MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #4

[MIMOMMY]

Other valid questions - how long can semen stay on someone's skin (thigh) while they are submerged in water?

Why was there no sign of semen anywhere else in the room? i.e., sheets? bed? etc.

How do one's arms stay placed behind their back while submerged if not bound? the same with her feet?

I believe and I have from the beginning that this was a planned and calculated killing. The individual/individuals were well aware that she was home alone - whether she invited them over because her roommates were gone, or someone had been watching her and waiting. I wonder if certain acts were not committed in the apartment at all? Or maybe in the common living area's and not her bedroom?

It's clear this was not staged to look like an accident - and I think the robbery theory is bogus as well.

 

[georgiasblu]

So what you are saying is that she got on her own personal social media and posted "I love you daddy" to keep the peace with her mother and siblings? Why not just make an appearance at family events as needed? Why go in with JN and spend significant money on a laptop for this individual she is just "keeping" the peace with? Does hatred for someone cause you to spend significant money on a gift? Or do you just go and buy a hoodie and call it gift given?

That's what I said. 😉

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

I hate to raise the question, but could JN have been "working on the side"? Backpage? CL? SugarDaddy?

Did she have a burner phone?

I think not. She worked at Walmart, went to school and was actively looking for extra Christmas money by working for a man she disliked.

How can any of us rule out what Julia was involved with? Is it known for a fact that she wasn't?

 

[georgiasblu]

Other valid questions - how long can semen stay on someone's skin (thigh) while they are submerged in water?

Why was there no sign of semen anywhere else in the room? i.e., sheets? bed? etc.

How do one's arms stay placed behind their back while submerged if not bound? the same with her feet?

I believe and I have from the beginning that this was a planned and calculated killing. The individual/individuals were well aware that she was home alone - whether she invited them over because her roommates were gone, or someone had been watching her and waiting. I wonder if certain acts were not committed in the apartment at all? Or maybe in the common living area's and not her bedroom?

It's clear this was not staged to look like an accident - and I think the robbery theory is bogus as well.

I too would like to know about the semen degradation and being submerged in water for almost 48 hours. Considering the cut off yoga pants and tee shirt remains were found on the bathroom floor , my guess is that the assault occurred in the bathroom. The fact there was no semen on sheets or on the bed says it's unlikely it was a consensual act. Did she have sex in the living area then dress only to be attacked? I would hope the pd checked the living area. That scenario doesn't ring true.
I wonder why the ypsi pd kept that info from the family? Is that normal?

 

[FindHG]

The dumpster belonged to the apartment complex. It was in the parking lot (I believe it was near the rear of her building near the front parking lot) and had an area in front of it marked as a no parking zone or a sign on the dumpster saying no parking. It was a private tow.

Thank you, Trojan. Any idea how she was able to get her car back, the process, payment records, who towed her car? The kind of person who tows people usually know things about the neighborhood, and the people they tow, depending on the circumstances.

I too would like to know about the semen degradation and being submerged in water for almost 48 hours. Considering the cut off yoga pants and tee shirt remains were found on the bathroom floor , my guess is that the assault occurred in the bathroom. The fact there was no semen on sheets or on the bed says it's unlikely it was a consensual act. Did she have sex in the living area then dress only to be attacked? I would hope the pd checked the living area. That scenario doesn't ring true.
I wonder why the ypsi pd kept that info from the family? Is that normal?

RBBM

Good points, georgiasblu, thanks.

Is what we've learned about that family normal? Between them and LE, my bets on LE.

 

[MIMOMMY]

I too would like to know about the semen degradation and being submerged in water for almost 48 hours. Considering the cut off yoga pants and tee shirt remains were found on the bathroom floor , my guess is that the assault occurred in the bathroom. The fact there was no semen on sheets or on the bed says it's unlikely it was a consensual act. Did she have sex in the living area then dress only to be attacked? I would hope the pd checked the living area. That scenario doesn't ring true.
I wonder why the ypsi pd kept that info from the family? Is that normal?

