MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #3

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Universecalling said:
GSDs are excellent at listening to commands. While their initial bite might leave a rounded bite mark, they tend to shake their head causing an additional tear within that rounded puncture mark. The command takes a split second to give, but the intrinsic nature to protect may overpower the command for just another 2-3 seconds, which is more than enough to cause that tear while they’re thrashing the head.
All this while they pin down with paws on each side, and they may bite down twice quickly bc the first bite wasn’t a good grab so they readjust the jaw.
So you get a bunch of smaller ripped puncture wounds with straight scratches on each side from their nails.
And if the person is standing the bite tears downwards.

Full disclosure, I haven’t watched any canine expert opinions on this case, bc I wanted to experience their testimony through the jury’s eyes.
I’m only sharing from personal experience and could be wrong/completely opposite from an expert’s opinion.
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GSDs are exceptionally smart and loyal. A GSD is not only a hard-working dog, it is of the kind who’d give own life for its human.
 
Charlot123 said:
OK, we have zero knowledge that Chloe was involved. All I see are deep scratches. Could come from human nails, too.

Two days ago I listened to some ex-DEA agent who suddenly became an expert on the case. (??? No one was tampering with street drugs in this case AFAIK). He said, "I know an insider source, I can't tell you who he is, but he says that...". You know what I think of such statements. The same with Chloe. The lawyers accuse Chloe - but is there any proof?

I rather suspect that an obvious thing happened- the dog bit someone, BA euthanized the dog but now is too ashamed of acknowledging it because you know, we all love dogs. But, I once saw the results of someone being bitten by a pit bull. First, it looks different, and second, the owner lost a home in a lawsuit and had to put the animal down. So I know that things happen.
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Until the State presents credible evidence that JO's wounds were caused by a vehicle impact in the manner alleged, discussing and thinking about how Chloe may have been involved in causing those wounds is a legitimate area of speculation. Imo. I'm really looking forward to expert testimony on the wounds. Nothing at all so far from the State, defense has experts in their line up. Moo

It strikes me as gross investigative negligence that for whatever reason LE did NOT proritise to the ME to swab the wounds for dna OR at the very least if the scratch looking type wounds were swabbed (?) we learnt yesterday that no such hypothetical swabs were sent to the vetinarian animal dna specialist for analysis. Moo

You mention the idea that fingernails could have caused those scratch like wounds. I guess with the implication that maybe KR scratched up JO or maybe someone else did. All I'll say is that as it appears that the wounds were not swabbed, any line of enquiry via dna to narrow down the 'mystery' is now closed.Moo. I guess maybe LE weren't confident enough they would find KR's dna from finger nails in those wounds to prioritise swabbing. Or what would happen if they found another person's dna embedded in the scratch like wounds. Jmo

And seriously, if it happenned this way, what is the deal with the ME not taking swab samples from those scratch like wounds independent of LE's priorities, as best and independent practise. This whole thing is incredible imo and my mind boggles.

Lastly I don't get why you keep referring to a pit bull in the context of discussing Chloe, who from all accounts was a German Shepherd if I have that right.
 
jepop said:
Until the State presents credible evidence that JO's wounds were caused by a vehicle impact in the manner alleged, discussing and thinking about how Chloe may have been involved in causing those wounds is a legitimate area of speculation. Imo. I'm really looking forward to expert testimony on the wounds. Nothing at all so far from the State, defense has experts in their line up. Moo

It strikes me as gross investigative negligence that for whatever reason LE did NOT proritise to the ME to swab the wounds for dna OR at the very least if the scratch looking type wounds were swabbed (?) we learnt yesterday that no such hypothetical swabs were sent to the vetinarian animal dna specialist for analysis. Moo

You mention the idea that fingernails could have caused those scratch like wounds. I guess with the implication that maybe KR scratched up JO or maybe someone else did. All I'll say is that as it appears that the wounds were not swabbed, any line of enquiry via dna to narrow down the 'mystery' is now closed.Moo. I guess maybe LE weren't confident enough they would find KR's dna from finger nails in those wounds to prioritise swabbing. Or what would happen if they found another person's dna embedded in the scratch like wounds. Jmo

And seriously, if it happenned this way, what is the deal with the ME not taking swab samples from those scratch like wounds independent of LE's priorities, as best and independent practise. This whole thing is incredible imo and my mind boggles.

