MI MI - JOHN NORMAN COLLINS Co-Ed Murders 1967-69, Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti

[Richard]

That theory sounds like hearsay...
...Also, with all of this lying going on, and evidence to the contrary that implicates Thoresen, who would believe whatever the powers that be says about DNA? They could just be lying, too.

Whether or not Collins was lying (and one way or the other he was), his handwritten and signed statements are certainly NOT hearsay. What he says could be used in any trial or appeal hearing. It is first hand, not something that he "heard" from another. He clearly states, "this is what happened".

What is significant about his statements (aside from the included tall tales regarding Arnold Davis) is that he ADMITS having known/met both Karen Sue Beineman and Alice Elizabeth Kalom just prior to their murders. He ADMITS having taken both for motorcycle rides. And he ADMITS to sexual acts which put his DNA on/in their bodies.

Of course, he tries to mitigate that by saying that it was all consensual and innocent, and that he never killed them - it was (according to Collins) Arnold Davis who stepped in at the last minute and committed BOTH murders on separate occasions.

Yeah, that's the ticket - it was Davis - and poor Collins has innocently taken the rap for it all these years, because of his allegiance to his dear buddy Davis, and his dedication to protecting this "serial killer".

Furthermore, note that Collins ADMITS to having assisted Davis with the cleaning up of the Leik basement and to helping him dump Karen's body in the ravine. In effect, Collins ADMITS to being an accessory to first degree murder, both before and after the fact. He only comes short of actually admitting the whole truth.

Collins stated that it was Davis who was seen running past the body dump site on the night of the police stake out.

Collins has yet to say anything that would implicate Thoresen in any of the murders.

 

[Winward1]

You write posts where you show a bunch of knives and talk about how Collins owned a knife (gee, a young guy in a small town in Michigan owned a knife? Wow!) and, in a fit of pure speculation you suggest that there just isn’t the DNA to connect him to a knife or the knives in question.

And you take up a lot of space while doing little more than making a feeble attempt to smear Collins who, though argued to have been of above average intelligence, had no priors or a history of violence, was convicted on what could not sound more like scientific quackery and in a case that for him was an unlikely scenario (smart guy in small town wherein there’s a massive manhunt going on yet he drives victim around on his motorcycle in the center of town in broad daylight before torturing her in his cop relative’s basement, which is followed by cops threatening witnesses if they don’t agree to lie and the star witness changing her story through she can’t explain why. I’ll tell you why. The cops threatened her, too.)

Meanwhile, I introduce a guy who fit Collin’s description, whose wife convinced a jury that he brutally murdered three people and was so dangerous said jury decided (in 1970 no less) that she was justified in shooting him in the back five times, a man FBI documents reveal the FBI believed beat and stabbed Valerie Percy to death in Illinois, who owned the same motorcycle a witness described before changing her story (this while cops were threatening another witness that he better lie about Collins or else.)

And we know that police thought that the killer returned to the scene of the crime Collins was convicted of but it was proven during the trial not to be Collins.

Meanwhile, it’s obvious (see my recent post) that the Zodiac-like slayings of Morrison and Means share unique similarities to the Kalom murder and a source in what is clearly propaganda (poorly made at that) also meant to smear Collins, is another liar. You can tell from her age and the fact that, even half a century later, the propaganda makers do not state her last name. The question is, why would anyone be doing this a half century later?

 

[Richard]

What connects Collins to his hunting knife is the statements that Arnold Davis gave to police investigators at about the time they were searching Collins' apartment (July or August 1969). Davis stated that he saw Collins place the knife in his (Davis) dresser drawer shortly after police had begun questioning and watching them.

Davis identified the knife as belonging to Collins and allowed police to take it. It was tested for blood and fingerprints and found to have been thoroughly cleaned. Davis claimed that he had never touched it.

I never stated that Collins could not be connected to the knife by DNA. DNA was not known in 1969. However, if you read my post, you will see that I suggested that the knife's sheath might still be tested for DNA today.

Collins was connected to two of the murders through his DNA being found on two of the victims. But let us just speculate here and say that investigators traveled all the way up to Marquette Prison to LIE about the DNA results to Collins --- Why would he, in response to that information, change his 44 year long denials of ever knowing those women, come out with his new story? A story that links himself to both the murders of Beineman and Kalom? Is he part of the vast conspiracy too?

