Madeleine died 'after large sleeping pill overdose'

[hcc2007]

They were drinking and partying. I don't even know how many times I have done dumb or foolish things in that state...

-- Me too! The first time I had a glass of wine after my daughter's birth (she was about 3 months old), I brought her home, placed her on a bed and left the room. Next thing I knew, she'd fallen onto the floor. I felt HORRIBLE! And I didn't drink again for several years. Parents of young children should not drink, as you never know when you'll need to have your senses sharp.

-- BTW anyone who's tried to have a career and raise young children will tell you, without doubt, THEY SEDATED THEM. It's not that we've all done it, but plenty of us have wanted to. I recall occasionally wishing my daughter would get a stuffy nose so I could justify the use of benadryl. I never cheated, but instead found other solutions.

When you're also working for a living, you can be seriously exhausted and at your wits' end when the child won't go to sleep.

-- I settled on two solutions: 1) driving around in the car (that always put her out); or 2) bringing her to bed with us (when it was too late for a drive).

-- In the old days (the 1950s) mothers just let us cry ourselves to sleep. That was cold and cruel if you ask me, but it was a different time.

None of these solutions is perfect but they're all better than drugs.

JMO

 

[BethInAK]

I forgot to add this lol :sick:

LOL!! I was thinking "OUCH" as I read your last post.

 

[Brefie]

hope you feel better!

I do, much better..thanks!

You could be right and still be naive, can we still throw the fruit??:crazy:

Um.....that's a big fat NO, Rino....but thanks for asking!

Christine.....thanks, chicky, I think you are pretty fab, too

 

[ThoughtFox]

-- Me too! The first time I had a glass of wine after my daughter's birth (she was about 3 months old), I brought her home, placed her on a bed and left the room. Next thing I knew, she'd fallen onto the floor. I felt HORRIBLE! And I didn't drink again for several years. Parents of young children should not drink, as you never know when you'll need to have your senses sharp.

-- BTW anyone who's tried to have a career and raise young children will tell you, without doubt, THEY SEDATED THEM. It's not that we've all done it, but plenty of us have wanted to. I recall occasionally wishing my daughter would get a stuffy nose so I could justify the use of benadryl. I never cheated, but instead found other solutions.

I have unfortunately heard lots of parents making jokes about dosing their kids with Benadryl - or whatever prescription meds they've got around. I've never understood that or thought it was funny.

Everyone is sometimes too tired to deal with their kids, and to that I can only say, welcome to parenthood and learn to stay awake longer.

Basically, when I've been to resort type places in the U.S., the kids are included at mealtime. Maybe I'm the one who is naive, but who ever said that parents are "entitled" to all that free time during a family vacation, especially if there are no relatives or babysitters there to watch the kids? Those children were just babies, and they shouldn't have been left alone. It's a wonder something didn't happen to all three of them.

Why bother to have kids at all if someone is a socialite who just wants to sedate them so they'll pass out? It's just wrong. It's unhealthy, but it's also unnatural. It's compartmentalizing your children to the point of craziness.

 

[Squishified]

Wasn't there a day care operator who went on trial a couple of years ago for overdosing a baby with Benadryl or something similar?
I watched it on Court TV. I believe she was found guilty (but I can't remember on what charges).

 

[kgeaux]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ews.html?in_article_id=481642&in_page_id=1811
Madeleine McCann died of an overdose of sleeping pills, it was reported tonight.

A respected French newspaper said it had seen evidence that body fluids found in the boot of her parents' hire car proved the missing girl had been sedated.
France Soir said DNA analysis of the fluids showed the four-year-old had ingested larged quantities of sleeping pills. The newspaper said it had seen "hard evidence", now in the hands of the Portuguese authorities, about Madeleine's "death".........


Guilhem Battut, an investigative journalist with the paper, said a report outlining how she died was already with Portuguese prosecutors. He said scientific analyses of the fluids found in the car boot "prove that the little girl had ingested medicines, without doubt sleeping pills, in large quantities". These would have caused "an overdose", said Battut's report.

(snip)


I posted this in another thread, but I thought it was very interesting and didn't want it buried.

