Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #38

[Mex]

RSBM

This is completely untrue. Portugal invested huge resources for months following the disappearance.

The UK also contributed specialist resources, including the case review in the summer.

Think you might need a cite to go some way to substantiating your opinion.

MM's case was archived in 2008.

Scotland Yard did not open their case into MM's disappearance until 2013.

During that period only the MMC private detectives had boots on the ground carrying out an active investigation. Who do you think was paying for that?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Nor portugal?

The allegation he is a career burglar, including of OC, is from the media - we have no idea how accurate or reliable that claim is.

There seems to be a few of his cronies with similar stories so I think it’s likely he burgled properties in Portugal. How prolific he was… well the media would have you think it was a daily occurrence.

What I find hard to understand is his lack of serious sex crimes after DM in 2005. We are led to believe by the media and profilers that he is a psychopath with violent sexual urges. In the 12 years between 2005 and 2017, he had little prison time and with a retrospective review of DNA in sex crimes, there is nothing to connect him to relevant crimes over this period.

 

[Davieson]

Think you might need a cite to go some way to substantiating your opinion.

MM's case was archived in 2008.

Scotland Yard did not open their case into MM's disappearance until 2013.

During that period only the MMC private detectives had boots on the ground carrying out an active investigation. Who do you think was paying for that?

At a guess, 'Window' Kennedy and a gullible pubic

 

[Okapi]

There seems to be a few of his cronies with similar stories so I think it’s likely he burgled properties in Portugal. How prolific he was… well the media would have you think it was a daily occurrence.

What I find hard to understand is his lack of serious sex crimes after DM in 2005. We are led to believe by the media and profilers that he is a psychopath with violent sexual urges. In the 12 years between 2005 and 2017, he had little prison time and with a retrospective review of DNA in sex crimes, there is nothing to connect him to relevant crimes over this period.

It’s interesting that when I traveled in certain countries all the advice was to leave valuables at reception safes, or to have secure locks on possessions and valuables kept in your room. In my experience the advice was never particularly emphasised in Europe, other than opportunistic street thefts. Much like no one thinks about catching rabies in Paris but considers vaccination elsewhere.

But in this case, if there was something of a culture of apathy around both reporting and investigating low level crimes, perhaps that would partly explain how CB and his cronies were able to operate unimpeded.

As for the sex crimes, it’s a good question. Was he lurking in playgrounds undetected by adult witnesses? Only speculation.

 

[RichardKimble]

Think you might need a cite to go some way to substantiating your opinion.

MM's case was archived in 2008.

Scotland Yard did not open their case into MM's disappearance until 2013.

During that period only the MMC private detectives had boots on the ground carrying out an active investigation. Who do you think was paying for that?

The British involvement in the initial investigation included up to 60 personal at one stage, well documented in the link I posted in the previous thread.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

At a guess, 'Window' Kennedy and a gullible pubic

‘Fit the best’

 

[Lyall0814]

One of the nation's finest local papers (the Birmingham Mail) is quoting HB as having said this last week:

"I called Scotland Yard back in 2008. At the Maddie hotline. I said I knew someone who might have something to do with it and gave them the name. But nothing happened there. Nothing! I was never called back."

Which makes me think who did he actually ring? British police or the number(s) run by Metodo or Oakley?

Madeleine McCann suspect 'boasted' he could outwit police

 

[mrjitty]

Think you might need a cite to go some way to substantiating your opinion.

MM's case was archived in 2008.

Scotland Yard did not open their case into MM's disappearance until 2013.

During that period only the MMC private detectives had boots on the ground carrying out an active investigation. Who do you think was paying for that?

Here is what you said

Initially the MM case was not resourced at all with only her parents raising money to pay for private detectives to continue to look for her. That lack of public resourcing continued from the archiving in 2008 until SY opened the MM case in 2013 during which time a lot of water passed under the bridge.

That is obviously not true.

From the day of the disappearance, until the archiving, Portugal made a record investment for a period of just over one year before it was archived due to lack of investigative leads.

It is completely unclear to me why PJ should have continued to spend money on a cold case

 

[Megnut]

If CB was looked at early, his alibi probably checked out. His alibi being the young girl who felt she was with him (most of) the whole time.

I think we'd all probably like to think we'd pick up some vibes if someone 2 feet from us had just come from abducting a child. If one word sums up CB (besides vile, deviant, viscous, taunting, etc, etc), it might be brazen. Not furtive, not fearful, bold.

Maybe they didn't take him seriously as a POI until his name came around a second time.

Just an uneducated opinion

 

[mrjitty]

The British involvement in the initial investigation included up to 60 personal at one stage, well documented in the link I posted in the previous thread.

Right - this was a vast investigation.

The idea it wasn't resourced is clearly incorrect.

