Lisa and the river

[Melon]

Why does everyone here theorize that Lisa was deceased before leaving the house? What if she was injured from a fall that caused severe swelling but no bleeding, and in an attempt to cover up her negligence (intoxicated when an accident could took place) Lisa was removed from the home and passed before being disposed? The dog hit would make more sense next to moms bed if she was wearing clothing when Lisa was disposed of and that's where she undressed to pass out when she got home. JMO

If that was the case, wouldn't DB have had to be in contact with a deceased LI for some length of time? Doesn't it take about 20 minutes post mortem for the compounds the dogs detect to form and and begin to "leak" for lack of a better word? That would put her gone from her home for at least 20 minutes, I would think.

Also, if that is your theory, what are your thoughts on why those 7 items were taken the day of the SW execution? I ask most respectfully, just trying to think along the lines of the theory you suggested. I hadn't really entertained that possiblilty.

 

[Melon]

May I ask why many are focused on the river? I recall it being mentioned by the Criminal Defense Attorneys. It is my opinion that they mentioned it to mislead. IIRC, it was brought up by them to explain the pings and divert the public from thinking the pings were most likely coming from inside or close to the house.

The attorneys stretched the pings "All the way to the river". Is that why people think Lisa is in the river? I don't see this happening at night...but then again, I am not familiar with that part of the country.

I see a man more likely to have done the disposal. If so, then perhaps the river may be considered but I don't see DB going there alone at night. It would be very easy to dispose in a dumpster if she acted alone.

The proximity and conditions of the river make it a good place to dump something you want to get rid of in a hurry. With the size of LI, I would think river scavengers could dispose of a fair amount of her body if she was not in some sort of difficult packaging. There are probably turtles and catfish bigger than she was in there looking for an easy meal. *yes, it's horrible to say, I don't feel good at all saying that, at all*

Until we hear that that dumpster fire had nothing to do with LI's disappearance and/or we hear that every shred of trash from every one of those 18+ dumpsters in the close proximity of the Irwin home were thouroughly searched and nothing was found, I will worry LI is in the landfill never to be found.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Does anyone really think that a drunken DB would be able to navigate the river bank? It's dark and funky in that area; not easy to walk in the day time, forget about trying at night.

 

[redheadedgal]

I still go back to that night where someone called in to KCPD and reported someone throwing something off of a bridge...

and when jim spellman called to ask about the call, i doubt anyone at the business would openly admit to being the 911 caller and give up their anonymity... it would make them a target if they truly saw something someone else didn't want them to see...

 

[indepmo]

If that was the case, wouldn't DB have had to be in contact with a deceased LI for some length of time? Doesn't it take about 20 minutes post mortem for the compounds the dogs detect to form and and begin to "leak" for lack of a better word? That would put her gone from her home for at least 20 minutes, I would think.

Also, if that is your theory, what are your thoughts on why those 7 items were taken the day of the SW execution? I ask most respectfully, just trying to think along the lines of the theory you suggested. I hadn't really entertained that possiblilty.

The verified dog folks on here said a couple of minutes.
Comforter - Lisa could have been wrapped in it.
Purple shorts - Lisa didn't necessarily have to be clothed when removed
Disney Character Shirt (Cars) -
Glow Worm Toy - Toy that was in her crib
Car themes blanket - Could have been used to wrap Lisa up
Tape + Dispenser - Could have been used for "packaging"

Does anyone really think that a drunken DB would be able to navigate the river bank? It's dark and funky in that area; not easy to walk in the day time, forget about trying at night.

Don't forget, Deborah had easy access to a white Lincoln and also could have gotten a ride.

and when jim spellman called to ask about the call, i doubt anyone at the business would openly admit to being the 911 caller and give up their anonymity... it would make them a target if they truly saw something someone else didn't want them to see...

Re: something being thrown off a bridge:

I actually have the recording of that incident. It was a bridge on I-70 at Jackson. Underneath the bridge is a road. The bridge is probably 12'-16' above the road. I have the recording and I can publish it to youtube if anyone wants to hear it.

 

[hambirg]

Indepmo- Do you know what time that call was. My memory is getting foggy on a lot of these details. I'm specifically wondering if it was before or after the last phone activity.

I think the river would be close and convenient. . .but somehow my gut is thinking BL is buried. Idk why. I wonder about the activity behind the shed/garage during the search. Also, DB's weird cryptic comment about not wanting to look in the backyard. It makes me at least think that BL could have been back there at some point. . .or maybe tools. . .like a shovel leaning against the garage. . ? Just thinking out loud.

 

[KsStormy]

Indepmo- Do you know what time that call was. My memory is getting foggy on a lot of these details. I'm specifically wondering if it was before or after the last phone activity.

I think the river would be close and convenient. . .but somehow my gut is thinking BL is buried. Idk why. I wonder about the activity behind the shed/garage during the search. Also, DB's weird cryptic comment about not wanting to look in the backyard. It makes me at least think that BL could have been back there at some point. . .or maybe tools. . .like a shovel leaning against the garage. . ? Just thinking out loud.