I'm just popping in. I've been following the story but not 'really' closely.

I'm really curious about this, though.

IF Portugese authorities are in possesion of Madeline's bodily fluids, which prove she was sedated, why do you think no one has been arrested yet? I mean that would be strong evidence to bring to the judge, right?

 

[spacecowboy]

-

-- I settled on two solutions: 1) driving around in the car (that always put her out); or 2) bringing her to bed with us (when it was too late for a drive).

-- In the old days (the 1950s) mothers just let us cry ourselves to sleep. That was cold and cruel if you ask me, but it was a different time.

Actually science now backs up the cruelness of crying it out. Lots of research has been done and they now know the chemicals released when babies are stressed affect the way the brain develops and can cause problems for the rest of their life (mental health and stress related conditions). Thing is it's not obvious to parents as the consequences are not immediate.

So I cosleep with my babies, in countries where most people have their babies in bed they have never heard of SIDS. The rate is so low there.
I know alot of parents who work and love to cosleep to get in the cuddles they missed in the day and baby can catch up on some breastfeeds.

 

[bulletgirl2002]

Wasn't there a day care operator who went on trial a couple of years ago for overdosing a baby with Benadryl or something similar?
I watched it on Court TV. I believe she was found guilty (but I can't remember on what charges).

Oh yes. That was a co-worker of mine whose baby boy was killed by the day care operator with Benedryl. She was found guilty and has to wear an ankle bracelet for 5 years. No jail time though. She can't ever have a day care again. This was a licensed day care in an individual's home. They are in litigation with the makers of benedryl for not putting a warning on the label and their goal is to have them put a warning on the label about giving it to babies. Their livers cannot process it like adults and I can't remember how many babies she told me are killed each year (a few) by this practice. The woman didn't even come to the baby's funeral or tell her she was sorry or anything.

 

[Sundayrain]

Oh yes. That was a co-worker of mine whose baby boy was killed by the day care operator with Benedryl. She was found guilty and has to wear an ankle bracelet for 5 years. No jail time though. She can't ever have a day care again. This was a licensed day care in an individual's home. They are in litigation with the makers of benedryl for not putting a warning on the label and their goal is to have them put a warning on the label about giving it to babies. Their livers cannot process it like adults and I can't remember how many babies she told me are killed each year (a few) by this practice. The woman didn't even come to the baby's funeral or tell her she was sorry or anything.

I'm not defending this lady in anyway. But, I know from two car accidents in the family( no one was killed) that its the Lawyer who tells the person
" not to say sorry" and " not to have contact".......For the case that comes about apparently, it is admitting pure guilt, and thus ........your told not to do those things, even if you personally want to.

 

[pedinurse]

Actually science now backs up the cruelness of crying it out. Lots of research has been done and they now know the chemicals released when babies are stressed affect the way the brain develops and can cause problems for the rest of their life (mental health and stress related conditions). Thing is it's not obvious to parents as the consequences are not immediate.

So I cosleep with my babies, in countries where most people have their babies in bed they have never heard of SIDS. The rate is so low there.
I know alot of parents who work and love to cosleep to get in the cuddles they missed in the day and baby can catch up on some breastfeeds.

Yes, but those countries, you hear of the deaths where the mothers have laid on the babies and accidentally smothered them. It happens in grass huts in africa, sadly. and they have no other option... they don't have cribs! Remember the story in the bible where the King threatened to split the baby in half between the two women to find out who the real mother was? That was due to a cosleeping death!
Sorry, that's my soapbox. Yes, people love to cosleep. I just was always too afraid too. It's just not recommended. I had a crib available to me, a bassinette at the bedside. I nursed my baby, and I had a great hubby who didn't even make me get out of the bed at night... he would bring baby to me. I was able to be lazy! So, I didn't have to cosleep for ease of feeding. Some people do... it makes it a lot easier on them when they need to get some much needed rest from caring for a newborn. But it is just really risky. Pillow top mattresses are just too risky, along with the fact that headboards allow for a gap where children could mechanically get strangled between the headboard and mattress or footboard and mattress. Or they could fall off the bed to the floor, causing trauma. The fluffy bedding on adult beds can cause SIDS and smoothering (we think that it is possible the extra bedding gets near the face - but we never know with SIDS - you just never know. We think just some forget to start breathing again). Every year you hear about parents who roll over and lay on the baby (especially newborns) because they are asleep - or they roll over, and if they aren't laying on top of the baby, they are blocking the baby's airway or covering the baby so they aren't able to breath. That is a HUGE risk. New parents are SO very very tired. I feel badly for them. Sometimes, they just don't wake up. I know that I slept walked during the first two months after both my kids were born. If parent are overtired, drinking, or taking sleeping pills... or taking any sort sedatives (benadryl?) they should absolutely NOT cosleep!
:twocents:
There's no stepping off my soapbox smiley face.. so I will shut my yapper now.

