Members' Theories

[calicocat]

Remember the psychic Dorothy Allison and her sketch of the murderer? I always thought it resembled John. Your theory is the best I've heard yet Sandraladeda. I just never understood how John grieved so terribly over his daughter Beth's death, and yet he showed little or no emotion over JonBenet's, and she was "murdered and sexually abused by an intruder."



[URL="http://sp1.mm-a3.yimg.com/image/2688259064"]

Check out the long, straight nose, the receding hairline, the arched eyebrows, the thin lips.

 

[Albert18]

It could also be Hitler and Peter Cushing.

Maybe the psychic watched old movies and the History channel.

 

[BOESP]

Maybe the psychic subconsciously processed all the publicly known data about the case and came up with a drawing that resembled, to my eye, John Ramsey. :innocent:

 

[BOESP]

... I have almost always believed in PR’s guilt in the death of JBR, and that JR was only involved in the cover up. Recently, I began to consider, what if JR is the killer, and PR merely an accomplice in the cover up? I came up with a theory featuring JR as killer. ....That is the theory. Your feedback is most welcome.

Sandra, I must admit that I sometimes wonder if John Ramsey could have been the killer. I appreciate the time and effort you put into forming your theory and it is a well thought out step-by-step hypothesis. I only have two major things that I'd question.

I doubt he'd use Burke as an excuse but since he had extra-marital affairs and he and Patsy both are known to have used other people in a malicious way when it came to John trying to cover his infidelities, you could be right. Still, I can't see him using his child in that manner.

The main thing is your theory, unless I misread it, doesn't account for the fibers from Patsy's clothing being found under the tape on JonBenet's mouth, in the garotte and inside the blanket (if I remember correctly). Since Patsy claimed to have no contact with the paint tote are go to the basement while dressed in the clothing that was consistent with the found fibers, it suggests she had contact with JonBenet. If John was mainly involved in the staging, I can't see Patsy's fibers being found in so many places on JonBenet.

 

[sandraladeda]

Sandra, I must admit that I sometimes wonder if John Ramsey could have been the killer. I appreciate the time and effort you put into forming your theory and it is a well thought out step-by-step hypothesis. I only have two major things that I'd question.

I doubt he'd use Burke as an excuse but since he had extra-marital affairs and he and Patsy both are known to have used other people in a malicious way when it came to John trying to cover his infidelities, you could be right. Still, I can't see him using his child in that manner.

The main thing is your theory, unless I misread it, doesn't account for the fibers from Patsy's clothing being found under the tape on JonBenet's mouth, in the garotte and inside the blanket (if I remember correctly). Since Patsy claimed to have no contact with the paint tote are go to the basement while dressed in the clothing that was consistent with the found fibers, it suggests she had contact with JonBenet. If John was mainly involved in the staging, I can't see Patsy's fibers being found in so many places on JonBenet.

Thanks for your response.

Re: using BR as an excuse - I think JR had very little choice, in the moment. What were his options? He has just grievously hurt/killed his daughter under suspicious circumstances he could not explain away. Getting the body out of the house was too risky - what if PR noticed him gone? What if a neighbor spotted him leaving? BR had already injured JBR with a golf club in an earlier accident. It was conceivable that such an accident could have happened again.

Re: PR's fibers - I believe PR was part of the staging of the alleged kidnapping plot. I believe that after JBR was dead, JR woke PR, and involved her in the staging, under the belief that BR had accidentally harmed JBR and must be protected. Therefore, her fibers would be under the tape on JBR's mouth, entwined in the cord, etc.

I am not married to this theory, it just takes me a few steps farther than the "Potty rage" theory has previously. I feel that, as WS amateur sleuths, we have taken these discussions as far as they can go on the "PR didit" theory. I find it interesting to view the different threads through this new lens, so to speak. It also means that the real killer is still alive and the possibility of justice still exists.

 

[BOESP]

Thanks for your response.

Re: using BR as an excuse - I think JR had very little choice, in the moment. What were his options? He has just grievously hurt/killed his daughter under suspicious circumstances he could not explain away. Getting the body out of the house was too risky - what if PR noticed him gone? What if a neighbor spotted him leaving? BR had already injured JBR with a golf club in an earlier accident. It was conceivable that such an accident could have happened again.

Re: PR's fibers - I believe PR was part of the staging of the alleged kidnapping plot. I believe that after JBR was dead, JR woke PR, and involved her in the staging, under the belief that BR had accidentally harmed JBR and must be protected. Therefore, her fibers would be under the tape on JBR's mouth, entwined in the cord, etc.

I am not married to this theory, it just takes me a few steps farther than the "Potty rage" theory has previously. I feel that, as WS amateur sleuths, we have taken these discussions as far as they can go on the "PR didit" theory. I find it interesting to view the different threads through this new lens, so to speak. It also means that the real killer is still alive and the possibility of justice still exists.