Lastly I don't get why you keep referring to a pit bull in the context of discussing Chloe, who from all accounts was a German Shepherd if I have that right.
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Aren’t we all doing the same? We are comparing the theories proposed by the prosecution and the defense and discussing what sounds plausible, and what doesn’t. We are not involved in the case, the jurors are protected from laymen’s opinion, so we are discussing what seems believable, and what doesn’t. Hence, IMHO. As to another breed, I am trying to compare oranges to oranges. If the only dog bite in my life I saw was from another dog breed, this is the point of reference I can use. In the absence of DNA testing, of course the best would be to listen to the specialist, but doesn’t it apply to everyone discussing it here?

MOO - so far, neither of the theories, be it proposed by the prosecution or the defense, looks overwhelmingly convincing. For me, it is really looking at what holds more water.

ETA: I agree with you about subpar investigative work of the LE and ME. I can only say that there are many indications of Trooper Proctor’s poor human and professional qualities. Besides this, it was the beginning of 2022, and I would like to know, how many policemen were patrolling the streets of MA, how many detectives were working at cases, how overwhelmed were the labs?
 
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Charlot123 said:
Well, a good dog protects own masters and the house.

TBH, the dog that attacked a human, as I suspect, might have been somehow provoked, too, but no one saw the attack. The problem with pit bulls is, once they bite, they can’t unbite. What I saw were pieces of meat torn out of the leg, it needed surgeries, etc.

And this is the question I wanted to ask you about GSs. They have different jaws (pitbulls remind me of Stafford terriers). However, if your dog bit a human, didn’t it leave rounded bite marks?

What I saw here were scratched left by a dog I once knew on the floor. Deep and parallel. Bites, no.

How does it look to you?
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That thing about bulldogs locking their jaws is a myth. Much repeated, but not fact. The only 'lockjaw' dogs can have is a serious medical condition, like arthritis or tetanus.

www.bulldogworld.co.uk

Do English Bulldogs have Lockjaw?

Despite what you may have been told, no dog has the ability to lock their jaw, so no, English Bulldogs do not have Lockjaw.
www.bulldogworld.co.uk www.bulldogworld.co.uk
 
iamshadow21 said:
That thing about bulldogs locking their jaws is a myth. Much repeated, but not fact. The only 'lockjaw' dogs can have is a serious medical condition, like arthritis or tetanus.

www.bulldogworld.co.uk

Do English Bulldogs have Lockjaw?

Despite what you may have been told, no dog has the ability to lock their jaw, so no, English Bulldogs do not have Lockjaw.
www.bulldogworld.co.uk www.bulldogworld.co.uk
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Thank you. It has been repeated not once, the explanation provided would be that people bred them for dog fights. I absolutely detest the idea of dog fights, so it stuck in my head. Happy to get more information about dogs anytime.
 
Charlot123 said:
Well, a good dog protects own masters and the house.

TBH, the dog that attacked a human, as I suspect, might have been somehow provoked, too, but no one saw the attack. The problem with pit bulls is, once they bite, they can’t unbite. What I saw were pieces of meat torn out of the leg, it needed surgeries, etc.

And this is the question I wanted to ask you about GSs. They have different jaws (pitbulls remind me of Stafford terriers). However, if your dog bit a human, didn’t it leave rounded bite marks?

What I saw here were scratched left by a dog I once knew on the floor. Deep and parallel. Bites, no.

How does it look to you?
Click to expand...

Is my dog a bad dog because if someone broke into the house he'd run up on them and lick them to death?
 
arielilane said:
Thank you. I was more concerned about the older iPhone, the one prior to the one she got in Dec. :)

Good catch on the screenshots you noted above!
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Responding to my own post, wanted to also say:

And about the text message possibly since its an older iPhone perhaps the iOS update(s) were not done. moo ;)
 
Colin’s testimony didn’t appear suspect; however, the part about going to see parents before bed to give a goodnight is a definite red flag because when I did underage drinking in high school I’d stay as far away from my parents to avoid the risk they would smell it on me. Additionally, he appeared nervous at times during testimony, though, this is a 20 year old and that would be expected. Will see what defense has today. All a matter of opinion.