 

[pedinurse]

I've been a peds nurse for 30+ years. We once used the same syringes for adminstering oral, IM or IV medications. Today there are special syringes for oral medications. They're available in any pharmacy and are a very accurate tool for adminstering oral medications to children. Most of the major pediatric medical centers have converted to these syringes for adminstering oral medications and use another type of syringe to adminster IM or IV medications. It's a matter of cost.

Don't confuse syringes with needles. Needles are ATTACHED to syringes. They can be packaged togther or separately.

Exactly. That was what I was trying to clarify with my posting. I was seeing syringe all over the original post, and I was seeing that syringe was being linked to an IM or IV injection - when the syringe (needleless) could have been used to administer liquid medications orally to small children. The twins and Maddie were small enough that it would be completely appropriate to give them oral meds with an oral syringe, no needles involved! That would actually be my PREFERRED way to give them liquid oral medications! I personally hate droppers and cups. Give me a syringe to measure out ML's any day!
I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that they were getting shot up with anything quite yet... it is entirely possible that the McCann's were giving the kids oral sedatives, if they were doing anything sinister medication wise. Or you know, many times twins are premature - what if this set was? Could they have been giving them their regular medication with the oral syringes? Could they, or Maddie, have had any persistent healthcare problems that might have required any daily medication? What about any "as needed" medications such as Claritin that they might have wanted to give the kids on vacation for allergies with all the tropical plants? Anyway... those are just some thoughts. Those things might require the need for oral liquid medications, and the need for oral syringes. There might be good reasons to have oral syringes in the room. I know I took some with me on my vacation with the kiddos!

 

[philamena]

I have unfortunately heard lots of parents making jokes about dosing their kids with Benadryl - or whatever prescription meds they've got around. I've never understood that or thought it was funny.

Everyone is sometimes too tired to deal with their kids, and to that I can only say, welcome to parenthood and learn to stay awake longer.

Basically, when I've been to resort type places in the U.S., the kids are included at mealtime. Maybe I'm the one who is naive, but who ever said that parents are "entitled" to all that free time during a family vacation, especially if there are no relatives or babysitters there to watch the kids? Those children were just babies, and they shouldn't have been left alone. It's a wonder something didn't happen to all three of them.

Why bother to have kids at all if someone is a socialite who just wants to sedate them so they'll pass out? It's just wrong. It's unhealthy, but it's also unnatural. It's compartmentalizing your children to the point of craziness.

You said it TFox!:clap::clap:

 

[BethInAK]

Oh yes. That was a co-worker of mine whose baby boy was killed by the day care operator with Benedryl. She was found guilty and has to wear an ankle bracelet for 5 years. No jail time though. She can't ever have a day care again. This was a licensed day care in an individual's home. They are in litigation with the makers of benedryl for not putting a warning on the label and their goal is to have them put a warning on the label about giving it to babies. Their livers cannot process it like adults and I can't remember how many babies she told me are killed each year (a few) by this practice. The woman didn't even come to the baby's funeral or tell her she was sorry or anything.

OTC benadryl is not not recommended by the manufacturer until age SIX. So they might have won that lawsuit.