I see where you are coming from on this. I would also agree the possibility for justice still exists and that is where I still sit on the fence. I have no doubt, not even a reasonable doubt, that one or both adult Ramseys know more about what happened than they have told publicly. However, I don't know that I could sit on a jury and come to a "yea" vote about who did what. I'd speculate that any such trial would result in a hung jury. I think that's why the case hasn't been prosecuted or else the total body of evidence is overwhelmingly against Patsy. In that case, I imagine Boulder would rather not spend the money to prosecute a dead person.

Unfortunately, I don't think prosecution will come from Boulder unless some super lawyer takes it upon herself/himself to bring charges. Of course, there would have to be a cooperative judge too. I don't know how the Colorado state system works but a non-cooperative DA's office can sometimes be circumvented where I live by directly approaching a judge for warrants and other services. I seriously doubt, however, Boulder is much interested in a ten-year-old case. If Patsy did it, I expect Colorado would have to first prove it beyond reasonable doubt before John could be prosecuted as an accessory.

I suppose the only realistic hope for prosecution would be a "John Did It" theory. Based on public knowledge, I just don't think the evidence is there to prove that. What bothers me is this type case, by not being prosecuted, potentially emboldens other people of power and wealth who might also abuse, mis-use, and otherwise do harm to their child. The case has not set a good precedent. It gives a great blueprint on how to circumvent the law. I find that a miscarriage of justice.

 

[coloradokares]

I see where you are coming from on this. I would also agree the possibility for justice still exists and that is where I still sit on the fence. I have no doubt, not even a reasonable doubt, that one or both adult Ramseys know more about what happened than they have told publicly. However, I don't know that I could sit on a jury and come to a "yea" vote about who did what. I'd speculate that any such trial would result in a hung jury. I think that's why the case hasn't been prosecuted or else the total body of evidence is overwhelmingly against Patsy. In that case, I imagine Boulder would rather not spend the money to prosecute a dead person.

Unfortunately, I don't think prosecution will come from Boulder unless some super lawyer takes it upon herself/himself to bring charges. Of course, there would have to be a cooperative judge too. I don't know how the Colorado state system works but a non-cooperative DA's office can sometimes be circumvented where I live by directly approaching a judge for warrants and other services. I seriously doubt, however, Boulder is much interested in a ten-year-old case. If Patsy did it, I expect Colorado would have to first prove it beyond reasonable doubt before John could be prosecuted as an accessory.

I suppose the only realistic hope for prosecution would be a "John Did It" theory. Based on public knowledge, I just don't think the evidence is there to prove that. What bothers me is this type case, by not being prosecuted, potentially emboldens other people of power and wealth who might also abuse, mis-use, and otherwise do harm to their child. The case has not set a good precedent. It gives a great blueprint on how to circumvent the law. I find that a miscarriage of justice.

Like the Midyettes However this time there was such an out cry of NOT AGAIN they indicted the Midyettes.

 

[BOESP]

Like the Midyettes However this time there was such an out cry of NOT AGAIN they indicted the Midyettes.

You know what, CK, if there hadn't been the long toil of a few to keep JonBenet's case in the public eye from the public's viewpoint, there's a good chance the Midyettes would have slipped through the DA's office too. If nothing else, maybe that can be JonBenet's legacy -- don't let happen to another child what happened to me.

 

[Tril]

Hi, all. I thought my first post might as well be this.

A short version of my theory:

I think JonBenet and Burke were engaged in some kind of child sexual exploration/choking game, which included the ligature device being placed around JonBenet's neck.

When Burke inserted the other part of the broken art brush into JonBenet's vagina as she lay suppine on the basement floor, she may have screamed. She began to stand up. Afraid she'd tell on him - or to silence her screaming if she did indeed scream - he panicked and grabbed the cord and yanked her back down.

Still pulling hard on the cord, he then, in a knee-jerk reaction, quickly grabbed the Maglite (or some other object) with one hand and struck her on the head with it. Then he gave the cord a second hard yank, and kept pulling.


When John and Patsy became aware of what happened, the staging began. I don't think Burke was involved in the staging.

~~

At the end of the 911 call, Patsy says, "Help me, Jesus! Help me, Jesus!" Then a voice believed to have been Burke's (Who else's could it have been? ) asks, "Please, what do I do?" John is then heard to say in an angry voice, "We're not speaking to you!" Patsy again says, "Help me, Jesus! Help me, Jesus!" and Burke is heard to ask, "Well, what did you find?"

With regards to Burke's last question, it seems obvious to me that because Burke wasn't in on the staging, he wondered what in the world his mom was talking about when she told the 911 operator about finding a note. He'd probably already asked, "What did you find?" and was ignored; hence the "Well" and the emphasis on "did" the second time he asked the question.

