MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #2

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MoeInVA said:
I do not think highly of the Crumbleys (see my past posts in this thread), and I may be gullible, but I do kind of believe that the “fugitives on the run” thing may have been a miscommunication. They could have been told their lawyers were taking care of the appoint for turning themselves in and did not know about this 4pm arraignment (because their phones were off? Because they thought all calls would go to their lawyers?). I believe the lawyers assumed that they would be informed. I believe they weren’t. Now parts are still sketchy… going out of contact was sketchy if true. But I’d be open minded to hear more.

I mean, were the Crumbleys reached about being required to show up at 4pm?

What time was the ATM retrieval and what time did notice to appear go through? Did they go to the bank in Rochester Hills to get the money for the retainer, so that the lawyers could put in NTA? And then go back to their hide out awaiting word on this appointment to turn themselves in? I’m no legal expert, welcome other thoughts.
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MOO They were planning a boat trip over the river.
Maybe with help.

Faced with a son writing:
"The thoughts won't stop. Help me."
They also ran away.
 
klhfromtroymi said:
My two children attend Oxford High School and were barricaded in classrooms on Tuesday. Thankfully, they were physically unharmed and did not hear the shots nor see any of the resulting victims, etc. We are all still in shock and mourning the loss of those four precious lives. Our close-knit community has been rocked to its core.

My son actually knows the student that perpetrated the deer head incident, which so surprised and upset my son at the time it occurred. Tuesday’s shooter was NOT involved in that at all.

However, as the weeks have progressed this semester both of my kids had commented that there was just a very negative vibe at the school, with several odd incidents.

The two Thursday evenings prior to Thanksgiving they told us that there were rumors circulating about a shooting that would begin the next day at 12:50pm (the start of passing time before 5th hour). My husband and I said “what shooter would warn the school so specifically if maximum harm is the intention,” and sent them off to school. Personally, I think the shooter began at 12:50 because that would have been the first time after his parents refused to bring him home that all lunches would be finished and the hallways most crowded. I do not think the earlier threats were related to the shooter. However, only time will tell.

The vigil held here Friday night was terrifying. It was the first time my son left the house and to have hundreds of people screaming and running toward us - knowing the shooter’s parents were still at large and the Waukesha tragedy still fresh - left my kids traumatized once again. There were no speakers for the majority of us so we could not hear the pleas for calm. When we saw that mass of humanity coming at us the fear of being trampled was inescapable. These OHS students who three days earlier hunkered down in classrooms had that same instinct as the panic erupted. These kids, including my daughter, were crying so hard. It was heartbreaking! Thank goodness nobody was seriously injured but having lived through the pressing of people against us and into walls of buildings, seeing young children on the ground being protected by their moms, hearing people calling out for their children/friends, and seeing the empty shoes littering the street, it’s as if the nightmare keeps going on.
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I am so so sorry for everything you and your children have been through, I can't even begin to imagine what that fear is like. This should have never happened!
 
klhfromtroymi said:
My two children attend Oxford High School and were barricaded in classrooms on Tuesday. Thankfully, they were physically unharmed and did not hear the shots nor see any of the resulting victims, etc. We are all still in shock and mourning the loss of those four precious lives. Our close-knit community has been rocked to its core.

My son actually knows the student that perpetrated the deer head incident, which so surprised and upset my son at the time it occurred. Tuesday’s shooter was NOT involved in that at all.

However, as the weeks have progressed this semester both of my kids had commented that there was just a very negative vibe at the school, with several odd incidents.

The two Thursday evenings prior to Thanksgiving they told us that there were rumors circulating about a shooting that would begin the next day at 12:50pm (the start of passing time before 5th hour). My husband and I said “what shooter would warn the school so specifically if maximum harm is the intention,” and sent them off to school. Personally, I think the shooter began at 12:50 because that would have been the first time after his parents refused to bring him home that all lunches would be finished and the hallways most crowded. I do not think the earlier threats were related to the shooter. However, only time will tell.