I wonder if she was buried sometimes too, after how agitated they got when local volunteer searchers were searching the woods & creeks,river,etc around the home... but then I wonder about time, if there was enough for the parents to have done it or if they would have to had help,etc. That river is SO notorious for a body dump, EVERYONE in & around KC have heard the stories. And it's just like literally RIGHT THERE.... SO close........................

 

[KsStormy]

Is this it? -- post 889 --?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150559&page=36

 

[indepmo]

Transcribing the call dispatched October 4, 2011 at 01:41am.

346 & 336
Reported suspicious party, I-70 & Jackson eastbound
Contact xxxxxx, he is calling from the business at xxxx xxxxxxx at 01:41

As you can see in this image from google maps, there really isn't any point in throwing anything off of this bridge. I've went through all of the recordings from 10pm October 3, 2011 - 6am October 4, 2011 and this is the only call in regards to a bridge and someone throwing something off it.
This isn't the classiest part of town and chances are there was a teenager or throwing something at cars below.

 

[Melon]

The verified dog folks on here said a couple of minutes.
Comforter - Lisa could have been wrapped in it.
Purple shorts - Lisa didn't necessarily have to be clothed when removed
Disney Character Shirt (Cars) -
Glow Worm Toy - Toy that was in her crib
Car themes blanket - Could have been used to wrap Lisa up
Tape + Dispenser - Could have been used for "packaging"





<respectful snip>

So do you think they didn't have access to these items prior to the search warrant when they removed other items with parental consent? I am of the notion that those 7 items were removed the day the warrant was executed for a pretty specific reason (dog hit) and not just that they happened upon them while conducting the search. Again, asking most respectfully. It's interesting to read what people think.

 

[iamnotagolem]

While the river seems an easy disposal tie, whisperer is right, there are plenty of dumpsters close to their home that Lisa could have been put in.

Indepmo, thanks for sharing the info on the call & a pic of the bridge, you rock.

 

[iamnotagolem]

How many searches were done at the landfill? There were lots of searches in the backyard and neighborhood, it's quite likely that she was dispose of quite close to home. It wouldn't even need to be a commercial dumpster, they could have put her in a neighbors trash can. Who really looks in their trash before taking it to the curb?

 

[RANCH]

How many searches were done at the landfill? There were lots of searches in the backyard and neighborhood, it's quite likely that she was dispose of quite close to home. It wouldn't even need to be a commercial dumpster, they could have put her in a neighbors trash can. Who really looks in their trash before taking it to the curb?

I found this article that say's the FBI searched the local landfill two times. I'm not sure how many times KCPD searched the landfill on their own.

KANSAS CITY, Mo. &#8212; FBI agents scoured a Kansas landfill for the second time this week as the search for a missing 10-month-old Missouri girl entered its fourth day &#8212; and just hours after the child&#8217;s mother said police accused her of being involved.

Maybe it's just me, but I always look in my garbage can before I move it out to the curb. Mainly because I wait to the last minute before I bring everything I want to get rid of from the house and put it in the can. JMO.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/8102749-418/story.html

 

[norest4thewicked]

Unfortunately, whether Lisa went into the landfill or into the river, there is little chance that her tiny body will be found.

I think the dumpster fire was more likely DB burning clothing - hers and/or Lisa's.

 

[RANCH]

Unfortunately, whether Lisa went into the landfill or into the river, there is little chance that her tiny body will be found.

I think the dumpster fire was more likely DB burning clothing - hers and/or Lisa's.

Your right that if Lisa's dead, it would be difficult to find her remains at this stage.

As for the dumpster fire, if there was some supporting evidence that DB was responsible, then I would agree with you. Until then, I'm not even sure if the dumpster fire is related to Lisa's disappearance.
JMO.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I found this article that say's the FBI searched the local landfill two times. I'm not sure how many times KCPD searched the landfill on their own.

Maybe it's just me, but I always look in my garbage can before I move it out to the curb. Mainly because I wait to the last minute before I bring everything I want to get rid of from the house and put it in the can. JMO.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/8102749-418/story.html

We started to after we discovered our neighbor was throwing dead mice in our can so his wouldn't stink. Lovely.

I realized this is the river thread, so I'll leave the rest of the trash ideas alone.

 

[KsStormy]

Has anyone heard how this awful drought may affect the river levels, & consequently how that combined with the extreme heat might affect searches along the river? What types of things should the regular Joe look out for, such as those tubing or fishing along the Missouri?

 

[KsStormy]

Unfortunately, whether Lisa went into the landfill or into the river, there is little chance that her tiny body will be found.

I think the dumpster fire was more likely DB burning clothing - hers and/or Lisa's.

I agree. There have been rumors from locals that I have heard that LE have been seen searching the log jams & etc on the river...may not be related to the case, but you never know...

 

[iamnotagolem]

Why does everyone here theorize that Lisa was deceased before leaving the house? What if she was injured from a fall that caused severe swelling but no bleeding, and in an attempt to cover up her negligence (intoxicated when an accident could took place) Lisa was removed from the home and passed before being disposed? The dog hit would make more sense next to moms bed if she was wearing clothing when Lisa was disposed of and that's where she undressed to pass out when she got home. JMO

I've wondered that same thing many times. The hit on the floor could be transfer from DB's clothes. Would certainly explain no hit in the car. I still wonder about the elementary school and nearby daycare (dumpsters) It's a short walk to either place.