If the assault occurred in the bathroom - we must question then - Did she let them in? Did they follow her in? What about the disarray of her bedroom? Did she perhaps have a visitor earlier that night? Were there signs of semen on the inside of her pants? ( I ask this because we know that she was not wearing panties )

 

[Spellbound]

If she disliked him so much then why post about her love for her on her own social media outlets?

Perhaps too many family members read her social postings and she felt it best to go along with the pretense.

And buying him a laptop as a Christmas gift.

Maybe twin sister and/or mom pushed her into buying the gift. To keep peace, she did just that. Julia isn't here to tell us why she made the "nice" gestures or if they were heartfelt. Victims are sometimes more swayed to keep up a pretense of caring than to completely turn away if it might cause loss of other family members. Perhaps Julia was more of this sort.

So what you are saying is that she got on her own personal social media and posted "I love you daddy" to keep the peace with her mother and siblings? Why not just make an appearance at family events as needed? Why go in with JN and spend significant money on a laptop for this individual she is just "keeping" the peace with? Does hatred for someone cause you to spend significant money on a gift? Or do you just go and buy a hoodie and call it gift given?

That seems a bit far fetched to me - especially for a young adult. I know that when I was that age I did not have the best relationship with my parent's and simply moved away and spent as little time as possible. Most young adults do this to some extent anyways when they move away to college.

We can disagree, Mimommy, but I do understand how such a situation comes to be in an abusive environment. If she truly loved her mom and sister, she may have gone along with whatever they wanted/needed of her to not lose them. Going against JT may have caused mom and sister to be angry with her and she did not want to lose them. I do think Julia cared deeply for Mom and sisters, and other extended family members. She may have told someone at one time, felt rebuffed or scoffed at, and just went along from then on with whatever she felt she needed to do to keep peace in the family.

As for Julia's relationship with JT, I can only go by what I read here and who I feel is most credible with their comments.

 

[SapphireSteel]

So what you are saying is that she got on her own personal social media and posted "I love you daddy" to keep the peace with her mother and siblings? Why not just make an appearance at family events as needed? Why go in with JN and spend significant money on a laptop for this individual she is just "keeping" the peace with? Does hatred for someone cause you to spend significant money on a gift? Or do you just go and buy a hoodie and call it gift given?

That seems a bit far fetched to me - especially for a young adult. I know that when I was that age I did not have the best relationship with my parent's and simply moved away and spent as little time as possible. Most young adults do this to some extent anyways when they move away to college.

You speak from personal experience.

The same experience may not have been true for poor Julie.

Some of these father/stepdaughter relationships get very weird indeed. If he was abusing her from childhood there's every chance she still loved him. Children do that, they blame themselves for the Adults behavior, and canny abusers encourage this thinking.

If the relationship was as sick as it seems it may have been, I can imagine the victim doing all sorts of strange things to appease the abuser.

 

[georgiasblu]

If the assault occurred in the bathroom - we must question then - Did she let them in? Did they follow her in? What about the disarray of her bedroom? Did she perhaps have a visitor earlier that night? Were there signs of semen on the inside of her pants? ( I ask this because we know that she was not wearing panties )

Didn't the police think she was wearing panties and the perp took them?
Let me clarify, i believe the clothes were cut away in bathroom. Whatever happened and I don't believe consensual sex was part of her night, she was overpowered quickly and gagged and bound. Where that occurred, I don't know. The positioning is odd but we know they have crime scene photos so I'm not questioning the positioning of Julia in the tub.

 

[Skigirl]

How do one's arms stay placed behind their back while submerged if not bound? the same with her feet?
.

Sorry for being graphic but there is no way to answer in a way that is not. The only way I know of for the arms and feet to be in the position they were described in the affidavit is for rigor mortis to have set in before the ties were removed. LE/FBI have said that the killer took his time. I believe that one of the reasons they are saying that is because the killer stayed in the apartment long enough for rigor mortis to have set in before he removed the ties. That would mean at least two hours, perhaps a tad less if the water in the tub was cold.