The vigil held here Friday night was terrifying. It was the first time my son left the house and to have hundreds of people screaming and running toward us - knowing the shooter’s parents were still at large and the Waukesha tragedy still fresh - left my kids traumatized once again. There were no speakers for the majority of us so we could not hear the pleas for calm. When we saw that mass of humanity coming at us the fear of being trampled was inescapable. These OHS students who three days earlier hunkered down in classrooms had that same instinct as the panic erupted. These kids, including my daughter, were crying so hard. It was heartbreaking! Thank goodness nobody was seriously injured but having lived through the pressing of people against us and into walls of buildings, seeing young children on the ground being protected by their moms, hearing people calling out for their children/friends, and seeing the empty shoes littering the street, it’s as if the nightmare keeps going on.
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I'm so sorry for your family, klh.
 
How old are the parents? Seem like they are immature about raising their son. Do they have much education? Trouble holding jobs? Don’t do responsible things like child support or help for their own don? EC was like a buddy not a son as far as parenting?
 
x_files said:
From a hunting trip with his father or family/friends. Wouldn't be that difficult.
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November 15-30 is firearm deer hunting season in Michigan. The deer head incident on school property fits into this time frame. We see deer frequently in Oakland County - more so in rural parts of the county. We saw a fawn on our front lawn just last week. Haven't seen much roadkill lately in my town, but that would be another way for a teen to get a deer head.
 
kaen said:
It would be (should be) highly unusual for this kind of scenario to be handled by one person --counselor, principal, social worker or psychologist. Post Columbine and other mass shootings, schools have protocols and teams that handle these incidents. I would imagine that the teacher who saw the drawings (and photographed them) reported to the asst. principal or principal as that is the usual pattern. In most districts counselors can not make the decision to suspend but rather are part of a team. This is my profession. I have seen major changes in the wake of mass shootings. This is most closely aligned with the Stoneman Douglas shooting where we have concerning behaviors and questionable follow-up. This is not just a missed opportunity but may be negligent criminally --- just as many of us get frustrated with the lack of agency accountability in child abuse cases.

At the very least, any school resource officers or the local police liaison should have been notified. I am sure that the liaison would have pushed for questions on potential weapons. While I recognize that many parts of the US have areas with a large number of people with gun ownership, the idea that there may not have been questions about whether this kid had access or possession of a weapon is unconscionable to say the least.

I don't see how anyone involved in this incident on the school's behalf could ever work with the school community again even if there are no criminal charges. I would never let my child be guarded/protected/counseled by people who were responsible for letting this student back among the others in the community. JMHO
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Thanks for this.

My question is, why are we talking suspension for the actions before the shooter brandished the gun?

Suspension is a disciplinary action. What was the offense? How could they suspend?

I especially want to pick your brain, given that this is your profession.

IMO, the school tried to get around the “he-didn’t-do-anything” problem by trying to get the parents to self suspend, especially after learning the superintendent referenced the shooters (clean) disciplinary record. IMO, the school did not properly respond to what appeared to be a mental health emergency, and suspension is- off topic.
 
passionflower said:
How old are the parents? Seem like they are immature about raising their son. Keeping jobs? Responsibility? Do they have much education?
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Dramatic Day Reveals Details About the Parents of a School Shooting Suspwoman

Ex of school 'shooter's' dad says he's 'piece of s**t' and mom is 'monster'

Ms. Crumbley, 43, grew up in Clarkston, a Detroit suburb about 20 minutes from Oxford, her lawyer said. Her lawyer added that Ms. Crumbley was recently working as a marketing director. An undated profile, recently removed, on the website of a Michigan real estate company had listed her as an employee.

Ms. Crumbley was charged with driving under the influence years ago, according to her lawyer, and court records show a few other misdemeanor charges.

Mr. Crumbley, 45, also had a conviction for a D.U.I., but no more serious charges, his lawyer said.

In his Facebook profile, which has since been deleted, Mr. Crumbley listed a job history at a handful of small software and technology companies. Most recently, from February to July, he worked as an independent contractor for a San Francisco-based technology company called Monarch, according to the firm.

“He was terminated for reasons unrelated to this incident,” said Chase Gonzales, the company’s chief executive, who declined to offer additional details.

The couple once lived in Florida but returned to Michigan several years ago, their lawyers said. They bought their home near downtown Oxford in 2015.