The fact that John spoke to Burke in an angry-sounding voice, when one would think he'd be kind to him since he'd just lost his sister, suggests to me that John was angry with him for taking JonBenet's life, even though he believed Burke's account of what happened and realized that her death was unintentional.

My opinion only, and I consider this specific theory only possible.

 

[WendyElizabeth]

I have always been willing to believe the Ramseys were not involved mainly, because those disgusting sick shows and contests Patsy had JonBenet perform in prejudiced me (and maybe others) so heavily against the Ramseys.

Despite the fact that it's really wrong to have your little girl involved in those pagaents, they are not illegal nor do they indicate a predisposition toward murder.

So I tried very hard not to implicate the Ramseys.

But the one thing I could never get around was the letter. They can hire analysts for the next ten years. It won't matter. It's Patsy's handwriting. If you've ever seen the two next to each other, it's obvious.

So then I created this little theory that Patsy goes downstairs early in the morning, finds Jon Benet's body, thinks her son (or maybe husband) did it, so she subsequently writes the letter.

I understand that this still does not answer the question of who killed Jon Benet. I'm simply giving a motive about why Patsy wrote that bogus letter.

 

[JMO8778]

Only thing I would say here is that it doesn't account for the fiber evidence,(and, that's just for starters).

 

[BBB167893]

But the one thing I could never get around was the letter. They can hire analysts for the next ten years. It won't matter. It's Patsy's handwriting. If you've ever seen the two next to each other, it's obvious.

It's not me you have to convince of that, WendyElizabeth.

 

[cami]

I've read everything published about the JB Ramsey case. Andrew Hodges, a psychiatrist and expert in psycho linguistics has written a book called a Mother Gone Bad. Basically the theory is that our subconsious minds always tell the truth, and the truth in our written and verbal communications are in code. This man has had 25 years of experience in this field and has written a very convincing book. Dr. Hodges "decodes" the ransom note with the conclusion that Patsy Ramsey wrote the note and killed her daughter. John was involved too, because Patsy caught him molesting JB. Dr. Hodges also decodes other written communications of both Patsy and John from 1995 thru 1997. It is a fascinating book and one I recommend to fellow Websleuths. I guess you can tell that Hodges' theory has become my own.

That book was fascinating. I've been trying to find it but alas it's out of print. I believe in Dr. Hodges theory too. The only reason, I believe, that paint brush was used on JB was to hide previous sexual abuse but I believe it was John not Burke.

 

[Ames]

http://www.jonbenetramsey.net/

How come this website is allowed? It's really disrespectful.

I couldn't get the link to work. But, I have seen some pretty awful stuff, while doing research on this case. There are some kiddie *advertiser censored* websites that advertise JB's nude (from the waist up) body...(on the autopsy table). NOW...I don't think that you can get much sicker than that.

 

[Meyahna]

Ok, here is my thought however I haven't read much about this story. Not particularly interested in it much too gossipy for me. Well first I don't think at all the family is involved, I did a kind of statement analysis of the kidnapping ransom who is the most interesting clue:

"Mr. Ramsey.Listen carefully!
Anger/frustration, had heard about the "businessman of the year award?" went to the party and was pissed off at the success of John Ramsey
We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction.
Bull**** I think too a foreign person doesn't say foreign talking about themselves and true they would give their name
We xx respect your business
This has to do with business, person knew John Ramsey's job, no kidnapping note normally mentions job, just money Possible rival in computing stuff? Or business of same level
but not the country that it serves.
Rare to hear an American say so unless it is displaced at a smaller level... but not Boulder
At this time we have your daughter in our posession.
False spelling mistake
She is safe and unharmed and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter.
That and length of letter would indicate it was written before the kidnapping, murder of JonBenet on scene wasn't planned
You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will bein $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills.
Thought it had to do with business and indeed read Mr. Ramsey had won that bonus... Envy, business competition, you got it but now it's me who'll have it
Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank. Weird but no comment
When you get home you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you between 8 and 10 am tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early toarrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence a earlier delivery pickup of your daughter. Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her remainsfor proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them.
Knows Ramsey, doesn’t like him, jealousy again, no reason for anyone not knowing him to say such a thing, jealousy and bitter feelings explain letter's length, it was more a way to vent than a real kidnapping note, probably heard about Ramsey's nomination as "business man of the year" maybe at the party they had
Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as Police, F.B.I.,etc., will result in your daughter being beheaded. If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, shedies. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies.You will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found, shedies. You can try to deceive us but be warned that we are familiarwith Law enforcement countermeasures and tactics. You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to out smart us.
Why 99% and not 100%? Maybe didn't want to be so negative, death not planned
Follow our instructions and you stand a 100% chance of getting her back. You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain John.
John you're an idiot and I'm smarter than you, personal attack to John Ramsey, probably totally stranger to Patsy, has to do with Ramsey's business success, kidnapper not really aware of his paedophile's penchants, pulsion why it happened in the house if rape was planned, would have taken his time, house not best place to be quiet when raping You are not the only fat cat around
Less rich than Ramsey, envies other rich people
so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don'tunderestimate us John. Use that good southern common sense of yours. Knows Ramsey is from the South still no stranger to the family would know that, maybe witnessed someone saying:
"Wow this John Ramsey is good in business, he's got a good southern common sense..."
It is up to you now John!Victory!
You got the award but now I'm the winner
S.B.T.C."