I think OP is missing that point that missing person investigations, including ones which are suspected as murder/abduction routinely become cold cases, and often quite quickly.

How much exactly should be spent on these cases? Because it simply is not possible to resource them all for multiple years - nor a good investment of resources.

 

[Davieson]

Right - this was a vast investigation.

The idea it wasn't resourced is clearly incorrect.

I think OP is missing that point that missing person investigations, including ones which are suspected as murder/abduction routinely become cold cases, and often quite quickly.

How much exactly should be spent on these cases? Because it simply is not possible to resource them all for multiple years - nor a good investment of resources.

Had it not been funded by the Home Office, I think OG would have been officially declared a cold case years ago.

 

[RichardKimble]

Right - this was a vast investigation.

The idea it wasn't resourced is clearly incorrect.

I think OP is missing that point that missing person investigations, including ones which are suspected as murder/abduction routinely become cold cases, and often quite quickly.

How much exactly should be spent on these cases? Because it simply is not possible to resource them all for multiple years - nor a good investment of resources.

I'll post it again in case it was ignored or not seen.

https://library.college.police.uk/docs/npia/Strategic-debrief-operation-task-2009.pdf

 

[Mex]

The British involvement in the initial investigation included up to 60 personal at one stage, well documented in the link I posted in the previous thread.

Thank you Richard, I remember your link well.
Indeed British police were active and on the ground throughout the investigation in 2007. A team from Ceop - the child exploitation and online protection agency were sent out and were active.
Snip
Appeal for holiday snaps to help track Madeleine's abductor
· Specialist British officers join hunt as inquiry wanes
· Photos to be cross-checked with paedophile database
Tue 22 May 2007 23.56 BST
Appeal for holiday snaps to help track Madeleine's abductor

On occasion I think the British police presence was less than welcome, but that is a story for another day and another thread.

 

[Mex]

Here is what you said



That is obviously not true.

From the day of the disappearance, until the archiving, Portugal made a record investment for a period of just over one year before it was archived due to lack of investigative leads.

It is completely unclear to me why PJ should have continued to spend money on a cold case

This is the problem with taking a quote out of context MrJ and misconstruing what was said in response to a statement within a conversation.

Please take time to go slightly further back to your initial statement where you will find no one was discussing the police liaison and assistance given to the Portuguese in the terms of advice and expertise - for example I believe access to Holmes was discussed: some of which was unwelcome and some of which was misunderstood.

 

[Mex]

Had it not been funded by the Home Office, I think OG would have been officially declared a cold case years ago.

I don't think that technically a case can be considered cold as long as current information of value to the inquiry continues to be received.

I would say that is an active investigation. Particularly if there is a prime suspect waiting in the wings.

 

[Lyall0814]

I don't think that technically a case can be considered cold as long as current information of value to the inquiry continues to be received.

I would say that is an active investigation. Particularly if there is a prime suspect waiting in the wings.

Is he still though? OG seem to have just one page left online, and their 2020 appeal is no longer there. Very strange imo

 

[Davieson]

Is he still though? OG seem to have just one page left online, and their 2020 appeal is no longer there. Very strange imo

I honestly don't think they've done anything since 2017, other than convince the Home Office that they need ongoing funding.

 

[Lyall0814]

I honestly don't think they've done anything since 2017, other than convince the Home Office that they need ongoing funding.

You're a harsh cynic. I know what you mean though, they can't have been doing much. Whatever they did they did discreetly. Then they saw what happened after the Germans made their public appeal. Imo I doubt they were impressed.

 

[RichardKimble]

I honestly don't think they've done anything since 2017, other than convince the Home Office that they need ongoing funding.

A question and response to a FOI request.
The request is from March of this year.


3For each year since Operation Grange started, please provide the number of visits to Portugal by officers and staff related to it. Specify how many of these visits lasted five days or more.
MPS Response
There have been a total of 49 trips to Portugal with 4 trips lasting five days or more.
2011 – 3 trips
2012 – 6
2013 – 12
2014 – 9
2015 – 7
2016 – 1
2017 – 3
2018 – 4
2019 – 3
2020 – 1

 

[Mex]

A question and response to a FOI request.
The request is from March of this year.


3For each year since Operation Grange started, please provide the number of visits to Portugal by officers and staff related to it. Specify how many of these visits lasted five days or more.
MPS Response
There have been a total of 49 trips to Portugal with 4 trips lasting five days or more.
2011 – 3 trips
2012 – 6
2013 – 12
2014 – 9
2015 – 7
2016 – 1
2017 – 3
2018 – 4
2019 – 3
2020 – 1

Business meetings are normally conducted on line in this day and age.

As an aside who on earth requires to ask for FOI on this subject? Seriously ~ is it for a future pub quiz? I can't think what else.