 

[Skigirl]

Didn't the police think she was wearing panties and the perp took them?
Let me clarify, i believe the clothes were cut away in bathroom. Whatever happened and I don't believe consensual sex was part of her night, she was overpowered quickly and gagged and bound. Where that occurred, I don't know. The positioning is odd but we know they have crime scene photos so I'm not questioning the positioning of Julia in the tub.

I don't know what police thought. When I read the affidavit, I was thinking that many people don't wear underwear with yoga pants and that it sounded like she was dressed for a quiet evening or morning at home, not for a date or company.

 

[georgiasblu]

I don't know what police thought. When I read the affidavit, I was thinking that many people don't wear underwear with yoga pants and that it sounded like she was dressed for a quiet evening or morning at home, not for a date or company.

As someone who works in yoga pants I hate panties under them and go without. In the affidavit it was stated the police believed the panties were taken along with pillowcase and keys.

 

[Spellbound]

Sorry for being graphic but there is no way to answer in a way that is not. The only way I know of for the arms and feet to be in the position they were described in the affidavit is for rigor mortis to have set in before the ties were removed. LE/FBI have said that the killer took his time. I believe that one of the reasons they are saying that is because the killer stayed in the apartment long enough for rigor mortis to have set in before he removed the ties. That would mean at least two hours, perhaps a tad less if the water in the tub was cold.

Yes, Skigirl, I was thinking the same thing. I could not come up with a different way this would occur.

as for the underwear, if Julia was dressed in what she would wear to bed, she may not have worn undies for that reason. I don't recall if a bra was mentioned.

 

[FindHG]

As someone who works in yoga pants I hate panties under them and go without. In the affidavit it was stated the police believed the panties were taken along with pillowcase and keys.

Interesting about working in yoga pants, doesn't sound familiar to me, though I've been wearing them as leggings for a while now and don't do yoga. Appreciate you considering it too, gb. I read and reread that part too.

It seems LE may have had reason to believe she had them on before they were taken. I had the same thought, how would they know she had them on at all? The additional evidence of the seminal fluid, rape potentially would also render the panties more of a souvenir. My heart goes cold typing that. I'm so sorry Trojan and 4ist.

 

[georgiasblu]

If I remember correctly, Julia told her sisters at lunch that she planned to study for a final/s. Her attire that evening sounds like good study clothing.

 

[MIMOMMY]

"Julia was wearing no underwear, nor was any underwear recovered that investigators suspected julia was wearing just prior to her death." They have never stated they were removed from the scene.

 

[Skigirl]

I read about a case fairly recently in which a pizza delivery person delivered food to one apartment, and then checked the doors of other apartments until he found one that was unlocked, went in, and sexually assaulted the apartment's occupant. I wonder if she was in her room studying with both her room door and the outer door of the apartment unlocked, either because she left didn't think to lock them or one of her roommates didn't lock the outer door on the way out.

 

[georgiasblu]

Sorry Skigirl, that was for MIMommy

 

[georgiasblu]

"Julia was wearing no underwear, nor was any underwear recovered that investigators suspected julia was wearing just prior to her death." They have never stated they were removed from the scene.

Beyond Niswender's missing pillow case, keys and underwear, as of November police had not located a purple rug that was originally at the scene of the crime when they arrived.




The above from MLive article dated September 2, 2015. There were actually two mentions of the missing underwear. The above is the second. Reporter maybe assumed?

 

[Trojan1966]

Thank you, Trojan. Any idea how she was able to get her car back, the process, payment records, who towed her car? The kind of person who tows people usually know things about the neighborhood, and the people they tow, depending on the circumstances.



RBBM

Good points, georgiasblu, thanks.

Is what we've learned about that family normal? Between them and LE, my bets on LE.

About the tow. Julia was very upset that night and called me to ask for advice. She explained the situation to me and said she had contacted the towing company and they wanted $ 200-300 from her to get her car back! I told her to calm down and see the apartment manager in the morning and explain that there were no places for you to park when you came home from work. As I recall, the management understood, contacted the towing company and she got her car back the following day.