 

[pedinurse]

You said it TFox!:clap::clap:

You know, we were at a well known large family resort this summer. At times, there were parents who probably went to the adults only resturant, ate dinner on the beach, or maybe just wanted some alone time at dinner time. You would see the nannies with children at dinner time with kids at the resturants. They would feed them at the resturants at the buffet! And the kids would be having a blast!
At those times (when the parents wanted alone time, or if they were out on an excursion), you could hire the nanny for even VERY late nights! You'd see the nanny with children at dinner time at the resturants, taking the kids (you could tell it was a one on one child or a sibling group to the resturants), and they were having the GREATEST times with those nannies! At the resort we were at, the childcare workers were really awesome. I really liked the nannies at the resort we were at... they were the best. My 14 month old who doesn't go to daycare at all at home would just wave at those ladies (who are different from him ethnically and speak with an accent - I really thought he would be scared, and they commented at how happy a baby he was and how well he adjusted even though he didn't even go to daycare!) and he would just giggle and laugh! They were really good with the kids. Of course, this was not at the resort Maddie was at...

But you know, the last two resorts we have stayed at were heavily populated by people from England and europe. For instance, the week we stayed at the resort we stayed at this past summer, we were one of only a handful of American families there (even though this resort is heavily marketed in the US). I think it was due to the week of booking and the fact that there was a large plane of families that came in together. Most of the families on the resort were there from Britian. It was an extremely long flight for them to get there, and they all stay for two weeks! They have small children too... I don't know how they do it - I couldn't handle my kids on such a long flight! They are heros! They are such nice and polite people too. I enjoy vacationing with them. I'll tell you, my hubby and I live near two resort or vacation towns that we run to for quick get aways... the people can be rude. I've never had that experience on these vacations.
Anyway, I have to say it was nice because at the resort we stayed at in December (not this summer), we were one of VERY few english speaking families, so we were kind of in culture shock during that vacation. The only people who did actually speak english were from Britian. So everytime I stay on a resort, I get use to British accents (they are so nice!). The other people who spoke english were second english speakers - but they were so nice... they always said "we enjoy getting to practice our english!" They were all from France and Spain and other parts of Europe.

And you know what at BOTH resorts... none of them left their kids in their rooms... that I know of. I remember that some of them even brought their kids to the late night coffee bars and let them sit in their laps while they sat around and talked! It was just normal "family" time! I think we all did! The bars, alcohol and coffee serving type areas ect were just common areas... not "bars" or rowdy type or dancing type areas (even though they did have those separate)... and people would just take their strollers there after dinner, get a table, and sit there and talk in circles. They included their kids in the after dinner time, and usually took the kids with them to dinner. I just don't know why you wouldn't take your kids with you!

So, in summary... I think the McCann's were just crazy - go - nuts for leaving their kids in the room and sedating them if that is what they did so they could just go to dinner. How selfish. *sigh* No one else does it. It isn't a "socially acceptable" thing. I don't see parents darting off and doing that other places... have never seen it. How weird.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Exactly. That was what I was trying to clarify with my posting. I was seeing syringe all over the original post, and I was seeing that syringe was being linked to an IM or IV injection - when the syringe (needleless) could have been used to administer liquid medications orally to small children. The twins and Maddie were small enough that it would be completely appropriate to give them oral meds with an oral syringe, no needles involved! That would actually be my PREFERRED way to give them liquid oral medications! I personally hate droppers and cups. Give me a syringe to measure out ML's any day!

The press are the ones saying the word "syringe" over and over, so people are naturally going to jump to a bad conclusion. I had to think for a minute about what you were saying, because I haven't used one of those plastic medicine dropper thingys since my youngest was 2 years old ten years ago. So I can understand why folks are confused if they aren't in the health care profession.

Yes those syringes are convenient and work well with children, but that's not the point - the point is that Maddie is gone and there were syringes in the drawer by the bed, and they expected the children to always sleep through dinner, which is when Maddie disappeared. It's all too coincidental - and these parents were doctors, so of course they would know the easiest way to get kids to swallow medicine, but that doesn't make it right.

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that they were getting shot up with anything quite yet... it is entirely possible that the McCann's were giving the kids oral sedatives, if they were doing anything sinister medication wise. Or you know, many times twins are premature - what if this set was? Could they have been giving them their regular medication with the oral syringes? Could they, or Maddie, have had any persistent healthcare problems that might have required any daily medication?