@SueNBCBoston

How do you get into your home?- a key or I get buzzed in, have to go up 3 flights of stairs.Do you know of A McCabe was still there?- I don’t knowWho was home?-parents and brother- I always tell my parents I’m home, I go to their room, say I love you, hug them go to bed


3:37 PM · May 15, 2024
 
arielilane said:
Colin’s testimony didn’t appear suspect; however, the part about going to see parents before bed to give a goodnight is a definite red flag because when I did underage drinking in high school I’d stay as far away from my parents to avoid the risk they would smell it on me.
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I don't think any of the Alberts have an issue with 17 year old kids coming home drunk.
arielilane said:
She got upset speaking about the harassment by blogger. moo
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She brought the blogger up because she was getting flustered with the questioning. Not a fan, and I don't doubt it's been very stressful, but TB wasn't in Canton that night.
 
@SueNBCBoston

Thursday - Day 13 of testimony in the #KarenRead trial. I’m in the courtroom. Follow this thread for observations and paraphrased testimony. Watch the trial on @NECN or our digital platforms @NBC10Boston
https://twitter.com/x/status/1791086420372635867

Watch the trial here or in our NBC10 Boston YouTube channel.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1791086819112620231


https://twitter.com/x/status/1791087125623971995

Colin Albert taking the stand again today, we expect text messages he sent and received the night in question to be the focus.
The defense believes his whereabouts the night in question are in question.


The defense, #KarenRead & 10 spectators, her family & friends, are in the courtroom.
A few are wearing some pink.
No court staff or prosecutors yet.


At the close of court yesterday Judge Cannone said she wanted to start at 9am.


The OKeefe family is entering the courtroom.
Some court staff are in place.


Today is a pre-scheduled 1/2 day.
 
@BienickWCVB

#KarenRead Good morning. Day 13 is expected to begin with cross-examination of Colin Albert. He's one of the people the defense is trying to implicate in the death of John O'Keefe. On Thursday, Albert said he left the house at 12:10pm and never had any animosity against O'Keefe.


8:47 AM · May 16, 2024
 
@JHall7news

Good morning - a cool rainy day in Dedham (chilly in this courtroom) as the #karenreadtrial continues. This is day 13 of testimony in the case.


20 year-old Colin Albert, a college student who was at a party at his Uncle Brian's home on Fairview the night of John O'Keefes' death, will be back onthe witness stand and is exected to face intense cross examination from Alan Jackson, defense attorney.


Colin testified yesterday he never saw O'Keefe enter the home. And he had a friendly relationship with the victim, no animosity. The jury saw text messages between Colin and his friend Allie McCabe which seem to confirm the plan was to pick him up just after midnight.


Colin told the jury he left the party just as his Aunt and Uncle were getting home from the Waterfall bar. He said he got in Allie's car and left. She confirmed that account. All had been drinking.
 
@BienickWCVB

Yannetti says it led to a moment that the prosecutor "has been waiting for", a witness breaking down on the stand. Says it was prejudicial to Read.

"I disagree with you in the strongest way possible," says Judge Beverly Cannone. She will allow all of McCabe's testimony to be considered by the jury.


9:16 AM · May 16, 2024
 
Colin Albert takes the stand and says he spoke to Adam Lally to prepare for his testimony, and they conferred a month ago. "I got prepped." He spoke to his lawyer too. But not his parents. Colin says he can't remember questions he said Lally would ask.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1791096873198964906
 
@SueNBCBoston

I spoke to a number of legal experts last night about when, exactly, the door to that testimony was opened. They were unclear. I’d have to re-read A. McCabe’s testimony, but it seems the ruling is: her screenshot of the text exchange was a reaction to the harassment (in part)


9:19 AM · May 16, 2024
 
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