware that the relationship between Patsy and John had become for the most part, transactional. He did not seem to be particularly supportive during her cancer battle, but he was at the time very busy in building his business. John has never struck me as being the warm and fuzzy type. He was always in control and comes off as rather cold. It would have been interesting to see had this not occurred if they would have stayed together. I think they did because they each had damaging information about the other, and I think that pre-dated what happened to JonBenet.

BR for me is kind of a wild card, always has been. His behavior at the time was certainly weird. Surely at the age of 9 years old, the poor kid had already experienced a lot of trauma. His mother's cancer and brutal medical treatment which had her for a period of time isolated from the rest of the family because of her weakened immune system, and the sudden death of his older half sister in the car accident, which had a profound impact on his dad. When you look at pictures of that house, it looks so perfect on the outside. The inside reveals stark differences. With the exception of when it was shown for the Christmas tour and when they were entertaining , it's messy and chaotic. As more details about the Ramsey's came to light, I think it's safe to say this was a very dysfunctional family. Chronic bedwetting from both kids as well as the scatology from Burke. There are questions about Burke that have not been adequately answered for me, but I'm not convinced he was the killer. Do I think he knows more about what when on that he has revealed? Yes. He admitted to Dr. Phil that he did go downstairs that night after he thought everyone was asleep, to continue putting that toy together and playing with it. He has made a few admissions, some I believe to the grand jury, that his parents were unaware of. Like him being awake that morning when they claimed he was asleep. There was a lot going on that night and into the wee hours of the morning before the 911 call was made. It's a little hard to believe that he didn't hear anything, and there was that scream too.....

 

[DeDee]

< RSBMFF >

Since PR wrote the note and made angry directives towards JR this could have stemmed from her own abusive upbringing and at his directive.

Could you please supply a link for this claim? tia

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Could you please supply a link for this claim? tia

DeDee,
There is no link. It is a logical conclusion.

 

[DeDee]

DeDee,
There is no link. It is a logical conclusion.

It is a conclusion some have made, to be sure. It is not a fact though. I think it's highly possible, and just as likely, that John wrote the ransom note by trying to impersonate Patsy's handwriting style.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

That's from ACR, purported to be from the 12/23/96 Ramsey party. Sorry about the quality. Maybe some of our wiz kids can amplify it for us.

Photo of the Christmas party on the 23rd. Whom do you suppose that the tall young man with the long hair is on the left, back row?

According to JAR, his last day in Colorado was 12/19, at which time he went back to Georgia to spend time with his mother and sister. He and MR were then as is well known, going to join JR and family in Michigan to celebrate Christmas with them in Charlevoix. I do know that LE was able to confirm that JAR was not on any commercial or private jet on 12/25. His alibi as well as MR's were confirmed 100%. There is no evidence that JAR was at the party on the 23rd, and I think that was only speculation. Mr. Barnhill was elderly at the time and it's very possible that his sighting of JAR occurred at an earlier date. It seems unlikely that JAR who was claiming to be in Georgia at the time would be so bold and obvious to walk up to the front door of the house. Seems to me he'd be sneaking around so as not to be seen.

CloudedTruth,
You realize that just because a Ramsey states something does not make it fact!
Joe Barnhill had a clear shot of the Ramsey’s front door from his house. If he did see a young man with longer hair walk into the house on Christmas Day whom do you suppose that would be?

Agree, re: many scenarios. As the story goes, it was Fleet White who accidentally made the 911 call. He has admitted this, and was apparently trying to either get test results or medicine for his hospitalized mother in Aspen. Believable I suppose if he needed to dial 411 to get a number he did not have. He reportedly was using the phone in the family room, and there were other guests there who were eating the buffet style dinner. It was noted that he was getting agitated as he kept getting transferred around and was not getting the answers he needed. This makes sense, in light of the time of day (almost 7PM) and two days before Christmas.

This is not factual. His mother wasn’t in the hospital during Christmas of 96.

I do think that the suitcase placement was part of the cover up attempting to bolster the intruder theory, since they were claiming that this person entered and exited through the broken basement window, which had a high placement. The intruder needed something to stand on to get back out of the window. As it was JAR's suitcase, they probably did not know the contents or even if there were any contents and surely most likely didn't think to check. They were in panic mode trying to stage the scene. Much has been made of the "semen stained duvet", but for a young man of JAR's age I don't find it particularly damning or suspicious. I think it's likely upon realizing there was semen on the duvet from whenever he stayed there last, he was embarrassed and shoved it in the suitcase for future washing.

JR took the suitcase down to the basement before the party on the 23rd (According to him). Nobody went in or out of the basement window. The spider web and lack of leaves or dirt in the wine cellar proves this. The contents of the suitcase seem suspicious considering JB SA on the 25th.

Melinda Ramsey did not live there, but she did have a bedroom for use when she visited, which she did visit. So not particularly suspicious that evidence of her being there would be found.

Considering that MR was attending college and obtained her degree in 1996, I highly doubt she would have need to be in that part of the basement ever. But then, there are her prints found on the door. Since the Housekeeper and family took out the trees from the wine cellar during Thanksgiving you would think their prints would be found on the door as well as other R’s family members. No mention of that!

I am aware that the relationship between Patsy and John had become for the most part, transactional. He did not seem to be particularly supportive during her cancer battle, but he was at the time very busy in building his business. John has never struck me as being the warm and fuzzy type. He was always in control and comes off as rather cold. It would have been interesting to see had this not occurred if they would have stayed together. I think they did because they each had damaging information about the other, and I think that pre-dated what happened to JonBenet.

PR helped him start and build that business. You are correct he isn’t the warm, fuzzy type (callous at best). I would agree with you that they both had damning information about each other … considering the true bills.

BR for me is kind of a wild card, always has been. His behavior at the time was certainly weird. Surely at the age of 9 years old, the poor kid had already experienced a lot of trauma. His mother's cancer and brutal medical treatment which had her for a period of time isolated from the rest of the family because of her weakened immune system, and the sudden death of his older half sister in the car accident, which had a profound impact on his dad.

i definitely believe BR is on the spectrum side. He was skipping through the headstones at JB funeral and smiling at the church service. I can’t help but feel that now he thought all the attention can now be his.

When you look at pictures of that house, it looks so perfect on the outside. The inside reveals stark differences. With the exception of when it was shown for the Christmas tour and when they were entertaining , it's messy and chaotic. As more details about the Ramsey's came to light, I think it's safe to say this was a very dysfunctional family. Chronic bedwetting from both kids as well as the scatology from Burke.

No truer words have been spoken!

There are questions about Burke that have not been adequately answered for me, but I'm not convinced he was the killer. Do I think he knows more about what when on that he has revealed? Yes. He admitted to Dr. Phil that he did go downstairs that night after he thought everyone was asleep, to continue putting that toy together and playing with it. He has made a few admissions, some I believe to the grand jury, that his parents were unaware of. Like him being awake that morning when they claimed he was asleep. There was a lot going on that night and into the wee hours of the morning before the 911 call was made. It's a little hard to believe that he didn't hear anything, and there was that scream too.....

BR may not have been the dealer of the deathly head blow. Yet, there are the train track abrasions on her back. Also, how did he know about the blow to the head and the strangulation? Again, it makes sense that they all played a part in JB demise.