I've never read or heard anything like that. If it was true, why wouldn't the parents be vehemently explaining all that to the public? I would! Or why not leak it to the press from one of their outspoken relatives? I think that would have come out by now.

What about any "as needed" medications such as Claritin that they might have wanted to give the kids on vacation for allergies with all the tropical plants? Anyway... those are just some thoughts. Those things might require the need for oral liquid medications, and the need for oral syringes. There might be good reasons to have oral syringes in the room. I know I took some with me on my vacation with the kiddos!

Is Claritin for toddlers? That stuff knocks me out cold.

As I said, there is nothing evil in them having the syringes around - why not? Maybe they were giving them the pain killer for sunburn, as someone said, and that's a reasonable thing. And in any other circumstance, those syringes wouldn't be significant, but this is a crime scene, and to me that makes alot of difference.

 

[pedinurse]

The press are the ones saying the word "syringe" over and over, so people are naturally going to jump to a bad conclusion. I had to think for a minute about what you were saying, because I haven't used one of those plastic medicine dropper thingys since my youngest was 2 years old ten years ago. So I can understand why folks are confused if they aren't in the health care profession.

Yes those syringes are convenient and work well with children, but that's not the point - the point is that Maddie is gone and there were syringes in the drawer by the bed, and they expected the children to always sleep through dinner, which is when Maddie disappeared. It's all too coincidental - and these parents were doctors, so of course they would know the easiest way to get kids to swallow medicine, but that doesn't make it right.


I've never read or heard anything like that. If it was true, why wouldn't the parents be vehemently explaining all that to the public? I would! Or why not leak it to the press from one of their outspoken relatives? I think that would have come out by now.


Is Claritin for toddlers? That stuff knocks me out cold.

As I said, there is nothing evil in them having the syringes around - why not? Maybe they were giving them the pain killer for sunburn, as someone said, and that's a reasonable thing. And in any other circumstance, those syringes wouldn't be significant, but this is a crime scene, and to me that makes alot of difference.

Oh yeah, I can totally see how it would be easy to jump to syringe and injection... there is a huge link there. I mean, for even an adult, you don't usually give an adult an oral medication with a syringe, right? But kids are different... that's the only thing. If you found syringes at the scene of an adult crime scene, I'd immediately think DRUGS! But kids... you know... there's always the alternatives... just wanted to jump up and say something. But it would be a logical next step for most people to think syringes then injection in most cases.

Yeah... some kids end up on stuff like Claritin as toddlers... but a doctor or provider has to OK it if any kid is to take anything! So, yeah, some toddlers end up on Claritin. My son, the reactive airway / allergy kid, was on Clartin at the age of 6 months (that's early), then ended up on Zyrtec (Godsend!)... he had a nasty snotty nose (still does if he doesn't take it...). But they make you try stuff like Claritin syrup first. It's nasty tasting stuff. But it saved him from getting ear tubes (runny noses lead to ear infections) so if he has to take a script so he doesn't have to have surgery... I'm all about it!

 

[philamena]

You know, we were at a well known large family resort this summer. At times, there were parents who probably went to the adults only resturant, ate dinner on the beach, or maybe just wanted some alone time at dinner time. You would see the nannies with children at dinner time with kids at the resturants. They would feed them at the resturants at the buffet! And the kids would be having a blast!
At those times (when the parents wanted alone time, or if they were out on an excursion), you could hire the nanny for even VERY late nights! You'd see the nanny with children at dinner time at the resturants, taking the kids (you could tell it was a one on one child or a sibling group to the resturants), and they were having the GREATEST times with those nannies! At the resort we were at, the childcare workers were really awesome. I really liked the nannies at the resort we were at... they were the best. My 14 month old who doesn't go to daycare at all at home would just wave at those ladies (who are different from him ethnically and speak with an accent - I really thought he would be scared, and they commented at how happy a baby he was and how well he adjusted even though he didn't even go to daycare!) and he would just giggle and laugh! They were really good with the kids. Of course, this was not at the resort Maddie was at...

