Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 24

[SleuthMom]

No worries IW try this link.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...nn-police-didnt-reveal-sighting-of-Maddy.html

The critisism came from Portugal’s own public prosecutors :clap:

I agree the PJ did not handle EVERYTHING as they should have. The fact the Mc Canns are free is the proof.

 

[april4sky]

I agree the PJ did not handle EVERYTHING as they should have. The fact the Mc Canns are free is the proof.

Proof :waitasec: I don't think so.:waitasec:

It's no thanks to the PJ they are free it's thanks to the truth that there never was any "evidence"...as confirmed in the conclusion of the PJ's final report. :clap: :clap:

 

[Gatinho]

Sorry guys but too much bickering about the PJ vs. McCannns - the fact remains Madeleine is gone and we don´t know what happened to her. Now that the police files are in the public domain we can see what they could see. All the same questions seem to remain. What is reported by the UK papers/media is very selective while it seems to me that the making of the McCanns arguidos when Kate refused to answer some fairly simple questions which meant by her own admission that she was not helping the investigation, was justified. On the other hand there is no proof that they were involved so now they are free.

If we look at the whole thing objectively, without taking sides, what conclusions can we reach? Anyone care to create a definitive list of facts? That would be helpful I think.

 

[colomom]

This picture is beyond sick. :crazy::crazy::crazy:

There is no evidence that Madeleine is dead....NONE!!!

She may still be alive and desperate for her parents to find her.......
.......Poor Madeleine that there are people who are prepared to use her to make up CRUEL and SICK JOKES!!!!!:crazy::crazy::crazy:

I do not want to upset anyone so I will remove the picture. I will replace it with these....

 

[colomom]

And April, you can holler NO EVIDENCE until you are blue in the face but the fact is, there are people who disagree with you.

Just because you have come to that conclusion does not make it fact.

The FACT is....you may very well be wrong.

Believe it, or not.

 

[Salem]

Sorry guys but too much bickering about the PJ vs. McCannns - the fact remains Madeleine is gone and we don´t know what happened to her. Now that the police files are in the public domain we can see what they could see. All the same questions seem to remain. What is reported by the UK papers/media is very selective while it seems to me that the making of the McCanns arguidos when Kate refused to answer some fairly simple questions which meant by her own admission that she was not helping the investigation, was justified. On the other hand there is no proof that they were involved so now they are free.

If we look at the whole thing objectively, without taking sides, what conclusions can we reach? Anyone care to create a definitive list of facts? That would be helpful I think.

The facts as we know them:

Maddie is missing.
McCanns' left 3 children, under the age of 3 alone night of May 3, 2007.
Reported that Maddie went missing approx. 10:00 p.m. May 3, 2007.
Maddie has not been found.
Cadaver dog hit on spots in the apartment, the McCanns' car, cuddle cat, Kate's clothes and Maddie's clothes.
No evidence was found at Murat's home.
Gerry talked to Jeremy Wilkins outside the apt between 9:00 p.m. and 9:30 p.m.
McCanns were having dinner/drinks with 7 friends at Tapas Bar approximately 150 feet from apt.
Apt can not be clearly seen from Tapas Bar.

I think that is the list of all things known for sure. Everything else appears to remain open for discussion.

Salem

 

[Gatinho]

I recall that when the McCanns were arguido they said that they could not discuss details of why they were sure that Madeleine had been abducted - and was still alive. Well now they can - so I would be interested in what it was that that made them so sure. Was it the position of the cuddlecat? As from pictures this seems to have been on her bed.

 

[Gatinho]

The facts as we know them:

Maddie is missing.
McCanns' left 3 children, under the age of 3 alone night of May 3, 2007.
Reported that Maddie went missing approx. 10:00 p.m. May 3, 2007.
Maddie has not been found.
Cadaver dog hit on spots in the apartment, the McCanns' car, cuddle cat, Kate's clothes and Maddie's clothes.
No evidence was found at Murat's home.
Gerry talked to Jeremy Wilkins outside the apt between 9:00 p.m. and 9:30 p.m.
McCanns were having dinner/drinks with 7 friends at Tapas Bar approximately 150 feet from apt.
Apt can not be clearly seen from Tapas Bar.