All of your theory regarding Thoresen being the "real killer" is based on pure speculation. You speculate that similarities between geographically separated crimes were committed by only that one person, and that besides murders in Wisconsin, Illinois, and California, he was also the killer of Karen Sue Beineman and all the other Michigan victims.

You have yet to prove that he was ever in Michigan at the time and place of any murders.

If Thoresen was involved in any of the murders which Collins is suspected of, why didn't Collins name him as the actual killer in 2013, instead of laying the blame on Arnold Davis?

It is also speculation on your part to guess the age of the woman in the interview, and on what her reasons for not revealing her last name are. Nothing she says - or does not say - changes the fact that John Norman Collins is a convicted murderer.

 

[Skigirl]

Your bias is showing in your writing. "Even if the following turned out to be true." You're questioning whether someone who didn't know these guys wouldn't think their basic descriptions were strikingly similar when they were...height, hair color, hair styles, build. Not only that, I've supplied the photos that prove they would have looked similar to people who didn't know either man.

You also ignore witness descriptions of a car seen driven by the suspect at the last sighting of the first Michigan victim and those of three witnesses at Lake Berryessa, a crime with to indicate that Thoresen was responsible.

You also ignore news reports from the Beineman case that report that the suspect was seen on a Honda like Thoresen owned, which along with the car explains why this massive search turned up squat regrinding ANY Michigan suspect who owned such vehicles.

Otherwise, what do you know about Thoresen? Three books contain a lot of information on them. How many of them have you read?

Meanwhile, check out, "Pam" who based on what she's saying here had to have been about 70 when this interview with her was conducted. Does she look anywhere near 70? (Her interview starts at the 26:44 mark.) Why is there no last name for "Pam?" Because she's lying. She never knew John Collins. This is what propaganda looks like:

Thanks, that video was interesting. Although I lived in the area for years, I'd never seen a couple of those locations and hadn't seen most of the archival footage. Yes, Pam definitely looks like a very attractive 70 year old who takes good care of herself and may have a little help with cosmetic procedures. I wouldn't let them use my last name in her position, either. Who wants to anger JNC?

 

[Winward1]

Speaking of evidence. I have noted the circumstantial evidence that connects the Morrison Means murders to Alice Kalom's murder.

People here might want to look at the "Muskegon Mixer" handwriting evidence that police believe Jane Mixer's killer left at her school and compare it to the handwriting in the letter that was written to Mary Means' mother.

They also might note the multiple underlines in it and compare that to Zodiac's dripping Pen mailing and the multiple underlines that appear in the Means letter.

By the way, police also reportedly "lost" the Muskegon Mixer handwriting sample. Gee, I wonder why.

Here's a copy of it that compares it Gary Leiterman's handwriting.





340-Symbol Card

 

[Richard]

Speaking of evidence. I have noted the circumstantial evidence that connects the Morrison Means murders to Alice Kalom's murder.

People here might want to look at the "Muskegon Mixer" handwriting evidence that police believe Jane Mixer's killer left at her school and compare it to the handwriting in the letter that was written to Mary Means' mother.

They also might note the multiple underlines in it and compare that to Zodiac's dripping Pen mailing and the multiple underlines that appear in the Means letter.

By the way, police also reportedly "lost" the Muskegon Mixer handwriting sample. Gee, I wonder why.

Here's a copy of it that compares it Gary Leiterman's handwriting.

340-Symbol Card

I must be missing something here.

I see no similarity in the two brief examples you post. And I see no underlining at all in the letter which you describe as having "multiple underlines".

Are you suggesting that Gary Leiterman was the Zodiac, the killer of Debbie Means, the killer of Jane Mixer, and the killer of Alice Kalom? You mention all of them in your post.

 

[Richard]

Michigan investigators believed that the "Coed Murders" which took place between 1967 and 1969 were connected to each other for various reasons. The murders in Michigan which were officially included in this "series" were:

Mary Terese Fleszar, 19, of Willis, Body found 7 August 1967
Joan Elspeth Schell, 20, of Plymouth, Body found 5 July 1968
Jane Louise Mixer, 23, of Muskegon, Body found 21 March 1969
Maralynn Skelton, 16, of Romulus, Body found 25 March 1969
Dawn Louise Basom, 13, of Ypsilanti, Body found 16 April 1969
Alice Elizabeth Kalom, 21, of Portage, Body found 9 June 1969
Karen Sue Beineman, 18, of Grand Rapids, Body found 26 July 1969

While the young women were from different home towns, all were living in the Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti, Michigan area at the time of their deaths, and all of their bodies were found in close geographical proximity to each other.