But you know, the last two resorts we have stayed at were heavily populated by people from England and europe. For instance, the week we stayed at the resort we stayed at this past summer, we were one of only a handful of American families there (even though this resort is heavily marketed in the US). I think it was due to the week of booking and the fact that there was a large plane of families that came in together. Most of the families on the resort were there from Britian. It was an extremely long flight for them to get there, and they all stay for two weeks! They have small children too... I don't know how they do it - I couldn't handle my kids on such a long flight! They are heros! They are such nice and polite people too. I enjoy vacationing with them. I'll tell you, my hubby and I live near two resort or vacation towns that we run to for quick get aways... the people can be rude. I've never had that experience on these vacations.
Anyway, I have to say it was nice because at the resort we stayed at in December (not this summer), we were one of VERY few english speaking families, so we were kind of in culture shock during that vacation. The only people who did actually speak english were from Britian. So everytime I stay on a resort, I get use to British accents (they are so nice!). The other people who spoke english were second english speakers - but they were so nice... they always said "we enjoy getting to practice our english!" They were all from France and Spain and other parts of Europe.

And you know what at BOTH resorts... none of them left their kids in their rooms... that I know of. I remember that some of them even brought their kids to the late night coffee bars and let them sit in their laps while they sat around and talked! It was just normal "family" time! I think we all did! The bars, alcohol and coffee serving type areas ect were just common areas... not "bars" or rowdy type or dancing type areas (even though they did have those separate)... and people would just take their strollers there after dinner, get a table, and sit there and talk in circles. They included their kids in the after dinner time, and usually took the kids with them to dinner. I just don't know why you wouldn't take your kids with you!

So, in summary... I think the McCann's were just crazy - go - nuts for leaving their kids in the room and sedating them if that is what they did so they could just go to dinner. How selfish. *sigh* No one else does it. It isn't a "socially acceptable" thing. I don't see parents darting off and doing that other places... have never seen it. How weird.

pedinurse,
I sure wish the McCann's and their vacationing friends could have read your post before they went on holiday! How great that you vacationed at a spot that offered such great services. More importantly isn't it wonderful that patrons took advantage of the service?

I am furious with the McCann's leaving their precious children alone. If they'd used their educated brains and hired a nanny, all 3 of their children would be safe and sound....and at home.

 

[narlacat]

BREFIE!!!

Seriously...you haven't seen this????? http://news.sky.com/skynews/picture_gallery/picture_gallery/0,,30000-1267634-1,00.html

These pics were taken May 27th!!

The Daily Mail messed up when they indicated that that pic was taken "yesterday".

I see two people trying to fake it for their kids.

Brefie- it wouldn't matter if they were crying at the park with the kids, posters here have convicted them on how they come across in the press- they are seeing what they want to see- and what they want to see is someone pay for the disappearance of this little girl when there is nothing concrete against these two people as I type, some french paper saying she over dosed and some leaks about blood in the trunk of the car..

 

[CaliKid]

Why would they have to fake it? The McCanns had such a steady stream of family members who traveled back and forth to Portugal to help them (which probably included minding the kids) that there was hardly a day when a relative wasn't with them. The McCanns also took the twins to the resort creche almost every day after Madeleine disappeared. Apparently, they continued to do the same thing as they had before the night of May 3- pass off care of their children to someone else so they didn't have to deal with it. It's just too bad they didn't give Madeleine the same courtesy.

 

[narlacat]

Why would they have to fake it? The McCanns had such a steady stream of family members who traveled back and forth to Portugal to help them (which probably included minding the kids) that there was hardly a day when a relative wasn't with them. The McCanns also took the twins to the resort creche almost every day after Madeleine disappeared. Apparently, they continued to do the same thing as they had before the night of May 3- pass off care of their children to someone else so they didn't have to deal with it. It's just too bad they didn't give Madeleine the same courtesy.

Looking at it from a innocent until proven guilty angle K & G are innocent, their little girl is missing, the press is hounding them relentlessly and the worlds wants to blame someone for the death of an innocent- namely them.
They would hardly be in the mood for playing with their children in the park, I see them faking smiles and doing what it takes to get through.