I think that is the list of all things known for sure. Everything else appears to remain open for discussion.

Salem

Cadaver dog and blood dog hit on same points (with the exception of car?)
DNA tests did not eliminate the possibility of blood being Madeleine´s.
JT´s testimony that she saw a person carrying a child was not corroborated by anyone.
Evidence for abduction is .... (?)

 

[Lola]

:waitasec: You come to that conclusion from an article printed in the Telegraph? Oh brother...


hummm, this is what I read : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...nn-police-didnt-reveal-sighting-of-Maddy.html

It's not just the Telegraph, it's every paper in the UK. Skynews and the BBC - blatant negligence with a strong dose of CYA on the part of the Portuguese. Praia de Luz was not equipped for a situation like this but refused any help til it was too late and then the cover up began...not of the crime, but of their incompetence. We see this over and over again with PD's.

Murat was the first target and they claimed they found Maddie's DNA at his home...LIE, then the unconscionable allegation about DNA in the hire car despite what scientists were telling them...the PD were the ones leaking all this to the press. It was a clear case of them trying to shore up the failing "investigation" in hopes that Maddie would turn up. The Keystone Kops are CSI compared to these clowns.

 

[Gatinho]

Cadaver dog and blood dog hit on same points (with the exception of car?)
DNA tests did not eliminate the possibility of blood being Madeleine´s.
JT´s testimony that she saw a person carrying a child was not corroborated by anyone.
Evidence for abduction is .... (?)

The McCanns -

· Refused to give access to their bank accounts
· Refused to answer 48 questions put to them by the police
· Refused to return to Portugal to do a reconstruction
· Complained when being called back to the police station to identify if a child on a video was Madeleine
· Deleted messages on mobile phones

 

[Gatinho]

It's not just the Telegraph, it's every paper in the UK. Skynews and the BBC - blatant negligence with a strong dose of CYA on the part of the Portuguese. Praia de Luz was not equipped for a situation like this but refused any help til it was too late and then the cover up began...not of the crime, but of their incompetence. We see this over and over again with PD's.

Murat was the first target and they claimed they found Maddie's DNA at his home...LIE, then the unconscionable allegation about DNA in the hire car despite what scientists were telling them...the PD were the ones leaking all this to the press. It was a clear case of them trying to shore up the failing "investigation" in hopes that Maddie would turn up. The Keystone Kops are CSI compared to these clowns.

PJ did not claim to find Madeleine´s DNA in Murat´s home. They thoroughly searched his home twice and found nothing. Murat was made arguido because some of T9 identified him as bundleman and also a journalist make accusations about him.

You are believing what you read in the biased press.

 

[colomom]

It's not just the Telegraph, it's every paper in the UK. Skynews and the BBC - blatant negligence with a strong dose of CYA on the part of the Portuguese. Praia de Luz was not equipped for a situation like this but refused any help til it was too late and then the cover up began...not of the crime, but of their incompetence. We see this over and over again with PD's.

Murat was the first target and they claimed they found Maddie's DNA at his home...LIE, then the unconscionable allegation about DNA in the hire car despite what scientists were telling them...the PD were the ones leaking all this to the press. It was a clear case of them trying to shore up the failing "investigation" in hopes that Maddie would turn up. The Keystone Kops are CSI compared to these clowns.

Sorry Lola but you have no idea what you are talking about.

The British police were involved and helping with this case from day 1. Not to mention the involvement of the British government.

The rumor of DNA found at Robert Murat's apartment did not come from the Portuguese. There is no reference to any such thing in the final report.

The DNA found (in the car and apartment) has been found to have 15 of 19 markers and could very well belong to Maddie.

Don't believe all the spin you read. You are being manipulated.

 

[colomom]

More facts....

There were blood stains found on the wall of the apartment.
Kate McCann left her twins alone in an apartment, where she was sure her oldest child had just been abducted.
The McCanns left their twins in the care of the Ocean Club creche the day after their daughter vanished from the same resort.

 

[Gatinho]

So is anyone going to respond to this list of facts with something, anything which suggests an abduction of a living child?

 

[april4sky]

And April, you can holler NO EVIDENCE until you are blue in the face but the fact is, there are people who disagree with you.