Here are some of the factors which tend to connect these murders:

- All were young (13 - 23) white women who lived in the same college area.
- All were single, and were abducted while out walking alone.
- All were well dressed in nice clothes and wearing jewelry (most of them had earrings).
- Each victim was transported by vehicle to the site of their murder (motorcycle or automobile).
- Each body was dumped in a remote area, with no attempt to bury or hide it.
- All died violent, traumatic deaths at close range, although the actual methods varied (strangulation, shooting, stabbing, bludgeoning and combinations of these). Some bodies showed evidence of post mortem mutilation by knife.
- Evidence showed that some of the victims had been raped. In one case, it was believed that more than one person had taken part in the rape. All were believed to have been sexually abused.
- Each victim (with the exception of Mixer) had clothing cut or torn from them. Although fully clothed, some of Jane Mixer's clothing had been pulled down.
- Jewelry and clothing items were taken from most of the victims.
- Each victim was transported (after death) by vehicle, to a site different from where murdered.
- Some of the victims were connected in various ways, such as same work place, close proximity of dorm or apartment, and similarity of dress or habits.
--------------------------------

There were a few differences which set some victims apart from others.

Jane Mixer's case just did not match in as many factors as others. She was thought by some of the investigators at the time to be a separate case from the rest. She was a bit older than the others (a graduate student) and she was not out walking on the day of her abduction. In fact, she had made arrangements for a shared ride to her home by telephone. She was, however, seen standing outside, alone waiting for her ride.

Jane Mixer was shot in the head, and apparently not raped or subjected to humiliation or torture, as other victims had been. Her body was placed in a cemetery, fully clothed, along with her belongings. Note also that her murder took place only four days before that of Dawn Basom - which appears as an anomaly in the timeline of all the others.

45 years later, in 2004, in a controversial trial involving DNA matching, Gary Leiterman was convicted of Jane Mixer's murder and sentenced to life in prison. He was not charged in any of the other Michigan Co-ed cases. He died in prison.

There were, in fact, other murders of young women which took place in Michigan during those years. However, most of them were solved and suspects developed, charged, and convicted. A few unsolved murders of that time frame could not be connected by investigators with enough similarities to the official "Coed" murders.

The Jane Mixer murder was solved/closed with the conviction of Gary Leiterman.

John Norman Collins was convicted in 1970 of the murder of Karen Sue Beineman. He was charged and indicted by grand jury in California for the murder of Roxie Ann Phillips (1 July 1969) but never extradited from Michigan for trial. He remains in prison in Michigan.

The other cases remain officially open and unsolved.

 

[Winward1]

You are missing something.

My last post was 478 words.

When I checked back today, it had been reduced to 111 words.

So it would appear that what you're missing is 367 words.

I must be missing something here.

I see no similarity in the two brief examples you post. And I see no underlining at all in the letter which you describe as having "multiple underlines".

Are you suggesting that Gary Leiterman was the Zodiac, the killer of Debbie Means, the killer of Jane Mixer, and the killer of Alice Kalom? You mention all of them in your post.

 

[Richard]

John Norman Collins and Arnold "Arnie" Davis - EMU Ski Club - 1967.


Joan Schell, on the evening of 30 June 1968, was waiting for a bus to Ann Arbor from McKenny Union on Eastern Michigan University's campus in Ypsilanti.

Joan was picked up by three young men in a red vehicle with a black convertible top, identified by one witness as a Pontiac, and by another as a Ford. In that car, along with Collins, who was wearing a green EMU tee-shirt, was Arnold "Arnie" Davis, a close friend, and an unidentified third person whom the other men refused or were unable to identify.

Collins offered Joan a ride to Ann Arbor in his own car, and the two other guys were sent on their way. This information was discovered in a police interrogation of Arnold Davis after Collins was arrested for the murder of Karen Sue Beineman a year later.

Arnie, who lived in a second floor room across the landing from John Norman Collins, said that in the early morning hours of July 1st, Collins returned to the house with Joan's red shoulder bag. Arnie asked him about it and he replied, "She ran from my car and left her purse behind."