(i) Who the perp was: a colleague/acquaintance of John Ramsey or someone who would have wanted to be nominated business man of the year
(ii) What the motive was: jealousy/rage
(iii) How the perp gained entry and how he left: dk, the window whose glass was broken, the one that is usually mentionned
(iv) What caused the head blow: dk
(v) How long the perp was in the house: less than 1 hour, I thought though maybe he was around for some time and the pineapple was because he was hungry or thirsty and he fed JonBenet meanwhile to make her shut up
(vi) Has the perp offended before (or since) no
(vii) What pieces of evidence are for real and what are red herrings
(viii) others? I'm rather surprised by the difference between the letter tone and the murder, probably the letter was written when the man was in a totally different mood, maybe his rage grew between the time he wrote it and the time he abucted JonBenet.

 

[Meyahna]

I meant to remove the paedophile penchants stuff, but hadn't found it back, it seems she might have not been raped, if it was with an object, the man could not necessarily be a paedophile, not sure... could have hit at random or purposedely but more by vice than paedophilia. And also I think he could have some big business in Boulder and a possible contestant for the business of the year at that time or has a small one but would have loved to be at Ramsey's place. Not sure he went to the party but to know about the bonus he had to be some kind of acquaintance.

I dk why everybody's thinking the family has sthg to do with it, I don't read that at all in the letter, John Ramsey wouldn't tell himself to grow a brain and I don't think his own wife would be so vulgar. And if they had a party for his success she probably agreed with him that he was great and worth that party.

 

[Meyahna]

I couldn't get the link to work. But, I have seen some pretty awful stuff, while doing research on this case. There are some kiddie *advertiser censored* websites that advertise JB's nude (from the waist up) body...(on the autopsy table). NOW...I don't think that you can get much sicker than that.

Ok yes, that is not as yurcky compared to *advertiser censored*. People really have no respect. Here is a screen shot of that site's front page.

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/4/4/21/f_websitem_b76ec64.jpg

 

[Ames]

Ok yes, that is not as yurcky compared to *advertiser censored*. People really have no respect. Here is a screen shot of that site's front page.

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/4/4/21/f_websitem_b76ec64.jpg

Ahhhh, yes...I have seen that site before, a long time ago...very, VERY disturbing indeed!!! If I were John Ramsey...I would sue.

 

[DeeDee249]

I meant to remove the paedophile penchants stuff, but hadn't found it back, it seems she might have not been raped, if it was with an object, the man could not necessarily be a paedophile, not sure... could have hit at random or purposedely but more by vice than paedophilia. And also I think he could have some big business in Boulder and a possible contestant for the business of the year at that time or has a small one but would have loved to be at Ramsey's place. Not sure he went to the party but to know about the bonus he had to be some kind of acquaintance.

I dk why everybody's thinking the family has sthg to do with it, I don't read that at all in the letter, John Ramsey wouldn't tell himself to grow a brain and I don't think his own wife would be so vulgar. And if they had a party for his success she probably agreed with him that he was great and worth that party.

By your own admission you haven't read much about this case. If you had, you'd understand how and why many people think the parents are involved in her murder. It isn't based just on the ransom note, and the fact that the ransom note was almost certainly written by her mother says a lot about their involvement. It isn't what the ransom note says, but rather the fact that one if the parents wrote the note, thereby indicating that it wasn't a real kidnapping at all. There are several books on the case you could start with, and if pressed for time, rent the DVD of "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town" ; it isn't the best way to learn, but in 2 hours you'll have a pretty good idea of the case. There is also a thread right here discussing several of the books on the case.

 

[Ames]

By your own admission you haven't read much about this case. If you had, you'd understand how and why many people think the parents are involved in her murder. It isn't based just on the ransom note, and the fact that the ransom note was almost certainly written by her mother says a lot about their involvement. It isn't what the ransom note says, but rather the fact that one if the parents wrote the note, thereby indicating that it wasn't a real kidnapping at all. There are several books on the case you could start with, and if pressed for time, rent the DVD of "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town" ; it isn't the best way to learn, but in 2 hours you'll have a pretty good idea of the case.

Ditto!!