Just because you have come to that conclusion does not make it fact.

The FACT is....you may very well be wrong.

Believe it, or not.

Thank you for removing the picture Colomom. :clap:

As to the rest the above highlight equally applies to both of us.

 

[gord]

Sorry Lola but you have no idea what you are talking about.

The British police were involved and helping with this case from day 1. Not to mention the involvement of the British government.

The rumor of DNA found at Robert Murat's apartment did not come from the Portuguese. There is no reference to any such thing in the final report.

The DNA found (in the car and apartment) has been found to have 15 of 19 markers and could very well belong to Maddie.

Don't believe all the spin you read. You are being manipulated.

re the DNA - so we can avoid all spin and just keep to the facts

this is the direct quote from the final PJ report

But during a first scientific approach (pages 2617 and following), the
possibility of a match between the DNA profile of​

​

​

[FONT=Verdana,Bold]MADELEINE [/FONT]and some of
the collected residues (among which those that existed in the Renault Scenic
that had been rented by the [FONT=Verdana,Bold]McCANN [/FONT]couple were abundant) was raised; a
match which, as can be verified in the aforementioned final report from the
FSS, failed to be verified, after the execution of long and complex testing.​

Cannot be verified - I have seen so much spin on this subject that it is now meant to be 99.9% Madelines DNA

so unless we say the FSS are now lying and do not know what they were doing - then the DNA genie can finalyy be put back in the bottle

 

[gord]

More facts....

There were blood stains found on the wall of the apartment.
Kate McCann left her twins alone in an apartment, where she was sure her oldest child had just been abducted.
The McCanns left their twins in the care of the Ocean Club creche the day after their daughter vanished from the same resort.

has it been verified by the PJ what blood was found and whose it was ?

 

[april4sky]

It's not just the Telegraph, it's every paper in the UK. Skynews and the BBC - blatant negligence with a strong dose of CYA on the part of the Portuguese. Praia de Luz was not equipped for a situation like this but refused any help til it was too late and then the cover up began...not of the crime, but of their incompetence. We see this over and over again with PD's.

Murat was the first target and they claimed they found Maddie's DNA at his home...LIE, then the unconscionable allegation about DNA in the hire car despite what scientists were telling them...the PD were the ones leaking all this to the press. It was a clear case of them trying to shore up the failing "investigation" in hopes that Maddie would turn up.The Keystone Kops are CSI compared to these clowns.

Not sure about Murat Lola as I hadn't heard this before, but you are spot on...especially about the PJ cover up IMO. :clap: :clap:

 

[gord]

More facts....

There were blood stains found on the wall of the apartment.
Kate McCann left her twins alone in an apartment, where she was sure her oldest child had just been abducted.
The McCanns left their twins in the care of the Ocean Club creche the day after their daughter vanished from the same resort.

I have taken this again from the officiall PJ final report - which I assume you have seen .

This is a quote regarding the tests taken on all the cellular material that was indicated by the dogs

On the locations and the pieces that were marked and signaled by the blood
dog, forensics tests were performed, especially at a reputed British
laboratory (Forensic Science Service – check Appendixes I and VII – FSS
Final Report) but also, some of them at the reputed National Institute of
Forensics Medicine (check Appendix I), whose final results did not
corroborate the canine markings, which is to say, cellular material was
collected that was not identified as pertaining to anyone specific, and it was
not even possible to determine the quality of that material (v.g. whether it
could be blood or another type of bodily fluid).​

Now I take this to read that they didnt match anything to Madeline , in fact they couldnt even tell if it was blood or not .

I could be wrong - but it looks fairly cut and dried that they didnt find Maddy;s blood .


I do think that if the DNA was 99.9% certain and the blood was found then the Mccans would be going though a court case and not cleared .

 

[SleuthMom]

I recall that when the McCanns were arguido they said that they could not discuss details of why they were sure that Madeleine had been abducted - and was still alive. Well now they can - so I would be interested in what it was that that made them so sure. Was it the position of the cuddlecat? As from pictures this seems to have been on her bed.

Forget about it, Mitchell have already said they won't talk about anything about the report. First the excuse was secrecy laws, now what?