Davis reported that Collins rifled through her wallet and examined her driver's license and exclaimed, "The lied to me. She told me she was married."

Joan Schell's nude body was found a week later on the outskirts of Ann Arbor. At the very least, Arnie Davis had information which might have prevented the slayings of other women if only he had come forward with what he knew...

In 1969, fearing an arrest on burglary charges and other unspecified charges against him, Arnold Davis was given full immunity by Washtenaw County prosecutors on the condition that he testify against his friend Collins in open court. He was extensively interviewed by police about the Joan Schell case as well as the Karen Sue Beineman case.

With great reluctance, Davis testified in the Karen Sue Beineman case murder trial but was prevented by prosecutors from making any statements in court regarding any of the other cases, to prevent a mistrial being declared.

Arnold Davis graduated from Eastern Michigan University in 1970 with a Bachelor of Business Administration Degree and moved to the eastern US.

In 2013, John Norman Collins accused Arnold Davis of being the "real killer" of Karen Sue Beineman. He also claimed that Arnold Davis had a "twin brother" (he didn't) who drove a red Pontiac like the one described in the Schell case. It has been suggested that these accusations by Collins were an attempt at revenge against his former friend for testifying against him at his trial.

LINK:

Did John Norman Collins Work Alone?

 

[Richard]

In addition to the previously mentioned similarities, another factor which linked at least the last four Coed murders was that each victim was found to have a piece of cloth (cut from her own clothing) shoved back into her mouth.

 

[Richard]

In 1988, some 19 years after the arrest and charging of John Norman Collins, a Detroit TV show "Kelly & Company" did an interview with Collins and others involved in the investigation and trial. Here is a 44 minute video of that show:

 

[Richard]

Andrew Manuel: Possible accomplice/associate of Collins?



Andrew Manuel and John Norman Collins worked together at an auto parts manufacturing firm. They became friends and although Manuel was married, he soon moved into the same Ypsilanti boarding house where Collins and Arnold Davis lived.

Collins and Manuel were involved in a number of Washtenaw County break-ins and thefts. In June 1969, they rented a travel trailer together using a stolen identification and checkbook, stating that they were going to Canada. Instead, they drove cross country to California, towing the trailer behind Collins's silver 1968 Oldsmobile.

They parked the trailer behind the home of Manuel's grandparents in Salinas, California. Living in the trailer, they spent a few weeks in the area, during which time the murder of Roxie Ann Phillips occurred. Collins was subsequently linked to and charged with her murder.

After detail cleaning the trailer of all fingerprints and abandoning it in place, Collins and Manuel returned to Ypsilanti, Michigan in mid July 1969.

Karen Sue Beineman was abducted and murdered on 23 July 1969. When police began to make enquiries in the area, Andrew Manuel fled the state, pawning a number of stolen items, including firearms to finance his bus trip back to Salinas, CA. From Salinas, he proceeded south and east to Arizona where he was eventually traced and captured by the FBI. The FBI could enter the case based on the theft and interstate transportation of the camping trailer.

Prosecutors in Washtenaw County, Michigan offered Manuel a plea deal. They would only charge him with theft of the trailer if he promised to testify against Collins. Receiving only a short four month jail sentence with probation, Manuel again took off - only to be recaptured and put in jail. At Collins' trial, he played dumb and was of little use to prosecutors.

In later years, Manuel served two separate terms in Federal Prison for crimes unrelated to the Michigan murders.

Was Manuel involved in any of the abductions and murders that Collins is suspected of? He certainly was closely associated with Collins, and he admitted to disposing of Collins' pistol when he was fleeing the state in late July 1969.

Why did he flee Michigan so suddenly after Karen Sue Beineman's murder? What was his involvement in the other murders?

 

[Richard]

John Norman Collins was at the center of a series of high profile homicides, known as the "Michigan Murders," that rocked the Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti areas in 1967-1969. He was convicted for one of the murders, though it is suspected that he was responsible for just about all the others.

LINK:

These 10 Famous Homicides In Michigan Will Never Be Forgotten

 

[Richard]

Some photos, news articles, and commentary on this case:

https://www.pinterest.com/sjkegler/john-norman-collinschapman/

 

[Richard]

The Victims (Part One):

Mary Fleszar

Joan Schell

Maralynn Skelton

Jane Mixer

Dawn Basom

 

[Richard]

The Victims (Part Two):

Alice Kalom

Roxie Ann Phillips

Karen Sue Beineman

 

[Ozoner]

The Victims (Part One):

Mary Fleszar

Joan Schell

Maralynn Skelton

Jane Mixer

Dawn Basom

It's already known that Jane Mixer was killed by a different person. Gary Leiterman was convicted of her murder in 2005.