A former girlfriend of Mr. Crumbley’s, Michelle Cobb, 39, struggled on Saturday to reconcile the current news with the man she said she once fell in love with. Ms. Cobb, who has a son, Elijah, 18, with Mr. Crumbley, spoke about their relationship in an interview outside her home in Jacksonville, Fla.

He also has a daughter with another woman.
 
mommylicious said:
But what should they have done? A student with no prior concerns, who had not made a direct threat against anyone, hadn't assaulted anyone. If they had involved the police and/or sent him home anyhow, they could be facing action from the parents. Students have a right to an education. I imagine the school was more concerned about sending him home to an empty house and him harming himself. The first thought is not going to be that he might shoot up a school. Kids are struggling right now. The first thought is going to be concern for his own mental well-being and safety.

ETA: we have to look at what the school knew at the time, not what we know now
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Apparently there were concerns and kids stayed home that day. We will 100% find out this kid had other problems with kids at the school IMO.
 
Boxer said:
MOO it's too much calculation to ask school personnel to negotiate that many factors.
Inapproriate behavior go home, but parents won't take you. Now a minor is in your custody that needs to go off campus.

Parents gave him a gun for Christmas, now they are called in because he is at school 4 days later looking up ammo and drawing terrorizing dead by gun pictures.

Far far away from Algebra 3.
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Somebody (before me- I skimmed, posted, then read more carefully) had a source for my opinion. It is the school’s responsibility just as much as algebra 3.

IMO, unless I find the source in the edit window.
 
I am not a school counselor... an oncology nurse, however, I check almost everyone's social media that I come across. My kids think I am weird, however I learn quite a bit about their friends, their parents, coaches, teachers, doctors, you name it I find it... if I was the counselor handling EC that day, or the teacher that found the drawing, you best believe I'd be checking out his social media accounts ASAP!! If they had done that they would have seen his intentions that fateful day
 
LMDlong said:
News articles have stated the school was not aware of the new gun purchased Black Friday . But didn’t EC say that he and his family shoot together? Another red flag to go with the search for ammo and the drawing .
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So the school officials were aware that EC had access to firearms in his family home, definitely another red flag the day they discovered the drawings. I agree with Bouchard that the SRO and/or LE should have been contacted to handle the situation.
 
Artist comes forward about Crumbleys' whereabouts after their capture, lawyer says

... [Andrzej] Sikora appears to know at least one of the Crumbleys. The artist has been doing a mural of Lyle “Red” Knapp, whose relatives operate Red Knapp’s American Grill in Oxford, as part of a renovation of the place, according to a Nov. 18 story in the Oxford Leader.The cutline for the photo in the story has been erased. But a photo of Sikora for the story was taken by a Jehn Crumbley, according to an archived version of the story. Jehn is Jennifer Crumbley’s nickname. ... Sikora’s name and phone number were listed outside the basement room where they were apprehended. ...
 
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Ruminations said:
Somebody (before me- I skimmed, posted, then read more carefully) had a source for my opinion. It is the school’s responsibility just as much as algebra 3.

IMO, unless I find the source in the edit window.
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To eject Ethan, yes. But if the parents refuse, then they have to arrange for him to go somewhere. School really can't release students to anyone but the parents.
Parents usually take kids when the school calls them in.
MOO special needs kid can be hard, so MOO they refused because they wanted to get back to work.
 
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Sundog said:
So the school officials were aware that EC had access to firearms in his family home, definitely another red flag the day they discovered the drawings. I agree with Bouchard that the SRO and/or LE should have been contacted to handle the situation.
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A huge percentage of the MI pop shoots AFAIK.
MOO This is different, parents arming their morbid and troubled son.
 
Sundog said:
Their attorney said that they had to get away from their home because of threats against them. My understanding is that the art studio that their friend allowed them to stay in was 44 miles from their home.
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One of the local media outlets (IIRC, it was WWJ radio in the car) reported that the couple had originally gone to a motel in Rochester Hills and that their other vehicle was located in the parking lot there. Obviously, the Crumleys weren't at the motel because they had headed to downtown Detroit to hide in a warehouse. Seems like they thought that they could outsmart authorities :rolleyes:
 
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