The evidence against Collins is overwhelming for most of the murders, but let's not mix in (no pun intended) unrelated cases.

 

[Richard]

It's already known that Jane Mixer was killed by a different person. Gary Leiterman was convicted of her murder in 2005.

The evidence against Collins is overwhelming for most of the murders, but let's not mix in (no pun intended) unrelated cases.

This is true, and I have mentioned it in previous posts. But Jane Mixer's murder has always been mentioned in connection with all of the other murders, and she deserves to be remembered as well.

Collins was only convicted of murdering Karen Sue Beineman. Although he is a prime suspect in the murders of others, they remain officially unsolved. It is quite possible - even likely - that he worked with others in the course of the murders - just as he did in his theft and burglary capers.

I do not know that any connection between Collins and Leiterman was ever suggested or proven. It would appear that their crimes were not connected.

 

[Ozoner]

This is true, and I have mentioned it in previous posts. But Jane Mixer's murder has always been mentioned in connection with all of the other murders, and she deserves to be remembered as well.

Collins was only convicted of murdering Karen Sue Beineman. Although he is a prime suspect in the murders of others, they remain officially unsolved. It is quite possible - even likely - that he worked with others in the course of the murders - just as he did in his theft and burglary capers.

I do not know that any connection between Collins and Leiterman was ever suggested or proven. It would appear that their crimes were not connected.

Jane Mixer's murder was always mentioned in connection with the other murders because some people believed that it was part of the same series of murders (despite significant differences).

 

[Richard]

Jane Mixer's murder was always mentioned in connection with the other murders because some people believed that it was part of the same series of murders (despite significant differences).

It is possible that one or more of the so called "Michigan Coed Murders" were committed by a separate perpetrator who was not connected with the main killer(s).

In fact, the Jane Mixer murder would be a case in point - as would be the murders of Margaret Phillips, Gloria Murphy, and Eileen Adams, which were also tentatively (in 1969) suggested as part of the "Coed" pattern.

The murder of Margaret Phillips, a 25 year old University of Michigan Graduate Student, was charged to a recently released convict named Ernest Bishop, who confessed to killing her and led investigators to the pistol he used. It was proven conclusively that Bishop committed the murder, but he was found innocent by reason of insanity and confined for a few years in a mental hospital, before being released again on the public.

The murder of Gloria Murphy, 19, was committed by her husband, James Murphy (a U of M student) who stabbed her over 34 times. He was arrested, charged, and tried for her murder, but he was found Not Guilty by reason of insanity and sent to a mental hospital - only to be released a few years later.

The murder of Eileen Adams, 14, of Toledo, Ohio was also considered by some to be linked to the Michigan cases. Her body was found just 30 miles south of Ypsilanti, dumped at the side of a rural road. The case remained unsolved for many decades until Robert Bowman was arrested, tried and convicted of torturing and killing her.

Each of these killers was considered as a possible suspect in the other Michigan cases, but ruled out for one reason or another. The logic which could have eliminated one as a suspect might be that he could not possibly have committed one or more of the "series", therefor he could not have committed another of them.

Considering each unsolved case individually, rather than as a concrete connection to a series, one might reconsider each of those known killers as a possible suspect. For example, Robert Bowman (killer of Eileen Adams) might be considered a possible suspect in the murder of Dawn Basom because of certain close similarities in those two cases. James Murphy might be considered a suspect in a case (or cases) involving multiple stab wounds to the victim.

The unsolved 1969 murder of Betsy Aardsma in the Penn State University library could also be connected in some ways to the Michigan Coed Murders. She was a 1969 graduate of the University of Michigan and had been in the area of all the Coed cases at the time of the murders. She was from the same home town as Margaret Phillips.

Collins was in jail at the time of Betsy Aardsma's murder, so he obviously did not kill her. When Pennsylvania investigators came to Michigan to look for possible clues, Michigan authorities were very careful not to allow anything to interfere with or damage their case against Collins.

LINK:

Murder in Ann Arbor | Ann Arbor District Library

A 39-year mystery: The hunt for a killer